pack Dreadflopps Modular patches

[Lonewolf]

@dreadflopp In the guide is written that the TTR plugins for destruction, one-handed and speech shouldn't be merged. Is it because they are masters for the patches uploaded by you or for other reasons? (Because otherwise i can make my own patch for the merged plugin that i make).

 

Also, i was looking for an alchemy mod since my character will rely on potions quite a lot. I have found two mods that i think will be a great addition for this guide:

 

Dynamic Potions: It lets you adjust duration, strength, weight, gold value of potions, poisons and food thanks to a practical MCM menu. It is compatible with almost everything, even with other mods that alter alchemy/potions. And if FISS is installed you can save/load custom presets (so we can make a preset that fits this guide).

 

Miko's Alchemy & Food Overhaul: I have found this mod while looking at the mod suggestions of the Enchanting Awakened nexus page. Other than the classic potions adjustments (wich can be covered by Dynamic Potions) it has:

- Potions can be weaker or powerful based on the ingriedents that make them (a feature that so far i have seen only in Requiem, and i miss it so much);

- You can learn effects of ingridients from recepies (but it makes recepies cost 8 times the vanilla value);

- Food and Alchool changes (they should be compatible with iNeed, since iNeed is all scripted. If not, they are in a different plugin, so it can just be disabled).

And it has also a modified alchemy perk plugin wich is basically identical to TTR or vanilla, it changes only the magnitude of some perks to better adjust it to the potion changes. But it has a nice little feature, a power to disable the "Purity" perk of the alchemy tree (since it can reduce the price of some potions).

[noobzor]

I've been letting them get perks via asis but my concern has always been how the distribution of what perks and abilities they use is set.  RoE might not be perfect, I agree, but one of the coolest things I've seen in skyrim is when the vampire I was fighting turned into a bunch of bats and flew away.  That was awesome!  By giving them perks I'm afraid that these special, unique abilities will show up less in the game as the creatures use the asis added perks, ultimately leading to a game where every battle looks, feels, and behaves the same way, regardless of what sort of creature/npc you are fighting.

That has not been my experience with the perk distribution of ASIS.  For the most part, the majority of the perks are just adding various bonuses to whatever the NPC's already do.  It does affect some of their decision-making to a certain extent, but not to the point that I have seen anything stop using their special abilities.  I would guess that you would still see vampires do all those kinds of things at about the same frequency regardless of what vanilla perks they get...no way to know without trying it, though.  I will say that giving perks to dragons has in no way discouraged any dragons from using all the ass-whuppery added by Dragon Combat Overhaul.

[cstarkey42]

@noobzor

 

Thanks for the advice.  You're right about dco so it makes sense to me that roe abilities would be similar, I just haven't fought enough vampires and dragon priests to experience it enough first hand.  Only one way to find out for sure...time for some vampire hunting!  

[blattgeist]

 

Adding a mod to the exclusion list only excludes NPCs added by that mod, it has no effect on NPC's edited by that mod.  So, if you want to include most vanilla NPC's, but exclude specific vanilla npc's that were edited by RoE, for example, then you have to add those specific NPC's to the "NpcExclusions" instead of just adding RoE to the "NpcModExclusions".

Hm.. good knowledge. So by adding mods to the list ASIS will exclude only mod added NPCs. If I want any specificially changed ones excluded I'd ahve to manually add their names. Alright. That still leaves the question *looking at Tes5Edit categories* open wether I should check mods for both leveled list and NPC (Actor) list. But I think I can answer that myself.. at least as far as perks go.. because perks can't be added to leveled lists, only to the actual actors.

 

 

The whole thing I try to understand is how to go about these 2 statements. I'm sure you tried to explain them.. but it did not exactly answer my questions. Or maybe I asked them in the wrong way. I don't know.

 

 

With Automatic Perks, just add all of your perk-adding mods to the "PerkModExclusions", and add any already difficult creature-adding mods to "NpcModExclusions", then you are left with just distributing perks to the stuff that was easy.

As written above. Here I simply have to exclude mods that add NPCs to the actor list (not leveled NPC list) and mods that add perks, right?

 

With Increased Spawns, you can add all of your enemy-adding mods to the "ModExclusions", then you are left with only increasing the vanilla spawns, which isn't that bad, and never get a bunch of spriggan matrons or anything like that.

The same question here... exclude only mods that add NPCs to the leveled list (see Tes5Edit "Leveled NPC") or also those mods that add NPCs to the actual actor list (Tes5Edit "NPC (Actor)")?

