Paid mods are now available on the workshop

[hazelwolf]

i kind of feel sorry for chesko he was invited into this paid "mod experiment" and he has been majorly burned and is even thinking about an exit from nexus https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ this was always going to happen is just a shame it happen to the author of my fav mod frostfall. I personally and selfishly hope that he releases frostfall 3.0 soon but I understand where is is coming from and if he wants to break that's up to him after all the mods are his creations and he can do whatever he wants with them.

At least Chesko's damage control seems to have kept the wolves at bay. Isoku on the other hand? He's been mostly silent on the matter and he's getting torn to shreds.

[TehKaoZ]

@Hazelwolf

 

Steam workshop has always been pretty bad, this event just gave those people a focus. But even the Nexus threads aren't much better (less bad language), Moderators must be working full throttle at this point.

[Saerileth]

I don't have anything new to add to the discussion of whether or not paid mods are a good thing (those who have seen the updates on my mod pages can probably guess which side of the fence I sit on), but there is one thing that I feel should be said.

 

I see a lot of comments along the line of "paying for mods that only add a crap piece of armor / weapons / other visuals is ********, but mods like Frostfall and Wet & Cold are totally worth it because they add new systems to the game". Now, I kind of see the point when talking about quest mods, seeing as they add several hours of additional gameplay depending on the size of the mod. But with gameplay mods? How are they more worthwhile than cosmetic mods? Both add something new to the game, be it new features or a pretty 3D model. Note that I am not arguing whether or not it makes sense to pay money for cosmetic effects, that is a choice every user needs to make for himself and it really comes down to personal preference. Some people don't care about the appearance of their character's armour and weapons, others do. I merely object to the idea that visual mods are inherently not worth anything at all and that anyone charging for them is a money-grubbing basterd. Because let me tell you, creating 3D artwork (even just a retexture of Cabal/aMidianBorn quality) is probably more work than some script mods I could mention. I just spent the last 3 months modelling, rigging and animating a single character for a video game, and I'm not even done yet. This is by the way the reason why only big game companies produce epic AAA games these days, the sheer amount of work hours and artists required to produce the assets is staggering.

 

One example that is getting a lot of negative feedback at the moment is the Shadowscale Armour that went up with the release of the new platform. Regardless of what people think of Valve, the mod authors in question or the price tag attached, the mesh itself is very high quality and looks to be professionally produced (in fact I get the feeling that Valve hired a team of artists to create it so they could use it as advertisement for the curated workshop). Comparing this mod to Immersive Armours is ludicrous, half of the meshes in Immersive Armours are amateur work and the rest are more or less successfully cobbled together from vanilla assets. And it shows. I'm not trying to bash the author's efforts in any way, his hard work is available for free after all and you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. But there's a difference between a mod author's best efforts and professionally produced assets using professional software, and I don't see why people claim the latter shouldn't be worth any money. It takes a lot of time, training and skill to produce something like the Shadowscale Armour, so even if you decide that you would never purchase an armour mod, at least give credit to the artist for their superb work.

[hazelwolf]

@Hazelwolf

 

Steam workshop has always been pretty bad, this event just gave those people a focus. But even the Nexus threads aren't much better (less bad language), Moderators must be working full throttle at this point.

Oh I'm under no delusions as to the quality of random steam users. The Nexus at least has a degree of collective experience with modding beyond just pressing a subscribe button until the game breaks.

 

Which has merely resulted in a more creative form of protest (I admit I got a bit of a chuckle out of 'Beth')

 

Which no doubt actually makes it all the more hurtful as what should be the more dedicated part of the community turns on their own. Oddly enough, though, I reckon the donate buttons have been pressed far more in the past 24 hours than they have for months before now.

Edited April 24, 2015 by hazelwolf

[TehKaoZ]

@Saerileth

 

Mod authors certainly do deserve to be paid. The controversy generated has to do with the system valve has in place for it. Of course you will get that mob of angry townsfolk with torches and pitchforks who don't think before commenting and accuse modder's of being greedy

[Teabag86]

I can fully appreciate the allure to work with Bethesda / Valve that Chesko and Isoku would have felt.

I also have no problem compensating mod authors if I think a mod deserves it.

But not everyone is in a position to do so and I am against locking content behind a paywall.

 

My biggest gripe with all of this is threefold.

The reaction from the community towards mod authors has been appalling - murder and rape threats on Isoku's family! WTF!

The way this has been handled by Valve / Steam - how could they not foresee this reaction and complications. Or did they not care?

The future of mods for the next series of ESO games....

