ENB and RCRN 3.6 Question? - [SOLVED]

[Deathwing514]

Dear Step Community,

 

Like many of you, I have been testing out different post processing specs to see which combination of mods would make my game look incredible.

 

However, after reading through some comments on the forums of  SkyRealisim, RCRN, and Step forums, I am currently in doubt whether or not a combination of mods such as a ENB and RCRN would be compatible or even viable.

 

On the Skyrealism forum, One of the authors named MTichenor,  replied this to Darthrevan316 regarding the compatibility with RCRN and SkyRealism

 

"@DarthRevan316

 

Do NOT use ENB with RCRN. Pick one or the other.

 

To give you an analogy, using two different post-processing systems (such as ENB and RCRN) is like wear two pairs of prescription glasses. Wearing one or the other will make things look better, but if you wear both at the same time, you can't see s***.

 

If you want some help figuring out which one to use...

 

Here's the rundown on RCRN: They have a fancy web page filled with awesome graphics and lots of buzz-words, and a custom installer. They use the Creation Kit to tweak the imagespaces in Skyrim and add a standard FXAA post-process that can be found by Googling "FXAA". It has 3 different presets, all of which are very well done. RCRN is like Macintosh; Pretty packaging, lots of buzz words, and a loyal fan-base of people who can't figure out how to do it themselves and are easily impressed.

 

Here's the rundown on ENB: It's a custom piece of software written by Boris Vorontsov, and uses custom programmed DirectX DLL file to run custom shader code, and change literally every aspect of the rendering system through an INI file with literally hundreds of different settings that you can tweak yourself. It's difficult to use, requiring manual installation and tweaking of several Skyrim INI file settings, and requires a User Manual to figure out what all the settings mean. ENB Evolved has some highly sophisticated custom Depth of Field and HSV color correction algorithms (written by me) which you can change to suit your tastes as well. ENB Evolved has 11 different presets, and ENB in general has 300+ different variants found on SkyrimNexus alone. ENB is like Linux; Custom software designed for experts who want to change everything to make it perfectly suited to their own tastes. "

 

On the ENB Visual Comparision topic on Step

 

Besidilo stated " RLwC, CoT, and RCRN should not be mixed unless the user is attempting to play around with a lot of unknowns."

 

So my question is, from the information that I have gathered from these post, would you also advise myself to only choose one or the other and not combine them both?

Is there truly a incompatibility with combining these mods together that it might cause lighting issues such as a blinding snow effect that I have heard from others?

I know Compiler has a mod called RCRN Plus that includes both, but It seems most of the authors of enbs/rcrn all advise its users to not combine them.

 

What are your thoughts on the matter?

[TechAngel85]

It states right there are the RCRN Web site that you can use an ENB with it. Most everyone involved with STEP uses a combination. Z uses SkyRealism with RLwC. I personally use SkyRealism - Cinematic preset with RCRN - Classic preset. RCRN is a lot more than what this guy is saying too (sounds like he's not a RCRN user). It's has dynamic lighting and weathers, the FXAA isn't generic as they have optimized it, RCRN also has volumetric fog and more.

 

From the sounds of the wording, you found a couple of "purest" who have extreme views....black or white; no gray. It's completely safe to mix these and with testing.

 

It is true that the ENBSeries is very complex and it's impossible to find complete documentation on it. However, the most important aspects are documented. You can turn off Bloom, DOF, and SSAO which are your huge performance drainers.

 

The STEP creator, TC, has created a specialized version of RCRN which uses SMAA over FXAA which provides greater AA results. He coupled it with SkyRealism. Also, one of our admins, Z, created ENB presets using SkyRealism for RLwC, CoT, and RCRN.

 

So put simply, you can mix the two without any issues at all. This may depend on the ENB you are using though. Some don't mix well while other mix superbly. SkyRealism is one of the those that mixes very well with all three! Don't mix Project ENB with anything other than CoT or you'll see some of these issues. The Wilds and Seasons of Skyrim both have some issues with certain lighting mods too. Ultimately, you'll just have to test it out and see if there are issues; most of which will be lighting issues such as the sky being grayed out and everything looking washed.

