TES5Edit (by ElminsterAU)

[Aiyen]

The main issue is that most mod authors do not really copy in the values from the DLC or unofficial patches, but instead from the vanilla game only.

This provides issues for those who does have everything. But most of the time it is minor things like typing errors, wrong armor types, or sounds playing when they are not supposed too etc.

 

The more mods you install the more unstable the game becomes because of the game engine having to deal with more options. So by making sure that most things are streamlined one makes sure the game is a bit more stable in the long run, since it does not have to spend time with small internal conflicts.

[f1schu]

Hi there im trying to get a better understanding of conflict resolution using Tes5Edit, I'm slowly getting an idea of the basics as im working through Neo's great guide, applying the different edits and forwarding changes from the unofficial patches etc...

 

 

Now while I was doing some of the required edits to forward changes from the USKP to the Ants in my pants.esp I noticed that there was a conflict with update.esm as you can see in the SS below.

 

 

The masters for Ants in my Pants.esp are Skyrim.esm & Hearthfires.esm and not Update.esm, so what I would like to know is this, 'should I drag the record from update.esm to Ants in my pants.esp to remove the conflict or should i leave it alone as update.esm is not one of its masters?

 

Thanx :)

[Vond]

I'd have a look with USKP loaded and see if USKP overwrites Update.esm or not. Otherwise any change from Update.esm should overwrite things from Skyrim.esm, meaning yes to your question if you should copy it over and thus add Update.esm as a dependency. In this particular case I doubt it has much effect on anything whatsoever, but still. :)

[f1schu]

Thanks for the reply buddy, I will have a look with the USKP loaded and take a look, I wasnt sure if changes from update.esm should overwrite things from Skyrim.esm so thanks for clearing that up for me :)

[CrispyWalrus]

Hi there im trying to get a better understanding of conflict resolution using Tes5Edit, I'm slowly getting an idea of the basics as im working through Neo's great guide...

 

Hi! :)  Could you possibly add a link to this TES5Edit Conflict Resolution guide you reference?  I've looked in the Guides & Tutorials section but am not seeing it.  Thanks in advance and my apologies if I turn out to be blind and it is there!

[EssArrBee]

If you really want to learn about TES5Edit then reading through the FNVEdit Training Manual is the best source of info. Different game but the program works the same way, and it is over a hundred pages of info to go through.

[CrispyWalrus]

Thanks for that link I will take a look at that-- likely missed it since I've only been searching on TES5Edit.

 

I've watched Sharlikran's merge and conflict videos at least a half-dozen times each and have a really decent understanding now of the how of TES5Edit but not exactly the why...

 

In other words I get how to effect the changes I need to so that a certain record wins out in load order but don't know what all the records do-- which to "fix" and which to ignore.

 

For example (and since we are in Neovalen's section) if you look at the advised TES5Edit fixes recommended between the two plugins-- Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp and Waterbreathing Breathless Emerge.esp it mentions fixing the "Subtype" record in Waterbreathing Breathless Emerge.esp \ Dialog Topic \ 0010EEA4 with that from Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp \ Dialog Topic \ 0010EEA4.

 

Well underneath that are three other records in conflict:

0010EEA4 \ 0010EEA5

0010EEA4 \ 0010F18D

0010EEA4 \ 0010F18E

 

These all conflict too but if I follow Neovalen's guide I should seemingly leave the conflicts in?

 

For example, the first one-- 0010EEA4 \ 0010EEA5:

(I tried to color code the diffs but since in a code block tags aren't interpreted I couldn't, so instead I commented at column 80 but code block doesn't resize to fit screen width apparently so they are hard to spot-- sorry)

 

In Waterbreathing Breathless Emerge.esp:

 

Record Header
  Signature: TES4
  Data Size: 174
  Record Flags
  FormID: NULL - Null Reference [00000000]
  Version Control Info 1: 00 00 00 00
  Form Version: 40
  Version Control Info 2: 00 00
HEDR - Header
  Version: 0.940000
  Number of Records: 6
  Next Object ID: 16782020
CNAM - Author: Alek (mitchalek@yahoo.com)
SNAM - Description: Disables water emerging breath sound if under the effect of waterbreathing.
Master Files
  Master File
    MAST - Filename: Skyrim.esm
    DATA - Unknown: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
INTV - Unknown: 01 00 00 00
GRUP Top "DIAL"
  Record Header
    Signature: DIAL
    Data Size: 50
    Record Flags
    FormID: DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
    Version Control Info 1: 00 00 00 00
    Form Version: 40
    Version Control Info 2: 01 00
  PNAM - Priority: 50.000000
  QNAM - Quest: QUST - Quest [00013EB3] <DialogueGeneric> "Generic dialogue"
  DATA - Data
    Topic Flags
    Unknown: 07
    Subtype: EnterBowZoomBreath                                                 <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
  SNAM - Subtype Name: LWBS
  TIFC - Info Count: 3
  GRUP Topic Children of DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
    
