Latest Skyrim Unofficial Patches and Mod Organizer

[Kuldebar]

I've only started using MO a month or so ago, it's ingenious and indispensable; there's no going back to another mod management system. I haven't had to perform the ritual of reinstalling Skyrim or 200+ mods since becoming a MO user.

 

This brings me to the latest Unofficial Skyrim Patches...

 

All were updated fairly recently, before starting a new game I decided to get all my patches updated. Now I have problems where I didn't have any before. (Braith NPC in Whiterun becomes totally to partially invisible is the main issue)

 

Perusing the USP forums on Nexus I run across this "warning" :

If you are using Mod Organizer and are here to report issues with dragon souls, sorry, but you're on your own as we do not support issues caused by incorrectly letting that program modify the BSA load order system the game has. Your post is likely to just be ignored. We don't have time to keep fending off false bug reports caused by people who insist on unpacking their BSA files using the program and thus subverting the entire system the game relies on for proper behavior.

Well, that's just lovely! I always have MO unpack BSA's, it's one of its strengths and "de-complicates" mod installations. I don't have an issue with Dragon Souls, but I get the distinct impression that mentioning you are a user of Mod Organizer is a sure way to get sidelined when you make a post asking for help.

 

Since updating my USP files (I don't have the old versions any more) I have also noticed that my bash patches are a lot more inclusive than before, the unofficial patches are including more tagsto be bashed in them. (I let Wrye Bash do its default thing plus some Tweaks) I use BOSS (BOSS sorts the new USP files incorrectly though) and clean my mods using Gopher's videos as a guide...

 

My Mod Load Order that's served me well in the past, not shown is Skyrim Unbound which I had disabled for troubleshooting purposes.

 

This NPC Braith Glitch thing isn't a game breaker but I don't like "mysterious" problems like this in a new game (I've tried several new game starts.) Braith is acting normally except for fading into invisibility, gradually from feet up and then, poof! Gone...but still there. If I kill her, she's no longer invisible. I'm tired of putting dozens of hours into a game and then hitting bug city, that's been mostly eliminated in the last month due to careful mod selection and recent memory fixes. But, it seems that the new USP has changed the chemistry of how my (usual) mods work.

 

Any advice, comments, rants are welcome! Thanks!

[EssArrBee]

I can't see anything in your load order except that you have unofficial high res dlc patch in front of the high res dlc. Also, if you extracted the HRDLC BSAs you don't need the plugins.

 

An NPC disappearing from the ground up seems almost like an effect and not a bug. Maybe you have a screenshot of it.

[WilliamImm]

Arthmoor really doesn't trust Mod Organizer. I... I really don't know why, to be honest. Maybe because of a really early version, but I don't know.

 

Unpacking BSAs has no negative effect on the game at all, really.

 

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[Allsunday]

He's overly attached to Wrye Bash if I'm not mistaken.

[DoubleYou]

I'd load up your load order in TES5Edit and take a look at the mods modifying Braith and see which one might be causing this.

[Kuldebar]

Thanks for the replies.

 

@EssArrBee

 

Yes, that was a goof on my part...both are "dummy" entries though. Braith's disappearing act is a gradual fade as she's walking away, then she's perma-invisible. I mean, I seen plenty of texture/mesh glitches but not one that impacts just one NPC (that I know of, other children/female NPC's are fine in Whiterun) and in this manner.

 

@WilliamImm

 

I felt a little like that when I first started using it...it does all these things behind the scenes hidden from view, a sneaky like...a kinda magic. But your reassurance further underscores my trust in the MO revolution of mod management.

---

I'd load up your load order in TES5Edit and take a look at the mods modifying Braith and see which one might be causing this.

I know I don't have a mod that specifically modifies Braith other than Xvision Children - Redone by Bagserk and Bugsbugme. I am worried about the interaction between the new Unofficial Patches and Xvision. Xvision Children - Redone has a Unofficial Skyrim Patch compatibility patch which I use, I'm thinking it may need updated for the new patch version.

 

But stranger things have been known to happened, I once found a mod that added a nice gate to Winterhold...but I discovered much later that it also broke the Riverwood Gate as a bonus.

 

I'll take a look, I just would love to have the previous version of the patch to verify/troubleshoot/compare what has changed. (My SSD is cramped for space so i don't keep too many old files around)

 

That brat Braith was working fine before.

 

UPDATE:

 

Appears the Xvision patch file for the Unofficial Skyrim Patch is the problem.

[NodusCursorius]

Arthmoor really doesn't trust Mod Organizer. I... I really don't know why, to be honest. Maybe because of a really early version, but I don't know.

 

Unpacking BSAs has no negative effect on the game at all, really.

 

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If my memory serves me correctly, and please otherwise offer corrections, he strongly disagreed with confusing both user and author with a dual-priority system.

 

Although there are indeed benefits to having a virtual file system that provides modular and dynamic loading, I agree with Arthmoor on the level of complexity it brings. Encouraging users to properly interact with BOSS, and user-based BOSS rules, has taken over a decade to reach mainstream usage and tool maturity. Explaining a secondary priority system that has the opportunity to be completely ignored/conflicted by the original one is tedious as best, and dangerous at worst. Nothing will push people away from enjoying a modded game more than turning the installation of mods into a second job and we'd be fools to chastise them, users, for wanting a simplistic and efficient interaction system.

 

The joke, "more time modding than gaming" is something we all know is only half a joke. The other half is that unshakable concern over the lack of what used to be important to us: gaming

 

That being said, the dual priority system is very useful once grasped and when placed in the hands of someone far more concerned with the finer details of their installation. The ability to delegate to BOSS, or completely ignore it through dynamic ordering, is vital to both testing and mod authoring. It is a tool for a tradecraft, but not quite a recreational one. I personally enjoy Mod Organizer's format because of how often I am testing, or documenting, various things... but I would not recommend to most of my friends who play the game.