 

I think I'll be taking a break from Skyrim for a while and playing some of the dozen or so other games that have been sitting on my PC for the last 12 months that I'm yet to start.

[vidalia]

Some good points from a mod author's perspective (Darkfox)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPnhh4oDpGs

[GrantSP]

I am sickened beyond belief over the extent of vitriol aimed at these mod authors.

Have you seen the number of 1 post users mercilessly flaming these poor people on the Nexus? Where are the moderators on that damn site.

I have personally reported more users to them in this time period than in the last ten years, disgusting!

 

Yes, this is the 'net' and we know it happens, but I have been amazed at the ferocity. Time for a holiday I feel. Until this all calms down, I may just grab a bottle and curl up on the floor, rocking gently... back and forth, back and forth.

 

One last comment on the whole legal aspect side of things.

Regardless of the licenses you impose on any mod you make, if you need to fight a company like Valve or Bethesda, even if you win... you lose.

They have endless amounts of cash set aside for legal fights. Take note of Chesko's comment about the removal of his mods from the Steam Workshop. Valve say: "sure we will take them down, if we are legally compelled to do so!" End result, the mods will stay up and Valve wins.

[EssArrBee]

Apollodown looks to be upset about SkyUI 5.0. He has hidden all his mods in protest.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33s0g8/i_have_hidden_all_of_my_mods/

 

 

From the post.

 

 

Beyond that, I am afraid that there will be users who do not understand that the earlier, "free" versions of SkyUI would be fine to use with my mods. I am afraid they will feel the need to purchase SkyUI 5.0 in order to use my work. I think this is unacceptable.

I understand that position. I'm not sure I agree with it though. There aren't many nexus users that will be seeking out SkyUI on Steam after grabbing Apollodown's mods when it's by far the most popular mod on the nexus. I'm just happy that someone got schlangster to update the mod regardless of how they did it.

[Ganda]

So far all I can see is Valve's greed and modders getting screwed. The end user will pirate mods (yes this will happen, I have already found them all), Valve will get the money and screw over modders (see: Chesko, started on day 1) which will get next to nothing once they find out they've delivered all they've done to Valve and users are pirating their mods.

 

I know that no one really knows how to react to this and everyone is struggling with it in their own way, but it IS real and here to stay. Just hope it happens like I said and nexus implements ad-based revenue (an ad appearing while you are downloading doesn't even impede you in any way and is much better than the youtube system).

 

To finish, a comment from a pirate that I found wonderful:

 

[WilliamImm]

I've updated EBQO's comment page with a new sticky explaining my position. In short, both motivation and dismotivation came from all this. Motifivation from the Nexus, dismotivation from SkyUI paywalling. Been trying to convience them to use the donation system instead of Steam monetizing. So far, it's been uphill to even get notice.

[GrantSP]

I've updated EBQO's comment page with a new sticky explaining my position. In short, both motivation and dismotivation came from all this. Motifivation from the Nexus, dismotivation from SkyUI paywalling. Been trying to convience them to use the donation system instead of Steam monetizing. So far, it's been uphill to even get notice.

I was following you in that thread, calmly trying to elicit at least some form of response. You should be commended for you even-handedness.

[EssArrBee]

I've updated EBQO's comment page with a new sticky explaining my position. In short, both motivation and dismotivation came from all this. Motifivation from the Nexus, dismotivation from SkyUI paywalling. Been trying to convience them to use the donation system instead of Steam monetizing. So far, it's been uphill to even get notice.

In regards to your sticky. You probably don't have to do much to update the mod other than reviewing the current update. *wink*wink*

[Neovalen]

Apollodown looks to be upset about SkyUI 5.0. He has hidden all his mods in protest.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33s0g8/i_have_hidden_all_of_my_mods/

 

 

From the post.

I understand that position. I'm not sure I agree with it though. There aren't many nexus users that will be seeking out SkyUI on Steam after grabbing Apollodown's mods when it's by far the most popular mod on the nexus. I'm just happy that someone got schlangster to update the mod regardless of how they did it.

This conversation with a SkyUI developer really showed me how they feel.

 

Warning! Profanity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33r0r9/a_genuine_appeal_to_the_true_sons_of_modding_the/cqnxye5?context=3

 

The SkyUI mod comment thread is also pretty bad to look at.

[kryptopyr]

Well, I'm beginning to agree.  The 'community' on Nexus is really starting to show it's true colors.  Not that mod users have ever been particularly appreciative, but these attacks on mod authors are a terrible reflection on what this 'community' really stands for.  Honestly, I'm not sure I really want much part of that community anymore.