      Topic: DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
      Record Header
        Signature: INFO
        Data Size: 155
        Record Flags
        FormID: INFO - Dialog response [0010EEA5] (in GRUP Topic Children of DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4])
        Version Control Info 1: 00 00 00 00
        Form Version: 40
        Version Control Info 2: 03 00
      ENAM - Response flags
        Flags: No LIP File
        Reset Hours: 0.000000
      PNAM - Previous INFO: NULL - Null Reference [00000000]
      CNAM - Favor Level: None
      Responses
        Response
          TRDT - Response Data
            Emotion Type: Neutral
            Emotion Value: 50
            Response number: 1
            Sound: NULL - Null Reference [00000000]
            Flags
          NAM1 - Response Text: 
          NAM2 - Script Notes
          NAM3 - Edits
          Conditions
            Condition
              CTDA -
                Type: Equal to
                Unknown: A9 4E 2B
                Comparison Value - Float: 1.000000
                Function: GetIsVoiceType
                Unknown: 29 01
                Voice Type: FLST - FormID List [00068ACA] <VoicesPlayer>
                None: 00 00 00 00
                Run On: Subject
: 0
                Parameter #3: -1
            Condition
              CTDA -
                Type: Equal to
                Unknown: A9 4E 2B
                Comparison Value - Float: 0.000000
                Function: GetActorValue
                Unknown: 29 01
                Actor Value: Water Breathing
                None: 00 00 00 00
                Run On: Subject
: 0
                Parameter #3: -1

 

And in USKP:

 

  Record Header
    Signature: DIAL
    Data Size: 50
    Record Flags
    FormID: DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
    Version Control Info 1: 00 00 00 00
    Form Version: 43
    Version Control Info 2: 01 00
  PNAM - Priority: 50.000000
  QNAM - Quest: QUST - Quest [00013EB3] <DialogueGeneric> "Generic dialogue"
  DATA - Data
    Topic Flags
    Unknown: 07
    Subtype: LeaveWaterBreath                                                   <!-- *** RECOMMENDED CHANGE *** -->
  SNAM - Subtype Name: LWBS
  TIFC - Info Count: 3
  GRUP Topic Children of DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
    
      Topic: DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4]
      Record Header
        Signature: INFO
        Data Size: 193
        Record Flags
        FormID: INFO - Dialog response [0010EEA5] (in GRUP Topic Children of DIAL - Dialog Topic [0010EEA4])
        Version Control Info 1: 00 00 00 00
        Form Version: 43
        Version Control Info 2: 03 00
      ENAM - Response flags
        Flags: No LIP File
        Reset Hours: 0.000000
      PNAM - Previous INFO: NULL - Null Reference [00000000]
      CNAM - Favor Level: None
      Responses
        Response
          TRDT - Response Data
            Emotion Type: Neutral
            Emotion Value: 50
            Response number: 1
            Sound: NULL - Null Reference [00000000]
            Flags
          NAM1 - Response Text: 
          NAM2 - Script Notes
          NAM3 - Edits
          Conditions
            Condition
              CTDA -
                Type: Equal to
                Unknown: 00 D0 2C
                Comparison Value - Float: 0.00000000                            <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Function: GetPCIsRace                                           <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Unknown: DB 2C
                Race: RACE - Race [00013740] <ArgonianRace> "Argonian"          <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                None: 00 00 00 00
                Run On: Subject
: 0
                Parameter #3: -1
            Condition
              CTDA -
                Type: Equal to
                Unknown: 00 D0 2C
                Comparison Value - Float: 0.000000
                Function: GetPCIsRace                                           <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Unknown: DB 2C
                Race: RACE - Race [0008883A] <ArgonianRaceVampire> "Argonian"   <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                None: 00 00 00 00
                Run On: Subject
: 0
                Parameter #3: -1
            Condition
              CTDA -
                Type: Equal to                                                  <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Unknown: 00 D0 2C
                Comparison Value - Float: 1.000000                              <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Function: GetIsVoiceType                                        <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                Unknown: DB 2C
                Voice Type: FLST - FormID List [00068ACA] <VoicesPlayer>        <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
                None: 00 00 00 00
                Run On: Subject                                                 <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->
: 0
                Parameter #3: -1                                                <!-- *** CONFLICTING VALUE BUT NO CHANGE RECOMMENDED *** -->

 

So how do should I know which conflicts to fix and which to ignore?

