ACCEPTED Skyrim Realistic Overhaul (by Starac)

[frihyland]

Thanks for the Latin refresher course Monty :D So rare to see language and logic correctly utilized these days.

[GraPhiXJuNkiE]

Using SkyrimHD roads with SRO is no go for me... Horribly mismatched. Uninstalled SkrimHD (just to test a full SRO. Not knockin' SkyrimHD.) and viola no more mismatched roads...

[Starac]

Using SkyrimHD roads with SRO is no go for me... Horribly mismatched. Uninstalled SkrimHD (just to test a full SRO. Not knockin' SkyrimHD.) and viola no more mismatched roads...

Absolutely.

 

This is why i said that you can't combine them.

[PatimPatam]

Hi there again, sorry i've been on vacation and couldn't reply for the last few days.. i will try to stay on topic.

 

I'm afraid i didn't have time to test in detail cities etc. Apart from the main loose landscape files i tested only roads and mountains (more on that later).

 

I did test SERIOUS HD landscape for the last few days and even though in general i prefer the textures from either SHD or SRO i think it's pretty good when installed on it's own. Also i'm glad i tried it because i managed to find some great textures which i was not happy with either SHD or SRO. One example could be the snowrocks (which imo combine quite well with SHD rocks):

 

rocks-vanilla

rocks-SRO

rocks-SHD

rocks-SHD-SERIOUS

 

 

@Starac, first let me just say that i'm a big fan of your work and that i agree in mostly all the points you have made so far from a technical/artistical view. I personally almost in all circumstances prefer the textures that are as close to vanilla as possible because they blend together perfectly and because they retain bethesda's artistic intend also when looking at them from a distance; It's not only about the texture itself but about texture composition and the patters-relations created between different ones. The river stones you mentioned is a perfect example of that.

 

Here are some screenshots to prove your point:

 

shore-vanilla

shore-SHD

shore-SRO

 

(But please notice that in this particular case both TC and me had already agreed with you and recommended it)

 

One thing i do not agree with you is that we shouldn't try to mix different mods. With so many hundreds and hundreds of textures and the effort that can take to create just one of them it's just not possible that a single modder creates the best version of every single texture out there, and it is inevitable than some particular ones are better than others..

 

While I totally understand the frustration of spending uncountable time and effort creating a mod like this and having someone else who doesn't know a thing about creating textures saying another one is better, I think it's also normal and valid that we poor "users" want to get the best combination possible.

 

It's true that you can't just compare the dds, pick your favourite ones and combine them, but i DO believe if you do a proper and methodical "study" of each texture also in-game, from different distances, taking into account the blending etc and applying some good judgement (and patience) you can have a better looking skyrim by combining different mods. Not saying it's easy, but it's possible.

 

For instance using your very same argument about staying close to vanilla i personally prefer SHD mountains (combined with "Better Rocks and Mountains" mod) than SRO mountains. Even though SRO are much more detailed from close-by they change the vanilla color quite noticeably and they look much lighter, almost golden, so they change the atmosphere and don't blend so well with other textures like rocks. Similar thing happens with the dirt02 texture and dirtroads, which IMO look too orangey when compared to vanilla.

 

mountain-vanilla

mountain-SHD-BRM

mountain-SRO

 

About the roads of course they have to match with the textures that you pick on the landscape part. As I just mentioned I personally prefer Skyrim HD for the main roads, but since I'm using SRO´s snow and fallforest textures I obviously recommend picking SRO snow and fallforest roads.

 

Anyhow, sorry for the long ramblings, here's my actual personal recommendation for combining LANDSCAPE textures from SHD, SRO and SERIOUS.

