SKYRIMSE Crash Entering Windhelm via Main Gate

[swsjr]

Skyrim SE: 1.5.97

SKSE: 2.0.20

xLODGEN: xLODGen.98

DynDOLOD: DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha-128

I am experiencing a crash while attempting to enter Windhelm via the main gate. I admit I don't fully understand the logs, but this is the first time in years that I have not been able to identify the exact reason for a crash and correct the problem. I have done/am attaching the following in hopes that someone more experienced can assist me with identifying the issue:

1. .NET Script Framework - Crash_2023_7_16_8-49-57.txt: I've attempted disabling every mod listed in the possible relevant objects section and the game still crashes when attempting to enter the main gate (TESObjectCELL(Name: WindhelmCandlehearthHallExterior_, etc., etc.). I can exit through the main gate and I can enter/exit through the dock gate.

2. TexGen - TexGen_SSE_log.txt - ran twice, indicates it completed successfully.

3. TexGen - TexGen_SSE_Debug_log.txt - Could not attach due to file size but indicates it completed successfully.

4. DynDOILOD - DynDOLOD_SSE_log.txt - Ran DynDOLOD twice, including Occlusion creation.

5. DynDOLOD - DynDOLOD_SSE_Debug_log.txt - same as #4.

6. zLODGEN - Generated TexGeN successfully. Ran DynDOLOD again without Occlusion. Decided to try generating it via xLODGEN instead.

7. Papyrus - Papyrus.0.log - Could not attach due to file size but indicates script errors. There were no errors similar to what is indicated in the DynDOLOD readme.

8. Nifscan - Various errors indicated, but file was too large to attach.

9. Mod List/Load Order from MO2.

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

Crash_2023_7_16_8-49-57.txt TexGen_SSE_log.txt DynDOLOD_SSE_log.txt DynDOLOD_SSE_Debug_log.txt modlist.txt loadorder.txt

[DoubleYou]

I could be wrong, but 1300+ plugins sounds like it could be possible you are breaking a limit somewhere. I know that discussion of esl plugins makes it sound like you can load thousands of mods, but I don't think that is possible in practice, and purely theoretical given an optimal scenario. 

That said, only thing I see that sounds useful is something about navmesh, so I think perhaps a navmesh might be triggering the crash. I can only suggest that you attempt a binary search (which is going to be hell with 1300 mods). 

[swsjr]

42 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

I could be wrong, but 1300+ plugins sounds like it could be possible you are breaking a limit somewhere. I know that discussion of esl plugins makes it sound like you can load thousands of mods, but I don't think that is possible in practice, and purely theoretical given an optimal scenario. 

That said, only thing I see that sounds useful is something about navmesh, so I think perhaps a navmesh might be triggering the crash. I can only suggest that you attempt a binary search (which is going to be hell with 1300 mods). 

Thank you for the reply, DoubleYou. Yes, 1300 is many mods but, I've been playing on this save for about 3 years. I agree, it is probably navmesh related. I just wanted to rule out other things. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[Mousetick]

2 hours ago, swsjr said:

I've attempted disabling every mod listed in the possible relevant objects section and the game still crashes when attempting to enter the main gate (TESObjectCELL(Name: WindhelmCandlehearthHallExterior_, etc., etc.)

What does the crash log look like after disabling all mods involved?

14 minutes ago, swsjr said:

Yes, 1300 is many mods but, I've been playing on this save for about 3 years.

And you're only encountering this crash now? Hard to believe. Navmeshes are static, they either work or they don't, from start to end game. They have no state saved in the save file that could get out of whack over time.

When was the last time you were able to enter Windhelm? What change did you make to the load order then, if any?

[swsjr]

1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

What does the crash log look like after disabling all mods involved?

And you're only encountering this crash now? Hard to believe. Navmeshes are static, they either work or they don't, from start to end game. They have no state saved in the save file that could get out of whack over time.

When was the last time you were able to enter Windhelm? What change did you make to the load order then, if any?

I'll have to generate another log. I've been avoiding using the main gate after troubleshooting for three days.

As for it not crashing until now and other additions, I changed out Windhelm textures, switching from Skyland to Northfire's and added patches associated with Northfire's (Parallax, Embers, Los II). I also added FYX WIndhelm Entrance, Windhelm Bridge Archway and Doors, and Windhelm Docks Pathways. I wanted Pathways because I am still able to use the docks gate. I'll disable everything again and generate another log.

