SKYRIMLE Optimized Vanilla Textures (by tony971)

[fireundubh]

Edit : And if anyone does not accept CCNA's word as a BGS Forum moderator in that linked topic, tell them to read the Creation Kit EULA, its all in there ( same as it was in the Construction Set for Oblivion and Morrowind, Bethesda encouraging us to mod is beneficial to them because it increases the longevity / life expectancy of the game, and attracts far more customers buying the game as a result of seeing all the things modders have created for the game ).

He doesn't say anything about giving away DLC content for free, which is what was being discussed.

 

If Bethesda allows DLC textures to be passed around freely, what's stopping anyone from uploading the DLC BSAs unmodified?

 

If we could do that, a lot of mods would need only DLC assets and not have to require DLC plugins as masters.

 

I asked Gstaff, the global community manager at Bethesda, for the official word on whether modders can distribute optimized textures, higher-poly meshes, or even complete BSAs from the DLC.

[hellanios]

Will you consider it for STEP?

[alt3rn1ty]

He doesn't say anything about giving away DLC content for free, which is what was being discussed.

 

If Bethesda allows DLC textures to be passed around freely, what's stopping anyone from uploading the DLC BSAs unmodified?

 

If we could do that, a lot of mods would need only DLC assets and not have to require DLC plugins as masters.

 

I asked Gstaff, the global community manager at Bethesda, for the official word on whether modders can distribute optimized textures, higher-poly meshes, or even complete BSAs from the DLC.

 

All textures have to be modified, if they were unmodified uploads that would be grounds for banning them

Same applies to any assets like meshes from the original files, you can only upload them as part of your mod if you have in some way modified them.

 

Requiring plugins as masters, I do it with my mod, but if I were to release them as loose textures I would just specify in the description that the relevant DLCs are required .. They are not going to work in game without them

 

 

Also consider all the texture replacers for Oblivions Shivering Isles expansion ( for example CorePCs excellent Vibrant Textures which has a Shivering Isles set / Bomret famous for his Detailled normal maps also did Bomret Texture Pack for Shivering Isles ), and Morrowinds Bloodmoon / Tribunal etc

There have been a lot of modified texture replacers for every part of each game and their respective DLCs with no take downs for the last 8 years to my knowledge.

Edited August 23, 2014 by alt3rn1ty

[TechAngel85]

We'll not be considering it for STEP right now. The process of learning to do this yourselves is valuable knowledge that can be used and applied on other mods.

[fireundubh]

 

Requiring plugins as masters, I do it with my mod, but if I were to release them as loose textures I would just specify in the description that the relevant DLCs are required .. They are not going to work in game without them

Which is not true. You don't need the DLC plugins for DLC content to work in the game as long as you have that content and a mod that adds that content to the game.

Edited August 23, 2014 by fireundubh

[EssArrBee]

Which is not true. You don't need the DLC plugins for DLC content to work in the game as long as you have a mod that adds that content to the game.

You're right, but if that mod added DLC to the game without the DLC being a master it would get banned. The whole thing with the White Phial Replacer is an example of that.

[fireundubh]

You're right, but if that mod added DLC to the game without the DLC being a master it would get banned. The whole thing with the White Phial Replacer is an example of that.

If Bethesda doesn't officially care about sharing unmodified DLC content sans plugins, there's no reason for Nexus or other sites to care.

 

And to what extent is modified content truly modified? Texture optimization aims to reduce file sizes without sacrificing fidelity. But what if you remove one byte from the file? Does that mean the texture is "modified" and therefore distributable? What if you change the file date? That changes the file header. Does that count as "modified"?

 

If the end result is the same texture, and not original content, then distributing that texture infringes on Bethesda's copyright unless Bethesda provides modders with a license (i.e., explicit permission) to do so.

 

That Nexus doesn't really apply its rules in any sort of consistent way is unsurprising, but Bethesda still needs to lay their rules out in more detail.

 

It would be great if Gstaff came back and said that all of the content in the BSAs was distributable.

[alt3rn1ty]

Fair points ( I did not know of the White Phial Replacer - What was the issue there ? )

 

Which is not true. You don't need the DLC plugins for DLC content to work in the game as long as you have that content and a mod that adds that content to the game.