 

I guess you could call it "PatimPatam's LANDSCAPE MIX" :-P

 

 

 

 

- Install "Skyrim HD - 2K Textures - LANDSCAPE" (remove trees and snow01lod)

 

 

- Overwrite with "Skyrim Realistic Overhaul" selection:

 

--Landscape--

 

coastbeach01.dds

coastbeach01_n.dds

coastbeach02.dds

coastbeach02_n.dds

coastbeachgrass01.dds

coastbeachgrass01_n.dds

coastoceanfloor01.dds

coastoceanfloor01_n.dds

dirtpath01.dds

dirtpath01_n.dds

dirtsnowpath01.dds

dirtsnowpath01_n.dds

fallforestdirt01.dds

fallforestdirt01_n.dds

fallforestgrass01.dds

fallforestgrass01_n.dds

fallforestleaves01.dds

fallforestleaves01_n.dds

fallforestrocks01.dds

fallforestrocks01_n.dds

fieldgrass02.dds

fieldgrass02_n.dds

frozenmarshdirtslopes01.dds

frozenmarshdirtslopes01_n.dds

frozenmarshgrass01.dds

frozenmarshgrass01_n.dds

frozenmarshice01.dds

frozenmarshice01_n.dds

grasssnow01.dds

grasssnow01_n.dds

pineforest03.dds

pineforest03_n.dds

reachdirt01.dds

reachdirt01_n.dds

riverbededge.dds

riverbededge_n.dds

riverbottom.dds

riverbottom_n.dds

snow01.dds

snow01_n.dds

snow01alta.dds

snow02.dds

snow02_n.dds

tundra01.dds

tundra01_n.dds

tundra02.dds

tundra02_n.dds

tundrarocks01.dds

tundrarocks01_n.dds

volcanictundradirt01.dds

volcanictundradirt01_n.dds

volcanictundragravel01.dds

volcanictundragravel01_n.dds

volcanictundraminerals01.dds

volcanictundraminerals01_n.dds

 

--Landscape/Roads--

 

bridge01.dds

bridge01_n.dds

road01fallforest01.dds

road01snow01.dds

road01snow01_n.dds

 

 

- Overwrite with "Real Ice - Azur Glacier Pack" (parallax)

 

 

- Overwrite with "Serious HD Retexture Skyrim" selection:

 

--Landscape--

 

icefloes.dds

icefloes_n.dds

reachmoss01.dds

reachmoss01_n.dds

reachmossyrocks01.dds

reachmossyrocks01_n.dds

rivermud.dds

rivermud_n.dds

snowrocks01.dds

snowrocks01_n.dds

snowstone01.dds

snowstone01_n.dds

tundramoss01.dds

 

 

- Overwrite with "Better Rocks and Mountains" (only textures)

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I could have made mistakes so if anyone finds an example where the combination suggested doesn't work please let me know (if possible with pictures). I think that would be positive feedback for the community!

[z929669]

@

PatimPatam

Good compares. I agree with most of your points; however, I do like the SRO mountains best, but am unhappy with the snow on the mountains. SHD has much better snow, especially close up. Looks like SRO kept the crappy vanilla snow with minimal change.

 

thanks for the info.

 

I have not tested Serious at all, but will make it a point to do so. You might want to check out the benchmarks and screens I made of vanilla SHD and SRO over on the "Advice, Hints & Spoilers" forum > "Good performance Hunting" thread.

[frihyland]

If you are doing a comparison of all the graphic overhaul packs don't forget Insanity's texture pack I've used many of these individually and haven't been disappointed.

[z929669]

Will do, thanks for the reminder

[Starac]

 

Hi there again, sorry i've been on vacation and couldn't reply for the last few days.. i will try to stay on topic.

 

 

 

I'm afraid i didn't have time to test in detail cities etc. Apart from the main loose landscape files i tested only roads and mountains (more on that later).

 

 

 

I did test SERIOUS HD landscape for the last few days and even though in general i prefer the textures from either SHD or SRO i think it's pretty good when installed on it's own. Also i'm glad i tried it because i managed to find some great textures which i was not happy with either SHD or SRO. One example could be the snowrocks (which imo combine quite well with SHD rocks):

 

 

 

rocks-vanilla

 

rocks-SRO

 

rocks-SHD

 

rocks-SHD-SERIOUS

 

 

 

 

 

@Starac, first let me just say that i'm a big fan of your work and that i agree in mostly all the points you have made so far from a technical/artistical view. I personally almost in all circumstances prefer the textures that are as close to vanilla as possible because they blend together perfectly and because they retain bethesda's artistic intend also when looking at them from a distance; It's not only about the texture itself but about texture composition and the patters-relations created between different ones. The river stones you mentioned is a perfect example of that.