Thanks for responding.

*edit - forgot to mention I updated xLODGEN and DynDOLOD applications/installs and ran them as described in the initial post.

Edited July 16, 2023 by swsjr

[z929669]

9 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

That said, only thing I see that sounds useful is something about navmesh, so I think perhaps a navmesh might be triggering the crash. I can only suggest that you attempt a binary search (which is going to be hell with 1300 mods). 

Regardless of how many mods you have, a binary testing algorithm (disable half, test, disable other half, test, disable half of problematic half, test, etc.) ... EDIT: ... erhm, I meant to type "is pretty efficient regardless of the mod/plugin count".

If it's 4 mods, it takes a max of four attempts to find the problem mod, if it's 4000 mods, it only typically takes a few more steps (it's essentially a Bayesian approach, which is why it's largely agnostic to the total count, especially if you have a-priori suspicions).

@swsjr Use this method to quickly find the problematic plugin. If the problem is in your save, then this method won't work, obviously.

[swsjr]

11 hours ago, z929669 said:

Regardless of how many mods you have, a binary testing algorithm (disable half, test, disable other half, test, disable half of problematic half, test, etc.) ... EDIT: ... erhm, I meant to type "is pretty efficient regardless of the mod/plugin count".

If it's 4 mods, it takes a max of four attempts to find the problem mod, if it's 4000 mods, it only typically takes a few more steps (it's essentially a Bayesian approach, which is why it's largely agnostic to the total count, especially if you have a-priori suspicions).

@swsjr Use this method to quickly find the problematic plugin. If the problem is in your save, then this method won't work, obviously.

Thank you for the reply. I really do appreciate the help. I am familiar with the concept of disabling half the load order at a time, etc. but I was hoping to avoid that. I went back and tried disabling all "relevant objects" (mods) again to see what the log would show as Mousetick inquired/suggested. It shows the following:

"Possible relevant objects (8)
{
  [   9]    TESObjectACTI(Name: `Catapult`, FormId: 0005A5FE, File: `Skyrim.esm`) ... etc, etc. attached.

0005A5FE is Editor ID: CWCatapult, Model: CivilWarCatapult01.nif inside Skyrim.esm: Clutter\CivilWar\Catapult\CivilWarCatapult01.nif...

That seems strange to me... I will get around to doing the 1/2 thing when I can find the time. I was also thinking of validating the files through steam but, I want to avoid the update. I could downgrade again but, I'm concerned it may create more problems just to solve one.

Crash_2023_7_17_7-13-55.txt

[z929669]

25 minutes ago, swsjr said:

Thank you for the reply. I really do appreciate the help. I am familiar with the concept of disabling half the load order at a time, etc. but I was hoping to avoid that. I went back and tried disabling all "relevant objects" (mods) again to see what the log would show as Mousetick inquired/suggested. It shows the following:

"Possible relevant objects (8)
{
  [   9]    TESObjectACTI(Name: `Catapult`, FormId: 0005A5FE, File: `Skyrim.esm`) ... etc, etc. attached.

0005A5FE is Editor ID: CWCatapult, Model: CivilWarCatapult01.nif inside Skyrim.esm: Clutter\CivilWar\Catapult\CivilWarCatapult01.nif...

That seems strange to me... I will get around to doing the 1/2 thing when I can find the time. I was also thinking of validating the files through steam but, I want to avoid the update. I could downgrade again but, I'm concerned it may create more problems just to solve one.

Crash_2023_7_17_7-13-55.txt 85.53 kB · 0 downloads

The binary-check approach is suitable when you are uncertain what mod/plugin is causing issues. Note Mousetick's previous question:

17 hours ago, Mousetick said:

When was the last time you were able to enter Windhelm? What change did you make to the load order then, if any?

