DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 190

[luci66]

WOOPS, posted twice-
didnt know it would end up in the same place. issue same as above.

With alpha 77 and 81 i believe (recent latest ones), I get CTD when loading a save file which had dyndolod enabled.

Basically, I can load an older save successfully, but I cannot make any more saves with dyndolod enabled. The new save file will CTD on load.
Now i figured it was dyndolod causing the issue because after I disabled, texgen, dyndolod outputs and loaded an old save and made a new save. The new save loads!
I had never had these CTD on load with older alphas, but only the ones in the past few weeks.

All this time I thought it was old scripts and uninstalled mods and loaded way back losing a lot of progress and been playing it from there but it happened again as soon as i reran dyndolod.

So how do I fix my save file, which CTDs on load as it was saved with dyndolod enabled?
And what causes this? missing mesh? how do i prevent this from happening again?

Edited March 12, 2022 by luci66
duplicate

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2022 at 8:44 PM, luci66 said:

WOOPS, posted twice-
didnt know it would end up in the same place. issue same as above.

With alpha 77 and 81 i believe (recent latest ones), I get CTD when loading a save file which had dyndolod enabled.

Basically, I can load an older save successfully, but I cannot make any more saves with dyndolod enabled. The new save file will CTD on load.
Now i figured it was dyndolod causing the issue because after I disabled, texgen, dyndolod outputs and loaded an old save and made a new save. The new save loads!
I had never had these CTD on load with older alphas, but only the ones in the past few weeks.

All this time I thought it was old scripts and uninstalled mods and loaded way back losing a lot of progress and been playing it from there but it happened again as soon as i reran dyndolod.

So how do I fix my save file, which CTDs on load as it was saved with dyndolod enabled?
And what causes this? missing mesh? how do i prevent this from happening again?

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See https://dyndolod.info/FAQ ILS or CTD

"If there are problems saving in Skyrim Special Edition, install SSE Engine Fixes 4.8 or newer and set SaveGameMaxSize = true in the EngineFixes.toml. Alternatively add/set [SaveGame] uiCompression=1 in Skyrim.INI to change from the default 2 for LZ4 to 1 for zlib compression. 0 means no compression like games are saved in Skyrim."

[luci66]

  On 3/12/2022 at 9:01 PM, sheson said:

See https://dyndolod.info/FAQ ILS or CTD

"If there are problems saving in Skyrim Special Edition, install SSE Engine Fixes 4.8 or newer and set SaveGameMaxSize = true in the EngineFixes.toml. Alternatively add/set [SaveGame] uiCompression=1 in Skyrim.INI to change from the default 2 for LZ4 to 1 for zlib compression. 0 means no compression like games are saved in Skyrim."

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Hey yes, sorry I forgot to mention, I'm on SSE/AE latest and I have already tried using SSE engine fixes and setting the save game max size alongside using resaver to clean the save before creating a new save. But I still cannot load the new save if i do it right now with dyndolod enabled. 
The latest save file cannot be loaded at all.

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2022 at 9:29 PM, luci66 said:

Hey yes, sorry I forgot to mention, I'm on SSE/AE latest and I have already tried using SSE engine fixes and setting the save game max size alongside using resaver to clean the save before creating a new save. But I still cannot load the new save if i do it right now with dyndolod enabled. 
The latest save file cannot be loaded at all.

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Try [SaveGame] uiCompression=1 or 0.

How many plugins? Assuming you increased maxStdio as well?

So it happens with a usual clean save and with a clean save that you also cleaned further with resaver?

What happens when saving after starting a new game?

Have you tried what happens if you remove other mods?

Install crash logger to get a crash log. Any chance you can test/get crash log with 1.5.97 and .Net Framework?

Check papyrus logs, too.

[luci66]

  On 3/12/2022 at 9:41 PM, sheson said:

Try [SaveGame] uiCompression=1 or 0.

How many plugins? Assuming you increased maxStdio as well?

So it happens with a usual clean save and with a clean save that you also cleaned further with resaver?

What happens when saving after starting a new game?

Have you tried what happens if you remove other mods?

Install crash logger to get a crash log. Any chance you can test/get crash log with 1.5.97 and .Net Framework?

Check papyrus logs, too.