 

 

 

Here are some screenshots to prove your point:

 

 

 

shore-vanilla

 

shore-SHD

 

shore-SRO

 

 

 

(But please notice that in this particular case both TC and me had already agreed with you and recommended it)

 

 

 

One thing i do not agree with you is that we shouldn't try to mix different mods. With so many hundreds and hundreds of textures and the effort that can take to create just one of them it's just not possible that a single modder creates the best version of every single texture out there, and it is inevitable than some particular ones are better than others..

 

 

 

While I totally understand the frustration of spending uncountable time and effort creating a mod like this and having someone else who doesn't know a thing about creating textures saying another one is better, I think it's also normal and valid that we poor "users" want to get the best combination possible.

 

 

 

It's true that you can't just compare the dds, pick your favourite ones and combine them, but i DO believe if you do a proper and methodical "study" of each texture also in-game, from different distances, taking into account the blending etc and applying some good judgement (and patience) you can have a better looking skyrim by combining different mods. Not saying it's easy, but it's possible.

 

 

 

For instance using your very same argument about staying close to vanilla i personally prefer SHD mountains (combined with "Better Rocks and Mountains" mod) than SRO mountains. Even though SRO are much more detailed from close-by they change the vanilla color quite noticeably and they look much lighter, almost golden, so they change the atmosphere and don't blend so well with other textures like rocks. Similar thing happens with the dirt02 texture and dirtroads, which IMO look too orangey when compared to vanilla.

 

 

 

mountain-vanilla

 

mountain-SHD-BRM

 

mountain-SRO

 

 

 

About the roads of course they have to match with the textures that you pick on the landscape part. As I just mentioned I personally prefer Skyrim HD for the main roads, but since I'm using SRO´s snow and fallforest textures I obviously recommend picking SRO snow and fallforest roads.

 

 

 

Anyhow, sorry for the long ramblings, here's my actual personal recommendation for combining LANDSCAPE textures from SHD, SRO and SERIOUS.

 

 

 

I guess you could call it "PatimPatam's LANDSCAPE MIX" :-P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Install "Skyrim HD - 2K Textures - LANDSCAPE" (remove trees and snow01lod)

 

 

 

 

 

- Overwrite with "Skyrim Realistic Overhaul" selection:

 

 

 

--Landscape--

 

 

 

coastbeach01.dds

 

coastbeach01_n.dds

 

coastbeach02.dds

 

coastbeach02_n.dds

 

coastbeachgrass01.dds

 

coastbeachgrass01_n.dds

 

coastoceanfloor01.dds

 

coastoceanfloor01_n.dds

 

dirtpath01.dds

 

dirtpath01_n.dds

 

dirtsnowpath01.dds

 

dirtsnowpath01_n.dds

 

fallforestdirt01.dds

 

fallforestdirt01_n.dds

 

fallforestgrass01.dds

 

fallforestgrass01_n.dds

 

fallforestleaves01.dds

 

fallforestleaves01_n.dds

 

fallforestrocks01.dds

 

fallforestrocks01_n.dds

 

fieldgrass02.dds

 

fieldgrass02_n.dds

 

frozenmarshdirtslopes01.dds

 

frozenmarshdirtslopes01_n.dds

 

frozenmarshgrass01.dds

 

frozenmarshgrass01_n.dds

 

frozenmarshice01.dds

 

frozenmarshice01_n.dds

 

grasssnow01.dds

 

grasssnow01_n.dds

 

pineforest03.dds

 

pineforest03_n.dds

 

reachdirt01.dds

 

reachdirt01_n.dds

 

riverbededge.dds

 

riverbededge_n.dds

 

riverbottom.dds

 

riverbottom_n.dds

 

snow01.dds

 

snow01_n.dds

 

snow01alta.dds

 

snow02.dds

 

snow02_n.dds

 

tundra01.dds

 

tundra01_n.dds

 

tundra02.dds

 

tundra02_n.dds

 

tundrarocks01.dds

 

tundrarocks01_n.dds

 

volcanictundradirt01.dds

 

volcanictundradirt01_n.dds

 

volcanictundragravel01.dds

 

volcanictundragravel01_n.dds

 

volcanictundraminerals01.dds

 

volcanictundraminerals01_n.dds

 