[TechAngel85]

Here are some screenshots of the RCRN mixed the SkyRealism - Cinematic for you to see for yourself if they work well. (these are from my game that I actually play)

 

 

 

As you can see, there are no lighting issues at all.

[Deathwing514]

@ technagel85

 

Thanks your for the reply and even more so on the screenshots.

 

When I first read your reply, while observing your screenshots, I was completely dumbfounded on why my screenshots for my game did not look as similar compared to yours.

 

In my game, using the combination of Skyrealism and RCRN together caused major lighting issues such as blinding snow texture, NPC/character having a shiny forehead, and color issues that made my game look bleak.

 

However, after reading your comment the 2nd time, I realized that the version of Skyrealism that you were using was completely different from mine.

The version that you were using was the Cinematic version while I was using the recommended Compiler version which was the Vibrant Edition.

 

When I changed the Skyrealism version to cinematic, the problems such as the blinding snow textures and shiny forehead on NPC seemed to be removed.

 

Now my last question to you is, can u give me some of the location of your screenshots so that I can make similar screenshots to compare if I am getting the similar quality as yours? Thanks

 

PS: Did you install any major mods that would make your screenshots look alot better? (not talking about texture mods but any extra lighting mods that could effect the picture)

[TechAngel85]

@ technagel85

 

Thanks your for the reply and even more so on the screenshots.

 

When I first read your reply, while observing your screenshots, I was completely dumbfounded on why my screenshots for my game did not look as similar compared to yours.

 

In my game, using the combination of Skyrealism and RCRN together caused major lighting issues such as blinding snow texture, NPC/character having a shiny forehead, and color issues that made my game look bleak.

 

However, after reading your comment the 2nd time, I realized that the version of Skyrealism that you were using was completely different from mine.

The version that you were using was the Cinematic version while I was using the recommended Compiler version which was the Vibrant Edition.

 

When I changed the Skyrealism version to cinematic, the problems such as the blinding snow textures and shiny forehead on NPC seemed to be removed.

 

Now my last question to you is, can u give me some of the location of your screenshots so that I can make similar screenshots to compare if I am getting the similar quality as yours? Thanks

 

PS: Did you install any major mods that would make your screenshots look alot better? (not talking about texture mods but any extra lighting mods that could effect the picture)

Sure and you're welcome! Just so you know, TC changed from the Vibrant to the Vanilla preset back in v1.4 because of lighting issues he was facing. You can view that in his change log on his Nexus page.

 

The only other lighting mod I have installed is the Real Candle Effect mod. Everything else, lighting wise, is strictly RCRN with the Classic night preset (not RCRN Plus) and SkyRealism Cinematic.

 

I took all shots with the ENB feature. Using the console, ~ key. Type in tm and hit enter and the ~ key again. Press "Prt Sc" button to take your shot. This toogles the menus off so you get a nice clear shot. Just hit the ~ key, type in tm again and hit enter to bring the menus back. Your screenshots will be in your main Skyrim folder by default and saved as a .png file. You can also type in tfc into the console to have free contol over the camera. Here's a good tutorial.

 

1st and 6th shots are at High Hrothgar in the main area right inside the door. 2nd shot is interior of Dragonsreach in Whiterun. 3rd and 4th are outside of Riverwood on the path leading to Bleak Falls Barrow. The last one is on the edge of Yngvild, Northeast of Dawnstar (used Real Ice textures).

[Deathwing514]

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

A few more questions if you dont mind.

 

1. What exactly does volumetric fog actually do? I am looking at the screenshots in RCRN but cant see much of a difference? Also which one do you use? Subtle or Heavy?

