Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Hi, I'm not sure if this has been reported before, but Northern roads modifies bridges in the game and they are causing large reference bug. The most noticeable ones are whiterun bridges. Whiterun Bridge lod meshes are misaligned which I fixed it by fixing the lod meshes, but that's how I first noticed both full model and lod appearing together. Apparently that's called large reference bug and that's why I'm here to report and ask how to fix it. I tried dyndolod's large reference fix option on and off, ignore large references setting on and off, but nothing fixes it. I am guessing something needs to be done on the mod Esp for it. What do you recommend? Should I try to move those records to a master esm file? Or is there another fix for it? Or simply not bother and add dyndolod records to always show the full mesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousetick Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 17 hours ago, sheson said: Let me know if this test version fixes this https://mega.nz/file/wAwHnbiQ#845ObhNZ48pmbFK-Qv6aG0hheuQaMj-hZM6At1lQzRE Yes it's fixed and it works great. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Shizof said: Hi, I'm not sure if this has been reported before, but Northern roads modifies bridges in the game and they are causing large reference bug. The most noticeable ones are whiterun bridges. Whiterun Bridge lod meshes are misaligned which I fixed it by fixing the lod meshes, but that's how I first noticed both full model and lod appearing together. Apparently that's called large reference bug and that's why I'm here to report and ask how to fix it. I tried dyndolod's large reference fix option on and off, ignore large references setting on and off, but nothing fixes it. I am guessing something needs to be done on the mod Esp for it. What do you recommend? Should I try to move those records to a master esm file? Or is there another fix for it? Or simply not bother and add dyndolod records to always show the full mesh? Read the first post and/or https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs which DynDOLOD log and debug log to upload. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Use-Search https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Object-LOD-model-and-full-model-show-at-the-same-time-causing-texture-flicker https://dyndolod.info/Help/Large-References https://dyndolod.info/Help/Large-Reference-Bugs-Workarounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 5 hours ago, spamalot223 said: So I just noticed recently on a trip to Solitude that there was a well missing from the markets leaving a gaping hole in the ground and the only thing I installed since the last time I saw it was DynDOLOD. I thought maybe it could be a mod that messes with wells, and maybe DynDOLOD wasn't playing nice with it, but I can't find one in my load order that does. The part that makes me believe that DynDOLOD is the culprit is that the well will magically reappear if I disable DynDOLOD.esp that gets generated from running the DynDOLOD_Output tool. Running through the DynDOLOD tools, there are no noticeable errors that come up, and the tools seem complete their tasks without problems. I want to be convinced I'm just doing something wrong, but I can't seem to pinpoint why DynDOLOD is causing this to be happening. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Moved to the DynDOLOD 3 Alpha thread. Read the first post and/or https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs which DynDOLOD log and debug log to upload when making posts. Read https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots how to make useful screenshots in the game with more informative console. https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Open-Exterior-Cities In case of Open Cities Skyrim make sure to click the Low, Medium or High button in order to load mesh mask rules for the plugin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 5 hours ago, sheson said: Read the first post and/or https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs which DynDOLOD log and debug log to upload. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Use-Search https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Object-LOD-model-and-full-model-show-at-the-same-time-causing-texture-flicker https://dyndolod.info/Help/Large-References https://dyndolod.info/Help/Large-Reference-Bugs-Workarounds Here are the log files: https://ufile.io/s8k6gkh2 I'm using DynDOLOD DLL NG with latest alpha 150. High option with a few additions. And large reference bugs workarounds is selected while running DynDOLOD. Also it's checked in MCM. It's like this approaching the mesh: |LOD----------------|----Full Mesh+LOD----|----------------Full Mesh| It shows Full Mesh+LOD for a while when approaching. If I just stay in that middle distance, it's always both of them. Note that I have uLargeRefLODGridSize set to 5. So this may not be large reference bug, since large reference system must be disabled normally according to your guides and faq. After some testing I found some other meshes in the world that has this bug (full mesh appearing at the same time as lod when I approach it), not just Northern Roads (this was just the first thing I noticed). Like for example mountain sides smoothly convert from lod to full mesh before my eyes which can only happen if both of them were showing at the same time I think (But this doesn't happen all the time). I'm using ERM - Enhanced Rocks and Mountains and its dyndolod addon and recommended lod settings. I'm testing it on a brand new save game and made sure I saw dyndolod initialized message before doing the tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Shizof said: Here are the log files: https://ufile.io/s8k6gkh2 I'm using DynDOLOD DLL NG with latest alpha 150. High option with a few additions. And large reference bugs workarounds is selected while running DynDOLOD. Also it's checked in MCM. It's like this approaching the mesh: |LOD----------------|----Full Mesh+LOD----|----------------Full Mesh| It shows Full Mesh+LOD for a while when approaching. If I just stay in that middle distance, it's always both of them. Note that I have uLargeRefLODGridSize set to 5. So this may not be large reference bug, since large reference system must be disabled normally according to your guides and faq. After some testing I found some other meshes in the world that has this bug (full mesh appearing at the same time as lod when I approach it), not just Northern Roads (this was just the first thing I noticed). Like for example mountain sides smoothly convert from lod to full mesh before my eyes which can only happen if both of them were showing at the same time I think (But this doesn't happen all the time). I'm using ERM - Enhanced Rocks and Mountains and its dyndolod addon and recommended lod settings. I'm testing it on a brand new save game and made sure I saw dyndolod initialized message before doing the tests. https://dyndolod.info/How-LOD-Works If the player moves around, new rows of cells attach so that the player is always in the center cell. When new cells attach, the game first loads the ground and lowers the terrain LOD meshes by a fixed amount under the ground and disables water LOD for the cells, loads all trees and disables their tree LOD, loads all objects and their full models and then disables object LOD for the cells. Having to wait for the full models to load before being able