xLODGen - Terrain LOD beta 130 for FNV, FO3, FO4, FO4VR, TES5, SSE, TES5VR, ENDERAL, ENDERALSE

[El_Rizzo]

First of all, thanks for the informative links, as someone who generally has no deeper knowledge about textures, this was quite interesting and enlightening (tho I won't pretend that I understood all the technical aspects ^^). As for testing the different compression methods, I created a chunk (LOD level 4, 0,0) with 888(8), 565, BC1, BC7 quick and BC7 max for both diffuse and normal maps and compared them using paint.net with up-to-date dds plugin and this is what I noticed:

 

Aside from an ever so slight shift in some colors, BC1 and 888 diffuse textures are looking the same to me, the only notable exception for both diffuse and normal maps was BC7, which has a more grainy look to it (both quick and max) than any other format used. An example of what I mean can be seen here:

888 format

 

 

BC7 max format

 

As for normal maps, I noticed a slight degradation in detail when comparing BC1 with 8888 and again BC7 looks more grainy than the rest, tho I'm not sure if it even makes sense to compare normal maps on their own?

 

For now I'm gonna use BC1 for both diffuse and normal textures as it seems to be the best trade-off between size and quality.

Edited March 9, 2019 by El_Rizzo

[sheson]

  On 3/9/2019 at 5:33 PM, El_Rizzo said:

First of all, thanks for the informative links, as someone who generally has no deeper knowledge about textures, this was quite interesting and enlightening (tho I won't pretend that I understood all the technical aspects ^^). As for testing the different compression methods, I created a chunk (LOD level 4, 0,0) with 888(8), 565, BC1, BC7 quick and BC7 max for both diffuse and normal maps and compared them using paint.net with up-to-date dds plugin and this is what I noticed:

 

Aside from an ever so slight shift in some colors, BC1 and 888 diffuse textures are looking the same to me, the only notable exception for both diffuse and normal maps was BC7, which has a more grainy look to it (both quick and max) than any other format used. An example of what I mean can be seen here:

888 format

 

 

BC7 max format

 

As for normal maps, I noticed a slight degradation in detail when comparing BC1 with 8888 and again BC7 looks more grainy than the rest, tho I'm not sure if it even makes sense to compare normal maps on their own?

 

For now I'm gonna use BC1 for both diffuse and normal textures as it seems to be the best trade-off between size and quality.

H, BC7 should have the least amount of artifacts and color banding.

 

The thing is, those compression differences you are able to spot when directly comparing textures in an image viewer most likely do not play such a big role in game with lighting and the noise texture are applied.

 

DXT1 should be the smallest files for the same resolution, thus potentially allowing to increase the resolution by one step if hardware resource allow it. That will improve the quality more than anything. 

 

(565 is out of the question since it does not work with SSE on running on Windows 7)

[El_Rizzo]

  On 3/9/2019 at 5:51 PM, sheson said:

The thing is, those compression differences you are able to spot when directly comparing textures in an image viewer most likely do not play such a big role in game with lighting and the noise texture are applied.

 

DXT1 should be the smallest files for the same resolution, thus potentially allowing to increase the resolution by one step if hardware resource allow it. That will improve the quality more than anything.

Yeah, hence why I'm sticking with BC1 :) I considered increasing the resolution further, but I'm currently at 2048 for diffuse at level 4 and I think that is sufficient enough for me, so I'll keep it that way since Sim Settlements + a lot of texture mods manages to fill up the 11gb Vram of my 1080ti at the current settings already

 

  Quote

 

(565 is out of the question since it does not work with SSE on running on Windows 7)

I'm aware, but since I'm on Windows 10 and I tested with Fallout 4 it shouldn't be a problem, unless I'm somehow mistaken.

[sheson]

  On 3/9/2019 at 7:01 PM, El_Rizzo said:

Yeah, hence why I'm sticking with BC1 :) I considered increasing the resolution further, but I'm currently at 2048 for diffuse at level 4 and I think that is sufficient enough for me, so I'll keep it that way since Sim Settlements + a lot of texture mods manages to fill up the 11gb Vram of my 1080ti at the current settings already

 

I'm aware, but since I'm on Windows 10 and I tested with Fallout 4 it shouldn't be a problem, unless I'm somehow mistaken.