 

2. Are you using Cinematic original or with brighter metals?

 

3. Have you tried SSAO? If so, can you give me a brief explanation as to what this setting actually changes? I have been doing comparison shots with SSAO on and SSAO off and so far have seen only these differences

 

a. Makes shadows alot darker

b. Makes the environments such as grass, landscape, structures. etc alot more darker in color (examples grasses are much more darker compared to SSAO off)

 

I have been told consistently that SSAO makes the biggest quality improvements but cant justify it if all it does is make the landscape darker.

 

If you or anyone from step can explain this to me, I will be very grateful

[TechAngel85]

Ambient Occlusion

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

A few more questions if you dont mind.

 

1. What exactly does volumetric fog actually do? I am looking at the screenshots in RCRN but cant see much of a difference? Also which one do you use? Subtle or Heavy?

 

2. Are you using Cinematic original or with brighter metals?

 

3. Have you tried SSAO? If so, can you give me a brief explanation as to what this setting actually changes? I have been doing comparison shots with SSAO on and SSAO off and so far have seen only these differences

 

a. Makes shadows alot darker

b. Makes the environments such as grass, landscape, structures. etc alot more darker in color (examples grasses are much more darker compared to SSAO off)

 

I have been told consistently that SSAO makes the biggest quality improvements but cant justify it if all it does is make the landscape darker.

 

If you or anyone from step can explain this to me, I will be very grateful

You're welcome! :D

 

1. Volumetric Fog is suppose to add depth to the fog making it feel "thicker" than vanilla fog. I use the light version on the manual install and have never used the Customizer so I'm assuming it's whatever the default is.

 

2. Original Cinematic. I've never tried the Brighter Metals version.

 

3. I turn off SSAO on all the ENBs I've tried for two reasons. One, my system isn't that great (G7 laptop with GTX 460M) and it affects performance more than I like. And two, I force AO via vNidia Inspector which I've found to have little to no performance loss. You are right about it making things darker. It's suppose to make lighting more realistic. That's the best explanation I come up with.  Just note that SSAO and AO in nVidia drivers are not exactly the same thing though they have a similar effect. AO is global and SSAO is more local (idk what that means...just read it from wikipedia). Maybe someone who uses SSAO can give you a better explanation.

 

From Wikipedia:

Compared to other ambient occlusion solutions, SSAO has the following advantages:

• Independent from scene complexity.
• No data pre-processing needed, no loading time and no memory allocations in system memory.
• Works with dynamic scenes.
• Works in the same consistent way for every pixel on the screen.
• No CPU usage – it can be executed completely on the GPU.
• May be easily integrated into any modern graphics pipeline.

Of course it has its disadvantages as well:

• Rather local and in many cases view-dependent, as it is dependent on adjacent texel depths which may be generated by any geometry whatsoever.
• Hard to correctly smooth/blur out the noise without interfering with depth discontinuities, such as object edges (the occlusion should not "bleed" onto objects).

Here is a very good comparison from nVidia: Ambient Occlusion  Just scroll down a little bit and they have 7 comparisons. Use the sliders to see the changes. These are nVidia AO samples; not SSAO. EDIT: from what I read AO is not available on AMD drivers...someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Here is a screenshot. Just mouse over the picture to see SSAO on and remove the mouse to see it without SSAO.

 

PS. I also turn off DOF because I don't like it and I move Bloom quality from 0 to 1. I set my AF in Inspector to x16 as well.

[Deathwing514]

Thanks again for answering all my questions.

 

It seems SSAO does exactly what i described it did. Whether or not it is worth the 5-8 fps drop that i get from it is still debatable on my end.

 

I have also tested out the brighter metal version and found out that everything in skyrim is a bit more orange compared to the original cinematic version.

 

Hopefully the author of Skyrealism will update his mod to the latest enb which has been stated to increase performance by a good margin.

[Besidilo]

SSAO is great under the right circumstances. It really makes a difference to some sceneries. Try it on with a lot of objects under midday daylight.