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Thank you for quick replies
>yes I just tried adding uicompressions to 1 and 0.
>maxStdio is 4096
>Im on 243 esps+ems i believe.
>It happens with both usual save and the save I made with resaver. I cannot make any more saves from there.
>It works fine with new game.
>I have tested removing many mods. But it is just dyndolod and texgen output that needs to be removed for the game to start working and me being able to save.
>I have a crash logger. i'm on AE so i cannot use .net
log here- ctd issue - Pastebin.com
Thanks

[sheson]

  On 3/12/2022 at 10:25 PM, luci66 said:

Thank you for quick replies
>yes I just tried adding uicompressions to 1 and 0.
>maxStdio is 4096
>Im on 243 esps+ems i believe.
>It happens with both usual save and the save I made with resaver. I cannot make any more saves from there.
>It works fine with new game.
>I have tested removing many mods. But it is just dyndolod and texgen output that needs to be removed for the game to start working and me being able to save.
>I have a crash logger. i'm on AE so i cannot use .net
log here- ctd issue - Pastebin.com
Thanks

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Can resaver load the save that the game can not load?

Have you also tested removing SKSE DLL plugin mods? Like SkyrimSoulsRE.dll,  TrueDirectionalMovement.dll, AHZmoreHUDPlugin.dll

See what happens if you install DynDOLOD DLL SE - SKSE64 Plugin - Skyrim Special Edition 1.6.353 and the DynDOLOD DLL SE - Scripts overwriting the papyrus scripts from DynDOLOD Resources SE. If nothing else use PapyrusUtil disable that, too.

Post the log from the generation session and the debug log (which hopefully still contains the session)

[luci66]

  On 3/12/2022 at 11:15 PM, sheson said:

Can resaver load the save that the game can not load?

Have you also tested removing SKSE DLL plugin mods? Like SkyrimSoulsRE.dll,  TrueDirectionalMovement.dll, AHZmoreHUDPlugin.dll

See what happens if you install DynDOLOD DLL SE - SKSE64 Plugin - Skyrim Special Edition 1.6.353 and the DynDOLOD DLL SE - Scripts overwriting the papyrus scripts from DynDOLOD Resources SE. If nothing else use PapyrusUtil disable that, too.

Post the log from the generation session and the debug log (which hopefully still contains the session)

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Hey sheson, thank you for all your help. i have managed to solve it.
I tired disabling all those dlls but they were not the issue and also (resaver couldn't load the file , it gives position mismatch error)

But anyway I solved it as -
The issue was that I hadn't made a full clean save when updating. 
Normally how I update is, I go indoors, save , exit then remove old outputs then generate new and the game loaded fine.
But this time, on newer versions-
After a clean save, I ALSO had to remove old output, then LOAD the game with MISSING DYNDOLOD esm and esp, and MISSING OCCLUSION. Then wait a while then save and exit.
Then installed the new outputs and now when i load back the game works great and any save i make loads properly.

I didn't know you were supposed to load the game with missing esps and esms then save and exit. I thought that would cause too many orphan scripts each time. 
I don't know if that is the correct procedure but next time i'll use the MCM beforehand and update properly. It was my mistake.
Thanks for your help as always.

Edit: however that save file is as good as dead. had to load the older save and do the steps properly to make a new save for it to work. Incase someone else encounters a similar issue.

Edited March 13, 2022 by luci66
adding info

[sheson]

  On 3/13/2022 at 12:08 AM, luci66 said:

Hey sheson, thank you for all your help. i have managed to solve it.
I tired disabling all those dlls but they were not the issue and also (resaver couldn't load the file , it gives position mismatch error)

But anyway I solved it as -
The issue was that I hadn't made a full clean save when updating. 
Normally how I update is, I go indoors, save , exit then remove old outputs then generate new and the game loaded fine.
But this time, on newer versions-
After a clean save, I ALSO had to remove old output, then LOAD the game with MISSING DYNDOLOD esm and esp, and MISSING OCCLUSION. Then wait a while then save and exit.
Then installed the new outputs and now when i load back the game works great and any save i make loads properly.

I didn't know you were supposed to load the game with missing esps and esms then save and exit. I thought that would cause too many orphan scripts each time. 
I don't know if that is the correct procedure but next time i'll use the MCM beforehand and update properly. It was my mistake.
Thanks for your help as always.

Edit: however that save file is as good as dead. had to load the older save and do the steps properly to make a new save for it to work. Incase someone else encounters a similar issue.

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That explains it. Correct, the clean save procedure includes loading/saving the game without the plugins. For reference https://dyndolod.info/Help/Clean-Save

[TechAngel85]

Hey sheson,

I've been searching around in the documentation and forums. I can't find this answer as billboard3 isn't discussed much.
Does TexGen handle the creation of all the billboards needed for billboard3, or do tree mods need to have built-in support for this billboard type?