It works fine in FO4 AFAIK

[kranazoli]

Hi Guys and Girls,

 

I have asked that question from Sheson and got an answer. (DynDOLOD topic)

 

Now, I ask you, who play Skyrim SSE and use xcLODGEN and/or DynDOLOD.

From the Oldrim Skyrim time, I just used DynDOLOD.

 

ATM, I do not have how things gopingon with SSE! There are some Guide here which recommend to use xLODGEN with SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm and DynDOLOD, as well.

For instance: TUCOGUIDE

 

 

 

At the Nordic Guide:

 

"DynDOLOD (or here): This is a more advanced and also not that performance-friendly option as previous one. Still, it's worth to use it instead of SSELODGen (there are different performance options that you can choose from). [CORE]"

 

But, I am more curious about personal experience from players.

 

 

 

Which method is "the most" recommended one?

 

1.) Use xLODGEN and DynDOLOD, as well. (SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm)?

2.) Or, use "'just" DynDOLOD is enough? (DynDOLOD Resources SE + DynDOLOD Standalone and use TexGen and for instance High preset for DynDOLOD)

 

 

 

Because this info is totally new to me:

 

"Recommended Optionals
 
TES5-Terrain-Tamriel.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm
Put in game data folder obviously. Adds back terrain for Skyrim (Tamriel worldspace) at the outer edges so there is no missing terrain meshes/textures when generating terrain LOD for Skyrim.
Only required to be loaded when generating terrain LOD. No harm done when loaded in-game but typically the player can not get close to these areas, so it is rather useless."

 

Thank You!

Edited March 12, 2019 by kranazoli

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2019 at 6:31 PM, kranazoli said:

Hi Guys and Girls,

 

I have asked that question from Sheson and got an answer. (DynDOLOD topic)

 

Now, I ask you, who play Skyrim SSE and use xcLODGEN and/or DynDOLOD.

From the Oldrim Skyrim time, I just used DynDOLOD.

 

ATM, I do not have how things gopingon with SSE! There are some Guide here which recommend to use xLODGEN with SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm and DynDOLOD, as well.

For instance: TUCOGUIDE

 

 

 

At the Nordic Guide:

 

"DynDOLOD (or here): This is a more advanced and also not that performance-friendly option as previous one. Still, it's worth to use it instead of SSELODGen (there are different performance options that you can choose from). [CORE]"

 

But, I am more curious about personal experience from players.

 

 

 

Which method is "the most" recommended one?

 

1.) Use xLODGEN and DynDOLOD, as well. (SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm)?

2.) Or, use "'just" DynDOLOD is enough? (DynDOLOD Resources SE + DynDOLOD Standalone and use TexGen and for instance High preset for DynDOLOD)

 

 

 

Because this info is totally new to me:

 

"Recommended Optionals

 

TES5-Terrain-Tamriel.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm

Put in game data folder obviously. Adds back terrain for Skyrim (Tamriel worldspace) at the outer edges so there is no missing terrain meshes/textures when generating terrain LOD for Skyrim.

Only required to be loaded when generating terrain LOD. No harm done when loaded in-game but typically the player can not get close to these areas, so it is rather useless."

 

Thank You!

Why ask the same question again?

 

As asked, answered and discussed before: use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD.

 

 

 

Skyrim.esm does not contain the entire Tamriel landmass, but the vanilla game ships with LOD meshes and textures that cover more area.

 

So TES5-Terrain-Tamriel.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm adds back terrain for Skyrim (Tamriel worldspace) at the outer edges so there is no missing terrain meshes/textures when generating terrain LOD for Skyrim.

 

A common problem with old terrain LOD replacer mods made with OSCAPE back in the day.

[kranazoli]

  On 3/12/2019 at 7:03 PM, sheson said:

Why ask the same question again?

 

As asked, answered and discussed before: use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD.

 

 

 

Skyrim.esm does not contain the entire Tamriel landmass, but the vanilla game ships with LOD meshes and textures that cover more area.

 

So TES5-Terrain-Tamriel.esm, SSE-Terrain-Tamriel.esm adds back terrain for Skyrim (Tamriel worldspace) at the outer edges so there is no missing terrain meshes/textures when generating terrain LOD for Skyrim.