 

 

The whole question so far is only about leveled NPC list and actual actor list.

 

I just try to understand at which categories to look in Tes5Edit when searching for mods to exclude. And these 2 categories are mentioned above.

Edited June 24, 2014 by blattgeist

[noobzor]

 

The whole question so far is only about leveled NPC list and actual actor list.

 

Don't look at the Level Lists at all, level lists have nothing to do with it.  You only need to look for new NPC's in the "Non-player Character" category, aka the actor list.  The same goes for NPC's to get perks, spells, increased spawns, or whatever.

 

The way the increased spawns works (very simplified explanation) is that it adds a small script to NPC's so that whenever they spawn, this script fires off and has a chance to spawn additional copies.  The leveled list doesn't matter at all...ASIS doesn't look at or care about level lists.  Randomized spawns is basically the same, except instead of a chance to spawn additional copies, it is a chance to spawn different stuff.

[blattgeist]

Now that makes everything clear. Sorry.. I had a 32hour day.. that was just too much lol.

 

 

Oh one more question.

 

 

The way the increased spawns works (very simplified explanation) is that it adds a small script to NPC's so that whenever they spawn, this script fires off and has a chance to spawn additional copies.

I guess that means that I need to choose the option for increased spawns in the patcher if I want to use the actual ingame MCM settings for increased spawns, otherwise they have no effect, right? I imagine that the script gets not added to the NPCs when not using the patcher with the corresponding option..

Edited June 24, 2014 by blattgeist

[noobzor]

 

I guess that means that I need to choose the option for increased spawns in the patcher if I want to use the actual ingame MCM settings for increased spawns, otherwise they have no effect, right?

Yes, that is correct.

[blattgeist]

Ok thanks noobzor.

 

I just found a comment while searching for NPC exclusions regarding follower mods in the ASIS forum:

 

I love ASIS but as you can see it is one of quite a few things causing problems. Increased spawns and potions are apparently really script heavy(?) [...]

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/696547-asis/?p=8970170

 

Is this true? I suppose not.. otherwise noone would use that feature.

 

 

ASIS adds 1 script on each eligible npc that gives them leveled potions when they spawn. It shouldn't be a noticeable weight. You can easily exclude npcs or whole mods by editing the ini files.

Nevermind.

 

 

The newest upload has a (hopefully) much improved cleanup of dead NPCs. I think I also came up with an improved spawning call. However ASIS still attaches scripts to many npcs so will inevitably increase the size of your save. I'm continuing to look into cutting that down though.

Or maybe not "nevermind" hm... I think that statement mostly applies to the added potions feature.

Edited June 24, 2014 by blattgeist

[cstarkey42]

 

What is the function of "OBIS Skyre Enemy Scaling Patch.esp"?

 

OBIS has been updated to 1.61H as well.

 

It basically adds the perks added by the skyre enemy scaling module to obis bandits.

[dreadflopp]

@dreadflopp In the guide is written that the TTR plugins for destruction, one-handed and speech shouldn't be merged. Is it because they are masters for the patches uploaded by you or for other reasons? (Because otherwise i can make my own patch for the merged plugin that i make).Also, i was looking for an alchemy mod since my character will rely on potions quite a lot. I have found two mods that i think will be a great addition for this guide:Dynamic Potions: It lets you adjust duration, strength, weight, gold value of potions, poisons and food thanks to a practical MCM menu. It is compatible with almost everything, even with other mods that alter alchemy/potions. And if FISS is installed you can save/load custom presets (so we can make a preset that fits this guide).Miko's Alchemy & Food Overhaul: I have found this mod while looking at the mod suggestions of the Enchanting Awakened nexus page. Other than the classic potions adjustments (wich can be covered by Dynamic Potions) it has:- Potions can be weaker or powerful based on the ingriedents that make them (a feature that so far i have seen only in Requiem, and i miss it so much);- You can learn effects of ingridients from recepies (but it makes recepies cost 8 times the vanilla value);- Food and Alchool changes (they should be compatible with iNeed, since iNeed is all scripted. If not, they are in a different plugin, so it can just be disabled).And it has also a modified alchemy perk plugin wich is basically identical to TTR or vanilla, it changes only the magnitude of some perks to better adjust it to the potion changes. But it has a nice little feature, a power to disable the "Purity" perk of the alchemy tree (since it can reduce the price of some potions).

