z929669

It will go much faster if you use a non-solid compression flag, you can set that up in bash and your favorite compression program. Do tell. I know about setting this in 7z gui, but not in bash and the 7z exe that it uses.

The worst part is waiting for saves to load and installing/uninstalling the compressed Wrye Bash optimized vanilla texture packs. Literally takes about 5x-10x longer on the older rig than my current one

I side with the mod purist camp. Sounds like fog-fiddling is the first step in the direction of what is to be a weather mod called "Realistic Lighting". Why not make a separate weather mod already??

Good points both. Will preserve, mark as defunct and lock the thread in its current residence just in case it is someday revived.

Water textures use normal tangent-space maps (I think), and these must be treated specially. DDSopt has provisions for this, but my guess is that OT and STMC do not.

OK, I set up my old P4 box. Here are the REAL specs: Intel P4 Extreme 3.2 GHz (Dell XPS-Gen2) 2 Gb RAM ATI 4650-1Gb (AGP) - 1024 X 768 RAID0 (fairly slow ex, since drives are 9+ years old [WD Raptors @7200) Needless to say that Bealwine's and Monty's boxes are beasts in comparison.... Only getting about 15 FPS in pure vanilla with low-med preset config. Will optimize config and test diffs using this old lady of a rig.

Make a savegame in a dungeon looking at each item. Now take screenshots with the standard step mods, now exit and install nordic ruins overwriting all and reload the savegames and take comparison screenshots.That is one way to do it... :P Isn't there an app to compare textures file too? Thanks... You can Google the Comressonator for that. Very nice, however, you will not see it in proper context (i.e., wrapped around the mesh). I know that you can use NifScope and the CK to do this, but not sure if normal maps are rendered accurately in each of those.

yeah but,1) Ugrids to 7 helps a lot with (IMO) little performance hit.. 2) Fog is not everywhere in real life.. 3) Fog is an "old school" (and ugly) way to hide "pop up".... Of course YMMV and all that.... I hear you on the notion of "ubiquitous" fog. It should vary by time and place. uGrids 7 resolves, but not sure that I will have VRAM to use with full STEP. We shall see. And you will still get popup with uGrids 7 :P

I personally like view restrictions cause by fog (as long as the fog looks right). I think it increases immersion and "mystery" of what lies ahead. I also hate objects and details "popping" out due to default uGrids setting. I'd be more interested in a fog enhancement mod ;)

An great example of what a dash of Wrye Bash and a bit of documentation can achieve ;)

No problem. There is a civil and valid dialogue that you (others?) and Starac are engaged in, so I do not wish to impose myself in any manner other than to ask that it be continued in the "General Discussion" > "Non-STEP Related" forum wherever/whenever it detracts from the topic of SRO explicitly ... just in case this draws a bigger audience. @ Starac, If you wish to continue this debate, please feel free to do so on a new thread in the other forum. Otherwise, we look forward to any other input you might have regarding SRO as it evolves or in response to others on that topic. @ The Community Anyhone feel free to open up a doalogue in the general forum RE this topic or anything else "off topic" that does not logically fit within the context of the other available forums. Cheers, z

Actually, with respect to GPU Load on HD textures, DDSopt'ed textures cost just a tiny fraction more than non-DDSopt'ed. (less that 1%), and this likely does not translate in to any detectable FPS loss even on a low-mid system. The real benefit is in terms of VRAM savings (about 2.8% on average for HD textures) and mip-map correction as well as texture optimization. (this I think relates to the "smudge" correction in Windhelm and fir trees in Riverwood). I will definitely test again on all STEP 2.1 once installed. Just wanted to get a baseline using vanilla and a very clean setup. Would love to see how these differences perform on a lower-end system. I have a P4 with ATI 4770-1Gb card and 2 Gb RAM that I could test on, but that could take some time to set up ;) EDIT: forgot to answer s4n's questions explicitly.... 1. I noticed no diff in performance during game play, but I also have a pretty juiced system, and if you look at my FPS, I am likely running well withing my FPS cap. Would need to use a low-mid end system to test for sure, but VRAM is also within max, so this would really only increase the ceiling of texture load for 1 Gb cards. 2. Settings I used are same as I show at bottom. Added clarification to that post.

EDIT: The missing contents of this post are being added to the DDSopt Guide now on the Wiki . I found an interesting result with regard to fir trees and foliage in general. More specifically, mid-long range foliage in general: DDSopt corrects mip maps that are not scaling properly in the vanilla textures. Notice that in the Riverwood images (above) and in the following, the mod-long-distance trees are bushier and softer in the standard textures and more crisp and bristly in the DDSopt'ed versions. I am guessing that this is a correction, because the tree in the foreground of the following images is identical, but only in the DDSopt'ed version do the mid-long firs match the close up. Similarly, I like the DDSopt'ed stonework in Windhelm better than the standard (see above). TreesTrees-DDSoptIn general, DDSopt'ed textures look comparable, and in many cases better than standard. Additionally, there is a respectable performance boost in terms of VRAM using these settings (which are what I used in the processes described above):Performance Change Summary (Standard Vanilla Textures --> DDSopt'ed Vanilla Textures) 3.3% VRAM increase (Hi rig) UPDATE--> Adding Skyrim HD1k to the mix boosts this up to 5.0% VRAM increase5.0% VRAM increase (Lo rig)0% net FPS boost (Hi & Lo rigs)0.8% GPU Load decrease (Hi rig)1.2% GPU Load increase (Lo rig)I venture to guess that these performance boosts will accumulate with application to other less-than-optimized texture mods used in STEP.