 

A common problem with old terrain LOD replacer mods made with OSCAPE back in the day.

"But, I am more curious about personal experience from players."

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2019 at 8:10 PM, kranazoli said:

"But, I am more curious about personal experience from players."

LOD only matches the load order it was generated for, so LOD should be generated for every load order, just like plugins are cleaned and patched.

 

If you find a terrain LOD mod with good terrain LOD textures that match your load order use it. Otherwise generate terrain LOD textures - it is a long process that might require some retries/time to have satisfactory results.

 

Generate terrain LOD meshes for the load order at least for LOD Level 4 with protect cell border checked.

[kranazoli]

  On 3/12/2019 at 8:49 PM, sheson said:

LOD only matches the load order it was generated for, so LOD should be generated for every load order, just like plugins are cleaned and patched.

 

If you find a terrain LOD mod with good terrain LOD textures that match your load order use it. Otherwise generate terrain LOD textures - it is a long process that might require some retries/time to have satisfactory results.

 

Generate terrain LOD meshes for the load order at least for LOD Level 4 with protect cell border checked.

Shortly:

 

Just DynDOLOD is not enough. That's you wrote.

So, DynDOLOD is not instead of xLODGEN.

 

xLODGEN + DynDOLOD is required.

 

That's how I summarize your info.

 

Right?

 

 

 

Which one is prefered for LOD4?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that's, how I run TexGen:

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by kranazoli

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2019 at 9:28 PM, kranazoli said:

Shortly:

 

Just DynDOLOD is not enough. That's you wrote.

So, DynDOLOD is not instead of xLODGEN.

 

xLODGEN + DynDOLOD is required.

 

That's how I summarize your info.

 

Right?

 

 

Which one is prefered for LOD4?

 

 

And that's, how I run TexGen:

 

 

As I keep saying: use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD.

 

The exact options and settings to use depend on your load order, system, setup and personal preferences. For terrain LOD check this thread for discussions or discuss with the authors of the guides.

 

For TexGen I usually see no reason to change the defaults.

[kranazoli]

  On 3/12/2019 at 11:27 PM, sheson said:

As I keep saying: use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD.

 

The exact options and settings to use depend on your load order, system, setup and personal preferences. For terrain LOD check this thread for discussions or discuss with the authors of the guides.

 

For TexGen I usually see no reason to change the defaults.

Ok. Thank You!

"Sry", for my questions.

 

xLODGEN and DynDOLOD is needed. That's how I got everything you wrote. Using just DynDOLOD is not enough.

 

"use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD."

 

That's how TUCOGUIDE suggets LOD generating.

Edited March 13, 2019 by kranazoli

[kranazoli]

  On 3/13/2019 at 9:53 AM, kranazoli said:

Ok. Thank You!

"Sry", for my questions.

 

xLODGEN and DynDOLOD is needed. That's how I got everything you wrote. Using just DynDOLOD is not enough.

 

"use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD first and then TexGen and DynDOLOD for object and tree LOD."

 

That's how TUCOGUIDE suggets LOD generating.

It's meeee again! :)

 

Sry, in the meantime I had an another question:

 

Just now DL-ed the xLODGen beta 41 - based on xEdit-4.0.1o RC5 for 4.0.2

And I see there are BC7 Quick format for LOD generator. If I am not mistaken earlier version didn't have type of format.

 

Which one is better to use for xLODGEN?

 

1.) DXT1 or

2.) BC7 Quick

 

I ask it, cause you wrote:

 

"For TexGen I usually see no reason to change the defaults."

 

And TexGen default format is BC7 Quick.

 

So, with the newer version of xLODGEN we have the option to use BC7 Quick for xLODGEN and TexGEN, as well?

 

Thank You!

 

PS: Slowly run out of my questions...

[sheson]

  On 3/14/2019 at 5:49 AM, kranazoli said:

It's meeee again! :)

 

Sry, in the meantime I had an another question:

 

Just now DL-ed the xLODGen beta 41 - based on xEdit-4.0.1o RC5 for 4.0.2

And I see there are BC7 Quick format for LOD generator. If I am not mistaken earlier version didn't have type of format.