If I am not providing a plugin plus meshes to load the textures .. Then in my mods case it is true. Yes ?

 

I see what you are saying, they could be made to work in a game that does not have the DLC. But then you are not using them with the game they came with ( the game + DLC ), so I can see them being banned in that case.

 

In my case, and Tony971 mod too, they are not going to work without the DLC.

 

If GStaff comes back with bad news in this regard .. There are an awful lot of mods out there need taking down.

Edited August 23, 2014 by alt3rn1ty

[alt3rn1ty]

If Bethesda doesn't officially care about sharing unmodified DLC content sans plugins, there's no reason for Nexus or other sites to care.

 

And to what extent is modified content truly modified? Texture optimization aims to reduce file sizes without sacrificing fidelity. But what if you remove one byte from the file? Does that mean the texture is "modified" and therefore distributable? What if you change the file date? That changes the file header. Does that count as "modified"?

 

If the end result is the same texture, and not original content, then distributing that texture infringes on Bethesda's copyright unless Bethesda provides modders with a license (i.e., explicit permission) to do so.

 

That Nexus doesn't really apply its rules in any sort of consistent way is unsurprising, but Bethesda still needs to lay their rules out in more detail.

 

It would be great if Gstaff came back and said that all of the content in the BSAs was distributable.

 

I cant see Bethesda re-doing the Creation Kit EULA, it would cost to employ legal beagles to reword it.

 

The only definitions we have to go on are in there. I take modified to mean any alteration of the original file. If that results in a CRC change to the file, a slight shift in Z height of normal maps, a few pixels dithered a little more because of a filter in GIMP .. Its modified.

Edited August 23, 2014 by alt3rn1ty

[fireundubh]

In my case, and Tony971 mod too, they are not going to work without the DLC.

If you put out a BSA filled with optimized textures from Dawnguard, someone else can put out a mod that uses those optimized Dawnguard textures. That mod wouldn't, or shouldn't, be banned if your mod wasn't banned. Therefore, your mods would work without the DLC because you're actually distributing DLC content that doesn't require any plugins.

 

You'd be effectively distributing DLC content as "modder resources" disguised as optimized textures. 

I cant see Bethesda re-doing the Creation Kit EULA, it would cost to employ legal beagles to reword it. The only definitions we have to go on are in there. I take modified to mean any alteration of the original file. If that results in a CRC change to the file, a slight shift in Z height of normal maps, a few pixels dithered a little more because of a filter in GIMP .. Its modified.

First of all, redoing a EULA is easy to do when you have an army of lawyers already on your payroll. Not that I agree with your reading of the EULA.

 

Second, your definitions don't matter. Bethesda's definitions are the only definitions that matter here.

[alt3rn1ty]

I believe you are just here to pick fault in what people say and have an unconstructive argument.

 

"someone else can put out a mod that uses those optimized Dawnguard textures."

 

Why would that be a concern to the texture mod author ? The intended use as per the description without sneaky third party modder up to mischief is not a problem in itself.

 

You are saying nobody can put a mod out there if there is potential for a third party to make it break rules .. Rubbish. Nobody will ever be able to do anything.

 

 

And I realise my definitions do not matter, all we can do as laymen is individually interpret what we have been given .. You said it needs to be more detailed, personally I would prefer they leave it as is and we all carry on modding TES as we have been doing since Morrowind was released without any legal problems so far.

[TechAngel85]

You guys need to stop the "what ifs". You've completely derailed this thread. Please back to discussing the mod. Thanks.

[hellanios]

Is it possible to use this mod with the Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized mod? I mean have the proper formats of first and the lower resolutions of the latter.

[TechAngel85]

Is it possible to use this mod with the Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized mod? I mean have the proper formats of first and the lower resolutions of the latter.

Completely possible. Doing so would be no different from optimizing your vanilla texture yourself and then using the mod you mentioned. Just be sure this mod is loaded first.

[hellanios]

Completely possible. Doing so would be no different from optimizing your vanilla texture yourself and then using the mod you mentioned. Just be sure this mod is loaded first.

But don't they replace the same textures? I'm talking about Optimized High Res DLC in the optional files.