 

To Arthmoor, including myself to a small degree, the frustration is simple: Packaging everything into .bsa files and having proper documentation between mods, as well as a very active BOSS/testing community, provides a simplistic and efficient solution for gamers. They pick what they'll enjoy, do some very brief reading*, and let BOSS handle the rest. If something goes wrong the possible points of failure is reduced in half when compared to MO, and thus troubleshooting becomes easier for everyone.

 

*Automated compatibility checking should be standard by now, along with a central graph or database.

 

Sent from my Computer using Keyboard

[DoubleYou]

If your modding needs/desires are simplistic, than yes. If your modding needs/desires are like STEP, than no. I suggest a compromise, in-the-middle solution: unpack BSAs when they hinder a convenient modding installation. That will optimize speed and lessen issues.

[Kuldebar]

@NodusCursorius

 

All great and valid points concerning the struggle between the "dumbing" down for the unwashed masses and the free exchange of tools for those ready, willing and responsible enough to use them properly.

 

Obviously, I support the latter, and I generally despise being limited by any lowest common denominator type factor put in place simply to protect the innocently (willfully?) ignorant, so to speak.

 

Mod Organizer has empowered me, that's all I care about. Power can be dangerous, the 3 year old with a loaded gun, probably not the best of ideas. Where before I had to take problems passively and often impotently waiting for someone else to fix them; I can now manipulate whole blocks of data streams and solve my own problems with very few exceptions. I've been liberated and I was too ignorant to realize it at first because I didn't fully understand MO or appreciate the power it was giving me.

[NodusCursorius]

All great and valid points concerning the struggle between the "dumbing" down for the unwashed masses and the free exchange of tools for those ready, willing and responsible enough to use them properly.

 

Obviously, I support the latter, and I generally despise being limited by any lowest common denominator type factor put in place simply to protect the innocently (willfully?) ignorant, so to speak.

I can not express in words the level of insult that I feel you've levied against others.

 

To say to a fellow gamer, "You, who are unwashed and possibly willfully ignorant, are too inferior in foresight and intellect to appreciate the tremendous power I have gleamed. You, who are destined to lesser tools, are out of my league.", is disheartening to hear from you.

 

Time and energy are finite resources and learning how to manage them requires experience and the understanding of one's priority system.

 

There are gamers out there who have full time jobs, families, other hobbies, scheduled plans, varying levels of energy or sickness, and a plethora of other priorities. Could you look into the eyes of a fellow gamer, with a different priority system than your own, and call them willfully ignorant when they're looking for simplicity after a 60 hour workweek?

 

Network security and software disassembly has been my tradecraft for over two decades. And yet I will not turn to you, on this day, and say "All of the functionality in Mod Organizer was already achievable through NTFS Symbolic Linking for dynamic folder structure, Windows Batch Files to automate the process, manually constructed into a Virtual File System, while using the Microsoft File Compare as a means to detect file conflict overwrites."

 

The blacksmith mocks not the baker for a lack of smelting knowledge, since the blacksmith himself has no time to learn baking.

 

It is good to be supportive of the tools that fit your priority, and I sincerely encourage you to master them so skillfully that you craft the world around you to the imagination befitting your dreams. But never forget that many of us built those tools for you so that you can meet your goals and priority with simplicity and efficiency.

 

Edit: My apologies if this came off as harsh or I misinterpreted you. I am currently ill and my mind less reliable than I'd prefer.

[Kuldebar]

@NodusCursorius

 

Great writing, but I personally am not all that emotionally invested in the making of excuses for people. I chose my word usage for that purpose to illustrate the divide. Not enough people are learning the art of thinking for themselves, lack of time or other commitments is no legitimite excuse.

 

We each have our own areas of focus in life, some of us will choose to skate by in some areas while others will invest all their time and energy fervently exploring those areas.

 

No one is perfect or all-knowing, but all of us are mortal and so by nature limited in both resources and time.

 

There will always be a conflict between the knowledgeable and the ignorant in these pursuits. The wise will seek out the truth of things, the less wise will stumble blindly never achieving an understanding.

 

After all, wisdom is the measure of one's ability to use the knowledge, however limited, in a productive and fruitful manner.

 

An ignorant man can also be wise if he is self aware of his limitations and honest in his pursuits.

"ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat"

[Octopuss]

...so should I unpack the USKP's bsa or not? I unpack everything by default, and common sense tells me I am "stuck" with that approach from the moment I extract, optimize, and repack the vanilla textures separately.

[Redferne]

Yes you should unpack as soon as you understand that you will have to also order your mods in the left panel of MO.

Otherwise just order them the same way BOSS ordered them in the right panel.

[PlanetExp]

Otherwise just order them the same way BOSS ordered them in the right panel.

 

Or in the order the STEP list are in, but it's pretty much the same.

 

Just chipping in that it is perfectly fine to leave them in BSAs too, if that's what you want. Doesn't really matter it seems.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Redferne]

I started to unpack the BSA when I realized that I wanted to remove some texture from certain mod but still want it to override some from other mod. That's when I became a MO addict :)

But yes otherwise BSA are fine too, I didn't want to imply that it is necessarily better or mandatory. Actually if you don't want or need that particular level of control over your mods you should keep with BSA you will gain the few seconds of unpacking when installing a mod.

[NodusCursorius]

-Post removed by self-choice. My individual feelings of his behavior and outlook are unrelated to the thread-