 

 

--Landscape/Roads--

 

 

 

bridge01.dds

 

bridge01_n.dds

 

road01fallforest01.dds

 

road01snow01.dds

 

road01snow01_n.dds

 

 

 

 

 

- Overwrite with "Real Ice - Azur Glacier Pack" (parallax)

 

 

 

 

 

- Overwrite with "Serious HD Retexture Skyrim" selection:

 

 

 

--Landscape--

 

 

 

icefloes.dds

 

icefloes_n.dds

 

reachmoss01.dds

 

reachmoss01_n.dds

 

reachmossyrocks01.dds

 

reachmossyrocks01_n.dds

 

rivermud.dds

 

rivermud_n.dds

 

snowrocks01.dds

 

snowrocks01_n.dds

 

snowstone01.dds

 

snowstone01_n.dds

 

tundramoss01.dds

 

 

 

 

 

- Overwrite with "Better Rocks and Mountains" (only textures)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I could have made mistakes so if anyone finds an example where the combination suggested doesn't work please let me know (if possible with pictures). I think that would be positive feedback for the community!

 

 

 

 

Yes, i like vanilla textures. But i don't like blue mountains. In nature mountains are mostly yellowish or reddish. They can be blue, but mostly it is mixed with yellow.

Blue, vanilla, mountains don't blend well with dirt which is brownish or yellowish. Grass is also mostly yellowish. This is why i have decided to change color.

Also, color of lighting can change their look. But my mountains definitely don't look gold, and i didn't notice that they break atmosphere. I mean as a big Stalker fan and also modder of this game i value good atmosphere.

 

Your point make no sense.

 

You can make mountains to look blueish or yellowish, but imperative are details.

 

I do like the SRO mountains best, but am unhappy with the snow on the mountains. SHD has much better snow, especially close up. Looks like SRO kept the crappy vanilla snow with minimal change.

I didn't change snow on mountains at all. They look a little bit better because mountain normal maps are more detailed.

 

Next update will have better mountains snow.

 

Btw, what is SHD? Skyrim HD or Serious HD?

[PatimPatam]

@z929669

 

Yep as Starac mentioned i think the better snow is due to the better normal maps of "Better Rocks and Mountains", not SHD.

 

You could even try them on SRO mountains if you like them better than SHD's but they probably won't match the texture, and i bet Starac wouldn't like that either :-P

 

 

@Starac

 

SHD = Skyrim HD

 

Well the fact is that the whole vanilla color palette is clearly off (towards green i would say), but for me the proper way to correct this is via a lighting or post-processing mod, not by changing every single texture in the game.

 

As i mentioned on my first post of this thread I'm using RCRN (Realistic Colors and Real Nights), and with this vanilla and SHD textures look grey to me not blue, a pretty accurate color for rocks I think. Tested on various monitors and on a calibrated Pioneer Kuro plasma.

 

SRO's mountain textures look golden-ish to me and that's why i said they change the feeling (or whatever you want to call it) of the game. If you don't agree then fair enough.

 

 

I would suggest that each one tries the textures with their favourite lighting mod (and screen) and decide on their own!

[z929669]

 

 

 

I do like the SRO mountains best, but am unhappy with the snow on the mountains. SHD has much better snow, especially close up. Looks like SRO kept the crappy vanilla snow with minimal change.

I didn't change snow on mountains at all. They look a little bit better because mountain normal maps are more detailed.

Next update will have better mountains snow.

Btw, what is SHD? Skyrim HD or Serious HD?

SHD = Skyrim HD ... good point. I start using SKYHD = Skyrim HD and SERHD = Serious HD and SROHD = Skyrim Realistic Overhaul... maybe if we spread the word, this will stick. I hate unnecessary typing.

Glad to hear about the snow, and happy that you agree with this point

 

You could even try them on SRO mountains if you like them better than SHD's but they probably won't match the texture' date=' and i bet Starac wouldn't like that either :-P

I can always try swapping only the normal maps from BRAM :D

 

Well the fact is that the whole vanilla color palette is clearly off (towards green i would say) but for me the proper way to correct this is via a lighting or post-processing mod, not by changing every single texture in the game.