Since we have some clues about the potential problem plugins, you could start by disabling only mods providing these plugins and testing (with the exception of the USSEP and vanilla plugins):

Possible relevant objects (8)
{
  [   9]    TESObjectACTI(Name: `Catapult`, FormId: 0005A5FE, File: `Skyrim.esm`)
  [   9]    TESObjectREFR(FormId: 000AC19D, File: `Skyrim.esm`, BaseForm: TESObjectACTI(Name: `Catapult`, FormId: 0005A5FE, File: `Skyrim.esm`))
  [  43]    TESObjectCELL(Name: WindhelmCandlehearthHallExterior, FormId: 00038382, File: `S3DTrees NextGenerationForests.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- HearthFires.esm <- Update.esm <- Skyrim.esm`)
  [  61]    TESNPC(Name: `Luna`, FormId: 00000007, File: `MVF1FollowerBeta.esp <- Skyrim.esm`)
  [  61]    PlayerCharacter(FormId: 00000014, BaseForm: TESNPC(Name: `Luna`, FormId: 00000007, File: `MVF1FollowerBeta.esp <- Skyrim.esm`))
  [  83]    BGSLocation(Name: `Eastmarch`, FormId: 0001676A, File: `Keld-Nar.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- Skyrim.esm`)
  [  95]    TESWorldSpace(Name: WindhelmWorld `Windhelm`, FormId: 0001691D, File: `Provincial Courier Service.esp <- Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul.esp <- Complete Alchemy & Cooking Overhaul.esp <- WindhelmFakeWindowsFix.esp <- Map Markers Complete.esp <- Windhelm Entrance Fix.esp <- The Jarl's Household Guards.esp <- 1B04ExtraNPCs.esp <- Inigo.esp <- Thieves Guild Requirements.esp <- S3DTrees NextGenerationForests.esp <- 3DNPC.esp <- Cathedral - 3D Mountain Flowers.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- Dragonborn.esm <- HearthFires.esm <- Dawnguard.esm <- Update.esm <- Skyrim.esm`)
  [ 112]    BGSLocation(Name: `Windhelm`, FormId: 00018A57, File: `Bashed Patch, 0.esp <- Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp <- DeadlyDragons.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- Dragonborn.esm <- HearthFires.esm <- Dawnguard.esm <- Update.esm <- Skyrim.esm`)
}

Always, re-sort with LOOT prior to testing. Also disable any dependencies that might use these as masters. Once you have confirmed the problem, you can begin looking at the related references to isolate the offending record(s).

I'm not great at interpreting these crash logs to the specificity that some of the other folks on this topic are able to do. These are the basic first steps though.

[Mousetick]

39 minutes ago, swsjr said:

I went back and tried disabling all "relevant objects" (mods) again to see what the log would show as Mousetick inquired/suggested. It shows the following:

There's still more to disable:

(Name: WindhelmCandlehearthHallExterior, FormId: 00038382, File: `S3DTrees NextGenerationForests.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- HearthFires.esm <- Update.esm <- Skyrim.esm`)

Disable everything except USSEP and vanilla masters. Then try again, post crash log if it still crashes.

I hope you made a save outside in front of the Windhelm gates. You're going to reload that save many times over

[swsjr]

Crash log with everything disabled except  `Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- HearthFires.esm <- Update.esm <- Skyrim.esm.

On a side note, my save was in the Windhelm Docks Warehouse. When I exited, Horkers were attacking the docks, which I found funny. I'm about to give up, if I find the energy I'll try the disable 1/2 thing but for now, I may just have to live with using the docks gate.

Crash_2023_7_17_12-21-6.txt

*edit - I'll have to go back and expand the disabling as z929669 suggeted when I have time.

Edited July 17, 2023 by swsjr

[Mousetick]

It's exactly the same crash each time. Something else is causing it. Oh well, it was a cheap shot.

Are you in the middle of the Civil War? I'm asking because of the CW Catapult that was in the previous crashlog and is normally disabled.

You may only discover the issue now but it may have been present all along and is only triggered by certain scripted environment changes.

Other than that other likely culprits are the mods you added since the last time you entered Windhelm without crashing. Particularly those that affect Windhelm or Eastmarch.

[swsjr]

I'm past the Civil War. I can live with using the docks gate as long as I can still use my save. I may try upgrading and downgrading, as it should replace the core files. I also read a post where someone had the same problem and said removing occlusion.esp fixed it but, I tried that, and it did not work... Either way, I appreciate the time you guys took to try and help me. If I ever get it solved, I'll come back and update the post.

Edited July 17, 2023 by swsjr