[rootsrat]

Mostly by applying common sense ;)

 

I most often ignore the ones I am not sure about.

 

Anything that seems like an unintentional change, carried over from Skyrim.esm and overwriting either Update.esm or unnoficial patches should be corrected.

[nu4nc3]

Hi All,

 

This is probably going to come across as a silly question to veterans like yourselves, but throughout the Skyrim Revisited guide there are prompts for: "This mod does not carry forward changes from x"...

 

Now as much as that comment makes sense, I personally don't know, but would like to know what impact that actually has (not on a specific issue but as a generalization)

 

Part of my reasoning is simply that the vanilla STEP Project doesn't include any such references, yet includes many of the same patches, so I'm curious if there are any significant and detrimental implications.

 

Also, references toward the likes of Wild Edits; I presume that the simple TES5Edit "Remove duplications to masters" and "Undelete and Unreference" aren't enough to resolve these?

 

Does the regarding TES5Edit's "Remove..." and "Undelete..." also apply to the previously mentioned "This mod does not carry forward changes from x" references?

 

Thanks in advance and again, my apologies for my noobishness.

-Nu4nc3

[rootsrat]

No need to apologise. STEP guide is intended to be simple guide, that regular user that has no experience/knowledge about modding will be able to use to enhance their gaming experience. SR is a one-man project that used STEP as a base and it's for users that wish to put some more effort and also learn a bit about mods, conflicts etc.

 

The changes that SR mentions are not crucial for the game to work properly, but here and there there would be some inconsistencies. They wool not break your game, nor will they cause any CTDs etc.

 

Cleaning mods (I.e. removing identical to master entries and undeleting references) is something else, when you run BOSS you will notice that some of the plugins (esp files) have a note that states 'This mood contains dirty edits and should be cleaned with TES5EDIT'. And that's when you should leaf that mood into T5E, apply fleet for cleaning and then remove identical records and undelete references.

 

'Wild edits' in short are accidental changes that were not intended by a given mod, for example a weather mod could change weapon damage values - that's a wild edit

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Aiyen]

Most of the changes made are because of the following reasons.

1: A mod have been made without all the DLC, hence there are some entries missing.

2: A mod have been made using an older version of Skyrim, hence some entries have been patched by Bethesda but are not in the mod because it was made before the patch.

3: A mod have not been made with the unofficial patches in mind, hence the changes there are not carried over into the mod. (Since all mods load after the unofficial patches, then in order to preserve the changes the mod needs the unofficial entries to be preset. Otherwise a given change might be restored to vanilla values, and bugs that where solved will happen again.)

 

On their own most of these inconsistencies do not cause any large instability of incompatibility etc. But when you have a mod list as large as SR then they very quickly add up and cause stability issues. In order to reduce this then the changes are made.

In the long run then perhaps someone will make a filter that could make sure that a given mod always has the correct values from all DLC and unofficial patches, but for now we have to do it manually, entry for entry.

 

Wild edits, are normally due to a mod author or just the CK have saved some entries that are in no way related to the mod at all, but has slipped through the cranks anyways.

 

The cleaning filter just tests if a mod has completely identical entries with the Vanilla masters. If they are identical there is no reason to have them in the mod at all.

 

Someone else is doubtlessly going to go into more detail then I am! But hope it answers your questions somewhat!

[nu4nc3]

Thanks for the quick reply rootsrat; much of it I'm familiar with already, just seeking clarification on some points. I've been following BOSS' guidance on the original STEP Project anyway, I was just concerned how much impact the additional info would actually have, so thanks for the answer!

 

Re-reading my original question I see I probably wasn't very clear on the last bits though; So for the wild edits; are those manual repairs only, or can the apply filter / clean identical / undel & unref functions fix those also?

 

The same goes with the "Does not carry forward", are those manual only repairs only, or can the apply filter / clean ident / undel & unref function fix those too?

 

-Nu4nc3

[nu4nc3]

Aiyen, Thank you also for your reply! So in short there's no way to allow any sort of auto-inheritance of previous changes? I suppose that makes sense actually as how would such a thing know what is modded vs what is a fix. I guess knowing that exact difference only really comes from experience of what you're looking at combined with knowing what the mod itself intends to do / change.

[rootsrat]

All manual I'm afraid :)

[nu4nc3]

Had a feeling you were going to say that :)

 

Thanks again all!

 

-Nu4nc3