This is a really good point

@Starac
Do you think that it is worth considering relative color palettes due to the global effects of post processors (assuming that you agree that the entire SR palette is off)

[Bealdwine]

Just a couple of points - surely the 'correct' colour for mountain rocks generally depends on the nature of the rocks involved. To me Staracs choice reminds me of the sandstones of the cotswolds (an area in the English midlands) while the colour choice in SHD is more like granite or shale rocks. Basically, unless there is a geological map available for the Skyrim highlands neither can be said to be incorrect ;)

 

Likewise there definately was a colour cast to the vanilla game and I agree with zMan and Patim that it appeared to favour the green tint. But the effects of light passing through the atmosphere does tend to give distant objects a bluish hue so that mountains, distant trees, etc would not be incorrect if they carried a blue tint although that would mostly impact the LOD texture rather than the main object texture.

 

My final comment would be about the 'snowy rocks' texture in PatimPatam's screen shots. I have to say that SRO is the most effective at trying to blend differing textures together to avoid the rather jarring and obvious 'edges' however in succeeding in this it also diminishes the attempted effect of the texture. The rocks no longer look especially snow/ice/frost covered. This must be one of the biggest challenges in the whole process of modding textures and I'm not even sure that a 'perfect' solution is possible.

 

As always a huge kudos to all the texture modders out there for the hours of work and the care they put into these mods - most grateful :)

[Starac]

 

@z929669

 

 

 

Yep as Starac mentioned i think the better snow is due to the better normal maps of "Better Rocks and Mountains", not SHD.

 

 

 

You could even try them on SRO mountains if you like them better than SHD's but they probably won't match the texture, and i bet Starac wouldn't like that either :-P

 

 

 

 

 

@Starac

 

 

 

SHD = Skyrim HD

 

 

 

Well the fact is that the whole vanilla color palette is clearly off (towards green i would say), but for me the proper way to correct this is via a lighting or post-processing mod, not by changing every single texture in the game.

 

 

 

As i mentioned on my first post of this thread I'm using RCRN (Realistic Colors and Real Nights), and with this vanilla and SHD textures look grey to me not blue, a pretty accurate color for rocks I think. Tested on various monitors and on a calibrated Pioneer Kuro plasma.

 

 

 

SRO's mountain textures look golden-ish to me and that's why i said they change the feeling (or whatever you want to call it) of the game. If you don't agree then fair enough.

 

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that each one tries the textures with their favourite lighting mod (and screen) and decide on their own!

 

 

 

 

I would not even consider this. Main texture and normal map must match if you want to enhance details. That's the rule. In case of mountains details are the most important because mountains are low-poly, and to much streched - UV mapping. They did this also because of consoles.

 

And "Better Rocks and Mountains" normal maps are not better. They are different then my normals. Because of this snow look good in some places, but in other places it looks very bad, to much pixelated.

 

Snow on mountains is not a texture, so it can not be improved with normal map. It is a vertex color shader.

The best solution is "Better Dynamic Snow" mod, but it also is not perfect.

 

And i don't agree that vanilla colors are totally off. This game is placed in the North. This is not Oblivion.

Actually the best way to change colors is through the textures and then to create proper lighting. Because lighting affect everything, and some textures can look different.

 

Also, your combination looks very weird to me. I'm looking at this picture https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74280697/rocks4-SHD-SERIOUS.jpg and i'm not even sure what this is? It looks like some alien plants. Strange, non detailed. At least my textures look like rocks with snow.

 

Just a couple of points - surely the 'correct' colour for mountain rocks generally depends on the nature of the rocks involved. To me Staracs choice reminds me of the sandstones of the cotswolds (an area in the English midlands) while the colour choice in SHD is more like granite or shale rocks. Basically, unless there is a geological map available for the Skyrim highlands neither can be said to be incorrect

It's very simple actually. Roads, dirt, and grass cover most of this game and have brown/yellow color. Also lower rocks always look yellowish in nature and blend better with dirt. Peaks can look more grayish, but in game this is not important because peaks are covered with snow. And problem is that you can have only one color for all mountains.