 

Which one is better to use for xLODGEN?

 

1.) DXT1 or

2.) BC7 Quick

 

I ask it, cause you wrote:

 

"For TexGen I usually see no reason to change the defaults."

 

And TexGen default format is BC7 Quick.

 

So, with the newer version of xLODGEN we have the option to use BC7 Quick for xLODGEN and TexGEN, as well?

 

Thank You!

 

PS: Slowly run out of my questions...

 

We just discussed a bit about this a few days earlier https://forum.step-project.com/topic/13451-xlodgen-terrain-lod-beta-for-fnv-fo3-fo4-fo4vr-tes5-sse-tes5vr-enderal/page-34?p=233697&do=findComment&comment=233697

[kranazoli]

  On 3/14/2019 at 9:55 AM, sheson said:

We just discussed a bit about this a few days earlier https://forum.step-project.com/topic/13451-xlodgen-terrain-lod-beta-for-fnv-fo3-fo4-fo4vr-tes5-sse-tes5vr-enderal/page-34?p=233697&do=findComment&comment=233697

Thank You Sheson!

 

I got the answer to my question:

 

"With the latest update, BC1 (DXT1) will probably have sufficient quality for both terrain diffuse and normal textures while using the least amount of video memory."

 

That's more than enough for me. I'll use xLODGEN with DXT1 (as I did before).

[kranazoli]

"Here are suggestion to start without going crazy and that should be quick enough to generate:
 
Set quality of meshes for LOD4 to 5 and then +5 for each next level. Or just set levels 8/16/32 to 10.
Check protect cell borders (yes it fixes the ugly terrain drops at outer cell borders that still exist in Fallout 4).
Use the max vertices setting only if you want to hard limit max file size.

Set Optimize Unseen to off forfirst generation, so you have something to compare to later.
Start experimenting with on or a value of 500 for LOD32 and compare coastlines and file size to other settings. Check Specific Chunk and drop down to 32 and set SW to test with a specific file with lots of water, river etc.
 
Set texture sizes to 512 for a start. Larger sizes and large world spaces will take a considerable time (like 15 to 30 minutes or more easily). Each higher resolution means quadruple the work.
Use DXT1 for diffuse and 565 for normal. Check mipmaps and raise steepness, uncheck Bake normal maps.
 
For now, leave the Brightness, Contrastand Gamma at 0 and 1.0 respectively. It seems that only Skyrim CK and Skyrim SE CK are manipulating the intensity of the textures to adjust for the noise.dds and the god awful "improved" snow shader of Skyrim SE (just turn that thing off, really). If textures seem too dark in the game, brighten the noise.dds instead or vice versa. That way you can get perfectly matching LOD textures that look just like the textures in the loaded cells. For Skyrim a good average color of the noise texture seems to be around #C0. See below for a couple noise texture downloads.
 
If you want to test larger texture sizes, use the chunk option to limit the number of textures that need to be generated. For example, check [x] Specific chunk, leave thedrop down empty and set WS to the lower left cell coordinate of an 32x32 area, like 0, 0. It will then generate all textures up to 31,31. Not all worldspaces have their origin at 0,0 so you will have to check already generated meshes/texture filenames for their lower left coordinates."

 

Hi,

 

I understood we have xLODGEN to generate Terrain LOD, cause DynDOLOD does not "makes" it.

I understood we should use DXT1 for xLODGEN.

 

The only thing I am not sure, which is approx. the best settings for each LOD? (LOD4; 8; 16; 32)

 

Use DXT1 for diffuse and 565 for normal.

 

It seems to me odd. 565 for normal? Not 256?!

 

As I have earlersaid I use Guides, and I guess maybe your 1st response will be ask the Guide Author!

(Totally undertsand)

 

But, it looks to me, that xLODGEN settings at TUCOGUIDE very similar, what you recommend. The only main difference is:

 

Set quality of meshes for LOD4 to 5 and then +5 for each next level. Or just set levels 8/16/32 to 10.

 

I don't know how familiar you are with TUCOGUIDE.

But I am really curious what your opinion about how hwor she(?) set each LOD parameter?

 

 

 

 

 

Really Thank You!