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About dubious

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    Lost in the testinghall
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    Open world RPGs
  1. One final detail that seems to have been overlooked since my original post. "Mator Smash" did manage to load the ESM masters in the expected date/time stamp sequence, whereas xEdit did not. Core.esm 2000-04-22 09:00:00 Equipment.esm 2000-05-27 20:00:01 Extra Options.esm 2007-12-31 20:01:00 I assumed it used the xEdit API, but perhaps not? -Dubious-
  2. Oh, I KNOW how weird this is. That summary is correct. There isn't even a reason in the "Extra Options" plugin master file list, as it only requires "Core" to precede it. And so far only this one file seems to cause the change between the "selection" window and the "loaded" list (now that I understand how xEdit sorts). Somehow, at some point it is ignoring the date/time stamps of the selection sort before it loads the "masters" in favor of the order in the plugin in question even though that is not supposed to factor in. But ... if I reset EO's date/time stamp to place it immediately after Core as it seems to want, everything seems to work as expected. I've adjusted the sort position of the remaining PN files "masters" and resolved my initial problem. It's just that something in the EO file that shouldn't logically be affecting xEdit's load order, is. Which is why I wanted to bring it to your attention. Whatever that something is, it might apply to some other plugin. At this point I can understand if you want to just make a note of it in the bug tracker and wait to see if anything further comes to shed light on the matter. It's such a limited circumstance it doesn't warrant too much time in the scope of other more pressing priorities. It just the sort of thing that "bugs me", even though I know I have to let it go. -Dubious-
  3. That previous reply must be confusing, but I appear to have timed out of the window to edit it. The selection window presents the ESM files, in the same order as LOOT sorts them, within the criteria of xEdit: ESMs then ESPs. The "false ESM flagged" ESP files are sorted with the other ESPs. In particular, Equipment.esm comes immediately after Core.esm. The resulting load order in xEdit does not match the sort order in the selection window. In particular, "Extra Options.esm" comes immediately after Core instead of after Equipment. Hope that clears things up. -Dubious-
  4. No. Even the ESM extension files are not in the same sequence as the LOOT sort when they are presented in the selection window. Mostly they are, but there are some not related to PN- that are not in date/time sequence. Edit: Amend that. The ESMs are in the same sequence as in LOOT. I keep getting tripped up by "false ESM flagged" ESPs. -Dubious-
  5. The one after it loads the selected plugin and it's masters. I have noticed that sometimes the order presented for selection is different than my sorted game order, but that doesn't present a problem. The issue is solely that if the order of the master plugins once loaded doesn't match the game sorted sequence, it becomes impossible to use "sort masters" to reorder the plugin's masters to match the game sort order. -Dubious-
  6. GECK-PU Selection load order for "PN-" related: Core.esm Equipment.esm Cyberware.esp Rebalance.esp Extra Options.esm Rebalance Complete.esp All DLC.esp UPP.esp UPP-PN Patch.esp FYI: To save you having to look back thru the thread, this matches my LOOT sort order. -Dubious-
  7. No to MO. I use Wrye Flash for FNV. And I was reminded to close all other "load order aware" tools when using xEdit, so when I was testing this issue I made certain nothing else was open other than Windows Explorer and NoteTab Pro (for note taking). -Dubious-
  8. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. I'll be sure to pass that along. Here are the timestamps for the LOOT sorted respective files. This appears to be using the "Modified Date" in the file attributes. Usual PN- sort order by LOOT: Core.esm 2000-04-22 09:00:00 Equipment.esm 2000-05-27 20:00:01 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:50:45) Cyberware.esp (ESM flag) 2007-12-31 19:24:00 Rebalance.esp (ESM flag) 2007-12-31 20:00:00 Extra Options.esm 2007-12-31 20:01:00 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:52:51) Rebalance Complete.esp 2008-01-01 00:26:30 All DLC.esp 2008-01-01 01:22:00 UPP.esp 2016-06-12 15:56:36 UPP-PN Patch.esp 2016-06-12 15:56:36 Unfortunately in this case, xEdit load order for plugins (with no external change to the dates) does not indicate the file date it sorted upon. But assuming it is also using the "Modified Date" attribute, "Extra Options.esm" should still come after "Equipment.esm", instead of the following: Core.esm (2000-04-22 09:00:00) Extra Options.esm 2007-12-31 20:01:00 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:52:51) Equipment.esm 2000-05-27 20:00:01 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:50:45) So it appears we have an anomaly. Perhaps the assumption xEdit's using the "Modified Date" attribute is incorrect? The "created" date is the same for both the swapped files, but the "Accessed" date would put Equipment first. Looks like something else is involved, at least in this instance. -Dubious-