 

I mean really, you look at brown/yellow road and on the side is gray/blue rock. It makes no sense.

 

Also the problem with this small snowrocks texture is that it must be designed practically stone by stone, something which i will make later. Stock photo is not solution here.

And this texture snow will always look differently because it's blended in the texture. So intensive normal map will deform snow. But it must be intensive cause texture must not look flat.

[Bealdwine]

@Starac

Thank you. some very interesting points that show some of the difficulties and balances that complicate the texture modding process, you obviously know your stuff :)

 

I'm not sure I agree about the roads vs. rocks issue though, although I understand and respect your view. Roads are either man-made or created by the passage of man/animal and time. Either way they often display a similarity to the local earth ('dirt' in American english) and don't always represent the colouring of the natural rock underlying the area. A road, track, or path seen in the countryside is often quite distinct from the natural environment.

 

That said, from the point of view of texture creation, too great a distinction will look strange and undesirable where the textures meet and I understand that you prefer to aim for a more 'seamless' look in your choices for texture.

 

One question. It has been noted in Windhelm that there are small patches of ice with light reflection - do you know if these are part of the underlying texture or a form of 'decal' overlaying it? If the latter could something similar be used to improve smaller snowy/icy rock textures?

[z929669]

@Starac

To echo Bealdwine regarding Windhelm 'ice' textures. Please see this post and also this post . Your feedback on the effect of DDSopt on this ground texture would be helpful. The blurred vanilla bersion looks wrong to me, and I cannot tell if this should be ice and also I don't see any reflections. The DDSopt'ed versions have more detail and are speckled more with what could be ice or snow, but it is more detailed at least. Those stone/snow/ground meshes are also among the worst in the game IMO.

 

Your textures also appear to be correctly compressed, which is not the case for many vanilla or SKYHD if I remember correctly.

[Starac]

 

@Starac

 

Thank you. some very interesting points that show some of the difficulties and balances that complicate the texture modding process, you obviously know your stuff :)

 

 

 

I'm not sure I agree about the roads vs. rocks issue though, although I understand and respect your view. Roads are either man-made or created by the passage of man/animal and time. Either way they often display a similarity to the local earth ('dirt' in American english) and don't always represent the colouring of the natural rock underlying the area. A road, track, or path seen in the countryside is often quite distinct from the natural environment.

 

 

 

That said, from the point of view of texture creation, too great a distinction will look strange and undesirable where the textures meet and I understand that you prefer to aim for a more 'seamless' look in your choices for texture.

 

 

 

One question. It has been noted in Windhelm that there are small patches of ice with light reflection - do you know if these are part of the underlying texture or a form of 'decal' overlaying it? If the latter could something similar be used to improve smaller snowy/icy rock textures?

 

 

 

 

Roads are man-made, but dirt is not. And remember that this is a game, and you can have only one color for mountains.

Ideal would be to divide mountains to lower and upper, and to have 2 different textures. Lower more yellowish, upper more grayish.

 

@Starac

To echo Bealdwine regarding Windhelm 'ice' textures. Please see this post and also this post . Your feedback on the effect of DDSopt on this ground texture would be helpful. The blurred vanilla bersion looks wrong to me, and I cannot tell if this should be ice and also I don't see any reflections. The DDSopt'ed versions have more detail and are speckled more with what could be ice or snow, but it is more detailed at least. Those stone/snow/ground meshes are also among the worst in the game IMO.

 

Your textures also appear to be correctly compressed, which is not the case for many vanilla or SKYHD if I remember correctly.

This Windhelm texture is frozen mud. Dirty ice.

 

I have actually forget to include this texture normal map in my mod. Next 1.3 update will have it. It looks like this:

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/518782-skyrim-realistic-overhaul/page__view__findpost__p__5131637

 

To achieve ice effect you need ice texture and whitish alpha channel applied to normal map. Ice texture can also be blended on top of dirt texture. Or you can paint ice on dirt texture, something which i did.

I think that reflecting effect also can be enhanced through mesh. I don't work with meshes though.