to disable the object LOD can take a noticeable time, in which the full models and their object LOD are both rendered for a brief time. In case the full model and the LOD model occupy the same 3D space (which for example can be the case for structures), their different lighting and textures can noticeable z-fight (texture flicker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, sheson said: https://dyndolod.info/How-LOD-Works If the player moves around, new rows of cells attach so that the player is always in the center cell. When new cells attach, the game first loads the ground and lowers the terrain LOD meshes by a fixed amount under the ground and disables water LOD for the cells, loads all trees and disables their tree LOD, loads all objects and their full models and then disables object LOD for the cells. Having to wait for the full models to load before being able to disable the object LOD can take a noticeable time, in which the full models and their object LOD are both rendered for a brief time. In case the full model and the LOD model occupy the same 3D space (which for example can be the case for structures), their different lighting and textures can noticeable z-fight (texture flicker). That's not what's happening. If I stay at that zone which is a big distance, it's always both of them, no matter how long I wait at that zone or no matter if I save, close the game, and load again etc. It's not while waiting Full models to load, it's all the time. I tried tll command to check lods disappearing to confirm the issue. Here's two screenshots where the flicker is happening: https://imgur.com/a/m7Lf3zI The bridge here. Note that between these two distances, both full model and lod are showing no matter how long I wait or if I save and close the game and open it again. It's like a big overlap of LOD and Full Model showing distances. Edited October 3, 2023 by Shizof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 34 minutes ago, Shizof said: That's not what's happening. If I stay at that zone which is a big distance, it's always both of them, no matter how long I wait at that zone or no matter if I save, close the game, and load again etc. It's not while waiting Full models to load, it's all the time. I tried tll command to check lods disappearing to confirm the issue. Here's two screenshots where the flicker is happening: https://imgur.com/a/m7Lf3zI The bridge here. Note that between these two distances, both full model and lod are showing no matter how long I wait or if I save and close the game and open it again. It's like a big overlap of LOD and Full Model showing distances. See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots how to make useful screenshots with more informative console. Check if anything of this applies: https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Out-of-place-or-floating-objects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 35 minutes ago, sheson said: See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots how to make useful screenshots with more informative console. Check if anything of this applies: https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Out-of-place-or-floating-objects I took those screenshots to show you the distance, not the actual flickering or the issue. I had started to rerun dyndolod with lods without texture to make it more visible that both objects are there, but I stopped it. It's a waste of time. Instead I rerun dyndolod after adding rules to use Full mesh for meshes from that mod for LOD4 which makes the issue gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 52 minutes ago, Shizof said: I took those screenshots to show you the distance, not the actual flickering or the issue. I had started to rerun dyndolod with lods without texture to make it more visible that both objects are there, but I stopped it. It's a waste of time. Instead I rerun dyndolod after adding rules to use Full mesh for meshes from that mod for LOD4 which makes the issue gone. If you are unable to make the requested useful screenshots with more informative console, provide the form id of the reference and base record in text. If you believe properly troubleshooting issues in order to actually fix their cause is a waste of time, then do not participate in the alpha test and use DynDOLOD 2.98 instead. Using the full model for object LOD should have no effect on the engine not unloading the object LOD. There can still be obvious shadow flicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, sheson said: If you are unable to make the requested useful screenshots with more informative console, provide the form id of the reference and base record in text. If you believe properly troubleshooting issues in order to actually fix their cause is a waste of time, then do not participate in the alpha test and use DynDOLOD 2.98 instead. Using the full model for object LOD should have no effect on the engine not unloading the object LOD. There can still be obvious shadow flicker. I just didn't want to waste your time any more than I already have with probably another useless screenshot with the null texture. I would be more than happy to take a screenshot with more informative console or give the formid if that's what you need. You didn't ask me for a screenshot or formid until I posted one for showing the distance where full mesh and lod both are shown. Here it is: https://imgur.com/a/Uo3cEsK both bridges that has this issue in whiterun. Let me know if you need anything else. Using full model for object lod pushes the problem further. Obviously doesn't fix anything. I read all the links related to subject, but couldn't figure out the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 39 minutes ago, Shizof said: I just didn't want to waste your time any more than I already have with probably another useless screenshot with the null texture. I would be more than happy to take a screenshot with more informative console or give the formid if that's what you need. You didn't ask me for a screenshot or formid until I posted one for showing the distance where full mesh and lod both are shown. Here it is: https://imgur.com/a/Uo3cEsK both bridges that has this issue in whiterun. Let me know if you need anything else. Using full model for object lod pushes the problem further. Obviously doesn't fix anything. I read all the links related to subject, but couldn't figure out the reason. Test if it also happens after changing to uLargeRefLODGridSize=7 or higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizof Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 59 minutes ago, sheson said: Test if it also happens after changing to uLargeRefLODGridSize=7 or higher Tested it. The issue doesn't happen when uLargeRefLODGridSize=7. Only when it's 5. Tested both again to confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheson Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Shizof said: Tested it. The issue doesn't happen when uLargeRefLODGridSize=7. Only when it's 5. Tested both again to confirm. Use xEdit to set the Has Distant LOD flag on the base record F0228ED6. That should fix it regardless of the uLargeRefLODGridSize setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markuskarttunen Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I am addicted to changelogs and I can't help but to notice v151 hasn't got one. Please sir, I need my fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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