Starac, Thanks again for contributing your insights. It may be that we are wrestling with slight language and cultural barriers here. Nevertheless, I don't think that we need say anything more about subjective opinions concerning approaches to communication. We appreciate your input and feedback and look forward to more of this from you and other mod authors. Again, your insights are appreciated. @The Community As long as we all can remain tolerant and avoid taking things personally, perceptions of insult or offense should be easily deflected or ignored. Thanks for your cooperation

What I am currently testing is optimization effects on FPS/VRAM rather than reduction (using vanilla textures as previously). I will look at reduction effects on FPS/VRAM once I install full hi/lo STEP 2.1

OK, that code works like a charm... just need to put quotes around the skyrimPath declaration (line 21)

Yep, looking for Steam install path will be more consistent then. I should have thought of that, duh. Including the whole Valve ky FYI. What you want is first lines:

Just uninstalled Skyrim, uninstalled Steam, rebooted, reinstalled Steam, reinstalled Skyrim ... NO key as you have indicated. First time, I installed using the DVD, this time, I installed Steam from the web and Skyrim through Steam. The only keys with my Skyrim install path are: Go figure ...?

I used to be an adventurer like you... until my follower shot an arrow to my knee :(ok, sorry, I will never again even come close to this quote, and he actually only shot it into my back :@

Good points... SMCO has few options, and it seems like one can only run that on their installed SR textures. This would need to be tested on both hi STEP and low STEP full installs IMO in order to get accurate info that is reproducible. Tougher to test at the mod level though. OT has several options, so I think that one is going to be pretty mysterious like DDSopt. Doc sucks pretty badly on both. Once I get STEP 2.1 installed, I will do the 'textures folder' thing with SMCO and DDSopt to get an idea of what the former is doing and measure the cost/benefit.

Thanks for weighing in Starac. Always good to have the mod author provide inside details that others may not be aware of. First off, I recognize SRO as being most true to vanilla AND superior to vanilla (including HD). I also agree with your approach and general philosophy. The points where I differ with your opinion are twofold: 1. Beth has done an amazing artistic job with Skyrim. But they certainly DID NOT get everything right, as some of their textures and meshes are just plain shabby or inaccurate. (this is why Brumbek and you have so many admirers ;)). SRO improves upon the vanilla style by adding better detail, but in some rare cases, an improvement on vanilla requres that a texture AND its mesh be thrown away and redeveloped from scratch (interior wood walls are a good example IMO). 2. Modders come in many flavors. Some specialize in aesthetic improvements (e.g., texture/mesh art) and others work with game behavior (e.g., scripting/programming), so I assume that you argue that the former are the only group really qualified to properly judge the work of graphics modders. I could not disagree more. The best critics of ANYTHING are often not crafters of that thing (e.g., movie/food/art critics). A good game-art critic need only have a good eye and attention to detail... nothing more. Non-modding critics can actually be better judges of final product than other modders, as the former are not biased by the understanding of the effort required to achieve the result. While effort paid is admirable, it may have no bearing on the result. Sometimes the easiest and fastest method can achieve the best result, but it may be best not to bias the critics with the methods used or this can detract from the result. Does one need to be an automotive manufacturer to judge the best-looking car? I think mixing texture packs provides a viable solution to achieving the optimal result. I also think that mod users have a lot to offer mod creators. Cheers, and thanks for the great texture pack

Functionally, this is content, effectively, it is aesthetic. Problem is that this kind of thing can cause conflicts that no pure graphic mod will typically even approach. Therefore, I have to side with content. This adds, but it does not change, right? Love the aesthetics, but the 'graphic' element is a stretch methinks. If this gets in, then new sounds must also be allowed... If one can kill or otherwise change the behavior of the birds, then I'd say that new weapons & armor and whatever else is also 'graphic'.

Looking at the latest on this (and this guy is pretty meticulous), I have to say that all around, with respect to every shot, closing my eyes and envisioning similar experiences in my own life, TV ENB is the most true to reality IMO. It really shines for interiors, daytime, twilight and night exteriors... absolutely gorgeous; however, it really suffers badly with respect to water. It just falls down in that category (so does 'A Realistic Hope, which I really like for its DOF effect and to some extent RL). Due to TV ENB dealing with water so badly in the presence of ambient light, I have to say that RCRN and Immersive Env are the best all around, but both are a bit excessive in the 'darkness' department, particularly with regard to interiors. Windows should glow a bit more at night, too (but both treat water very nicely). I want to use TV ENB with a change to fix the water at dusk/dawn and I would want a good DOF filter as well. This all likely costs in performance though, which I am not worried about in terms of FPS. My guess is that I can customize RCRN to look the way I want it, no?

Agreed. best test for something is 'something' + vanilla setup. Reduces noise. Cumulative testing is certainly valuable, but 'epistatic' effects are very difficult to pinpoint.

followers AI in Beth games are pretty lame, and SR has not seen any improvement IMO. They only really work (sort of) in interior cells.