Regarding TTR plugins, that is the reason for not merging some plugins. I just realised yesterday that it would be better to advise in the guide to merge all TTR plugins you want and to use a name for the merged plugin that is set in the guide. I could then use wrye bash to change masters for all TTR patches to this merged TTR plugin. I have some work to do first though. There are things in the TTR plugins that I don't know how to patch. Kryptopyr is currently updating Smithing Perks Overhaul, WAF and CCF and I'm guessing that Stealth Skills Rebalanced comes next. I know she is adding a feature to SSR that makes dark cloth/armor give you a bonus to sneaking. Keywords for these are already added to CCF/WAF. With this addition to SSR I think the perfect TTR setup is TTR+SSR+Smithing perks overhaul+enchanting awakened. Even though TTR is supposed to be modular there are some perks that alter other perks, which is why patches is needed. Both SSR and TTR, sneak skill alters Heavy and Light armor. I'm going to redo the SSR Sneak - TTR Armor patch and ask Kryptopyr for advice. What is changed in the armor skills is the muffle effect that is added from the sneak skill. Both TTR and SSR does this but they have different muffle effects with their own FormIds. I'm worried that we could get both effects at once. I'm thinking of removing the TTR effect and replacing it with SSR's muffle effect. Another quite big conflict is in the matching set perk and TTR's finesse perk. These two perks conflict with matching set that is now included in WAF. I'm going to ask Kryptopyr for advice with this one to. I'm thinking of removing all keywords from TTR matching set/finesse and use those from WAF instead. Not sure it can be done with TES5Edit though.Both potions mods sounds good, if you try them tell us what you think. Nicopad has already suggested Dynamic Potions as an addition but the other one sounds good too. Both Nicopad and Garfink plays the game a lot more than me so they will have to try them, if they want to. My guess is one of these two will be added soon. Edited June 24, 2014 by dreadflopp

[noobzor]

I just found a comment while searching for NPC exclusions regarding follower mods in the ASIS forum:

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/696547-asis/?p=8970170

 

Is this true? 

No, the script lag from ASIS is negligible.  The scripts are attached to NPC's and thus will take up some space in your save file, but they only fire off when the NPC spawns, and never again. This is far more lightweight than pretty much anything that uses cloak spells (like Wet and Cold) or even the combat scripts from Duel (which fire off whenever anything happens in combat).

[blattgeist]

Alright.. I got everything setup then. Exclusion lists look like no important NPC changes were left out.I didn't touch the improved ini files except for the Deadly Dragons adjustment. NPCs now have potions: 2x with a chance of 5, the Enchantment Fix perks and spells.. which hopefully does not fire finger of death too often :o

 

Even after all our talk about perks and increased spawns.. I let them out for now.. I made some notes about what we discussed but it's too much trouble to think about all these difficulty, NPC adding and perk adding mods. Potions and the enchantment fix should be enough to give vanilla NPCs a little edge.

 

 

Hm... I wonder why we recommend a chance of only 5 for each potion to be given to an NPC. Isn't that a little low?

 

Oh and what about followers or follower mods? Should they be on the exclusion list? I read somewhere in the ASIS comments that the new version has code to take followers into account. Edit: I checked Vilja, Arissa, Sofia and Inigo. They merely got the enchant fix perks, but no spells. So all is fine.

 

 

 

A little note about Apocalypse spells: I think all the insta kill spells should go on the exclusion list. If followers happen to use this it would mean making the game too easy. I made a little picture with 2 questions: https://s1.directupload.net/images/140624/pzv3x92f.jpg I checked some of the higher level mage NPCs and they did not have these spells, but on the other hand I don't see these insta kill spells in any exclusion list.

Edited June 24, 2014 by blattgeist

[Lonewolf]