  9. Possibly I misunderstood, but changing the problematic plugin (the compatibility patch file) to an ESM didn't work out because it still it had errors when loading into xEdit with required masters in the wrong order, including the parent of the patch. Part of the problem is that two of the "masters" to the patch file are ESP files. Again the crux seems to be that xEdit is still obeying the plugin's master file sequence instead of the sorted one. The load errors disable any editing function. Appreciate the suggestion though. In the meantime I'll see if changing all the PN plugins into ESMs along with both the UPP files will enable getting everything manually sorted in order to load. But none of that is going to matter if the patch plugin is still ruling the load order into the wrong sequence for my purposes. -Dubious-
  10. Having a strange issue with the load order of the master files of a plugin in xEdit. Normally in my experience it loads the relevant plugin master files in the same sequence as they are sorted in my "Data" folder. But in a specific instance of a "compatibility patch" file, xEdit ignores the sorted order and loads in the order at the time the patch plugin was saved. Consequently in xEdit "sort masters" of the plugin does not see anything to change, and it's not possible to otherwise change the plugin masters sequence within xEdit to match the sorted order. And apparently just to compound the issue, Mator Smash loads the exact same plugin and related masters in yet a third sequence. The compatibility plugin in question is the Fallout New Vegas mod "Unofficial Patch Plus Project Nevada Patch" (UPP-PN Patch) by PushTheWinButton. I raised the issue with the author and he did not intentionally do anything to force a particular sequence of the Project Nevada plugins. He used the LO sort capability of "Mod Organizer", but I do not use it (Wrye Flash, LOOT, and manual installation instead). So, the issue seems to be some interaction between the MO sort when the patch was created, and xEdit or Mator Smash when they load it. Which is why I think it is appropriate for this thread. I want to be clear this is not related to the overall LO or the sort order of the game & DLC masters. It is not an issue with the PN plugins themselves. I have played almost 400 hours with the basic sort order without major incident. The only difference is the position of one PN plugin "Extra Options" (EO) when this plugin is loaded into either tool. The plugin is not "read only". Other plugins have successfully had their master files sorted in xEdit. This is the only instance where load order does not match the current sort order once loaded. OS is Win7SP2, 64-bit with FNV 4GB Patch applied, game is installed to the "E:" drive. LOOT based PN- sort order: Core.esm Equipment.esm Cyberware.esp (ESM flag) Rebalance.esp (ESM flag) Extra Options.esm Rebalance Complete.esp All DLC.esp UPP UPP-PN Patch TES5Edit load order for the "UPP-PN Patch" plugin (only): Core.esm Extra Options.esm Equipment.esm Cyberware.esp (ESM flag) Rebalance.esp (ESM flag) Rebalance Complete.esp All DLC.esp UPP UPP-PN Patch Mator Smash load order for the "UPP-PN Patch" plugin (only, in addition to the masters): Core.esm Equipment.esm Extra Options.esm Cyberware.esp (ESM flag) Rebalance.esp (ESM flag) Rebalance Complete.esp All DLC.esp UPP UPP-PN Patch Any idea why this is happening or how to correct it? -Dubious-
  11. Thanks. I've put together a "quick start" guide for other games in general: primarily focused on building the "Smash.All" settings for new games and supplementing with later information not covered in the tutorial video. In your "copious spare time" , do let me know if I got anything wrong. -Dubious-
  12. Clarification please. Previously in threads (here or on AKFMods; after going through both today I lost track) you stated that the game and official DLCs should not be selected when creating a "Smash Patch". Currently with v0.4.1, I can't get the "OK" button to enable on the initial "Plugins Selection" window (prior to Smash splash screen) unless I select the game and DLC ESM files for Fallout New Vegas. Later this seemed to hold true when actually selecting plugins for the patch itself after creating an "Smash.All" setting. Has that advice about ESMs changed? -Dubious-
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