Regarding TTR plugins thats is the reason for not merging some plugins. I just realised yesterday that it would be better to advise in the guide to merge all TTR plugins you want to use a name for the merged plugin that is set in the guide. I could then use wrye bash to change masters for all TTR patches to this merged TTR plugin. I have some work to do first though. There are things in the TTR plugins that I don't know how to patch. Kryptopyr is currently updating Smithing Perks Overhaul, WAF and CCF and I'm guessing that Stealth Skills Rebalanced comes next. I know she is adding a feature to SSR that makes dark cloth/armor give you a bonus to sneaking. Keywords for these are already added to CCF/WAF. With this addition to SSR I think the perfect TTR setup is TTR+SSR+Smithing perks overhaul+enchanting awakened. Even though TTR is supposed to be modular there are some perks that alter other perks, which is why patches is needed. Both SSR and TTR, sneak skill alters Heavy and Light armor. I'm going to redo the SSR Sneak - TTR Armor patch and ask Kryptopyr for advice. What is changed in the armor skills is the muffle effect that is added from the sneak skill. Both TTR and SSR does this but they have different muffle effects with their own FormIds. I'm worried that we could get both effects at once. I'm thinking of removing the TTR effect and replacing it with SSR's muffle effect. Another quite big conflict is in the matching set perk and TTR's finesse perk. These two perks conflict with matching set that is now included in WAF. I'm going to ask Kryptopyr for advice with this one to. I'm thinking of removing all keywords from TTR matching set/finesse and use those from WAF instead. Not sure it can be done with TES5Edit though.

 

Both potions mods sounds good, if you try them tell us what you think. Nicopad has already suggested Dynamic Potions as an addition but the other one sounds good too. Both Nicopad and Garfink plays the game a lot more than me so they will have to try them, if they want to. My guess is one of these two will be added soon.

Ok then, for the moment i will wait before merging the TTR plugins and make my own patch, since i'm not sure either on how to solve the conflicts between TTR and SSR.

 

Also, i'm looking at the conflicts in Tes5Edit of Alchemy & Food Overhaul. And i must take back what i said about compatibility between this mod and Dynamic potions.

Alchemy & Food Overhaul for compatibility purpose with other ingredients mod divide the "Restore" and "Damage" potions into two categories:

- The restore/damage over time potions: they restore/damage over time (5 seconds for the restore effect and 3 seconds for the damage effect) but THEY DO NOT STACK;

- The instant restore/damage: these are the vanilla potions that he kept for compatibility purpose, they heal immediatly, but they are very weak (in Tes5Edit i'm seeing something like 10 times weaker).

Now, i have not tested this ingame so i'm not 100% sure, but what i'm seeing in Tes5Edit is that Dynamic Potions only modifies the instant potions.

So, while they are technically compatible, on a gameplay point of view they aren't, because if i have both of these mods, i will have potions that heal in 5 seconds but they do not stack and potions that heal in X seconds but stack, so i can cheat and take like 50 of them in a fight.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Lonewolf

[blattgeist]

 

Alchemy & Food Overhaul

You mean "Alchemy and Food Balanced Overhaul by mikogamiten"? That one was too hard to balance out for me.. so I skipped it. It sadly changes ingredient prices which really messes up the whole alchemy experience system. I really like "Gromits Cooking Recipes - Food - Drink Overhaul by Gromit" (don't activate the "no food effects" option in iNeed) because it gives food a little extra oomph that enhances your stats for a little while longer.

 

Another nice mod is "Alchemy Redone by Quantumbutterfly". This one gives you an alternative to the vanilla alchemy system. I could not test that yet.. but it's lying in my load order since forever.

 

Regarding Dynamic Potions and stacking heal potions.. from other mods, I think you are right. I use a mod that auto uses a potion every 20 seconds for me, once I fall under a certain amount of magicka/health/stamina. So that I don't need to take all these pots into my favourites menu. It's kinda old but even works with crafted potions: Swift Potion Reborn. This way I am not even tempted to double use potions.

 

I'm using version 1.1 instead of 1.2, because 1.2 is said to be incompatible with player essential effects like "Death Alternative" or "Aurora Spell Stone"s lovers effect I believe? 1.1 has the little problem with brawls instead.. I guess it would be best to try to stay at high HP in brawls in order to not use potions automatically.. or simply deactivate the mod in the mcm menu during a brawl. But to be honest, I think even 1.1 has problems with essential mods, the lovers effect of old aurora doomstone package only worked 50% of the time lol.. I don't know how to get around this yet.

Edited June 24, 2014 by blattgeist

[Lonewolf]

You mean "Alchemy and Food Balanced Overhaul by mikogamiten"? That one was too hard to balance out for me.. so I skipped it. It sadly changes ingredient prices which really messes up the whole alchemy experience system.

The only price increase that i'm seeing in Tes5Edit is of the Rare and Very Rare ingedients. You're saying that you gain more experience if you craft a potion with ingredients that cost more? I didn't knew that... but it makes sense, since those ingredients are rare and expensive (meaning that usually i shouldn't find them very often).

But can't it be adjusted by lowering the SkillExpGainMult of Alchemy in the uncapper.ini?