My tests lead me to think mods need to specifically support this billboard type. EVT comes out with two panes correct and one pane with a missing texture (purple). I've yet to test other mods. I know I've seen this on aspens and it looked great. The transitions where much improved, but I can't seem to get myself back there. Nothing is coming out with correct 3x2 panes.

[sheson]

  On 3/14/2022 at 4:32 AM, TechAngel85 said:

Hey sheson,

I've been searching around in the documentation and forums. I can't find this answer as billboard3 isn't discussed much.
Does TexGen handle the creation of all the billboards needed for billboard3, or do tree mods need to have built-in support for this billboard type?

My tests lead me to think mods need to specifically support this billboard type. EVT comes out with two panes correct and one pane with a missing texture (purple). I've yet to test other mods. I know I've seen this on aspens and it looked great. The transitions where much improved, but I can't seem to get myself back there. Nothing is coming out with correct 3x2 panes.

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TexGen generates a front and a 90 degree side view for HD billboards.

With standard billboards available - front view texture only - the DynDOLOD_flat_3x2_lod.nif will use the same texture for all planes.

If the HD billboard is available, it should be using the front view for 2 planes and the side view for one plane.

[ozBillo]

After running xLODGen, TexGen and DynDOLOD 3 my tree lods look like this...

I'm hoping I just ticked the wrong box somewhere along the way.
Does anyone know what would cause this?

[ozBillo]

  On 3/14/2022 at 8:10 AM, ozBillo said:

Does anyone know what would cause this?

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I found the problem. I'd messed up my "tree" Mesh rules in DynDOLOD.
When I did a straight Medium preset the LODs were fine.

[sheson]

  On 3/14/2022 at 8:10 AM, ozBillo said:

After running xLODGen, TexGen and DynDOLOD 3 my tree lods look like this...

I'm hoping I just ticked the wrong box somewhere along the way.
Does anyone know what would cause this?

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The screenshots seems to show 3D tree LOD models that are missing trunk textures.

I suggest to really pay attention to log messages and the summary. They most likely report this.

  On 3/14/2022 at 10:19 AM, ozBillo said:

I found the problem. I'd messed up my "tree" Mesh rules in DynDOLOD.
When I did a straight Medium preset the LODs were fine.

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The defaults of the tree mesh rule are different depending on the preset.

[z929669]

  On 3/14/2022 at 8:03 AM, sheson said:

TexGen generates a front and a 90 degree side view for HD billboards.

With standard billboards available - front view texture only - the DynDOLOD_flat_3x2_lod.nif will use the same texture for all planes.

If the HD billboard is available, it should be using the front view for 2 planes and the side view for one plane.

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To expand on Tech's question about DynDOLOD_flat_3x2_lod.nif (set to Billboard3 by default ... I believe you refer to this as 'external').

1. I am pretty sure only the diffuse are applied with the 'HD tree' TexGen options for this model (but not the normals)?
2. Also, in terms of the full-circle 360 degrees on the biradial of the tree (looking from top/bottom), TexGen creates billboards at 0/180 planes only, but not 0/120/240 right? Those would need to be created manually for use with Billboard3. I also assume it is possible to create a DynDOLOD_flat_6x2_lod.nif that would use 3x diffuse+normal, but I suspect this isn't supported by LODGen at this time (if ever)?
3. For Aspens Ablaze, we were wondering about the LOD models shipping with that mod. They are just reduced poly versions of the tree with file names as below but don't seem to be referenced by the plugin. Does DynDOLOD understand/use these LOD meshes for object LOD? :
   • treeaspen01.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_0.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_1.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_2.nif
4. Lastly, in your experience, does increasing the biradial planes geometry really impact the quality of the LOD? I suspect that two planes is the sweet spot and adding more may be redundant. But I have yet to see for myself in game, which is why I ask.

 

[sheson]

  On 3/14/2022 at 1:43 PM, z929669 said:

To expand on Tech's question about DynDOLOD_flat_3x2_lod.nif (set to Billboard3 by default ... I believe you refer to this as 'external').

1. I am pretty sure only the diffuse are applied with the 'HD tree' TexGen options for this model (but not the normals)?
2. Also, in terms of the full-circle 360 degrees on the biradial of the tree (looking from top/bottom), TexGen creates billboards at 0/180 planes only, but not 0/120/240 right? Those would need to be created manually for use with Billboard3. I also assume it is possible to create a DynDOLOD_flat_6x2_lod.nif that would use 3x diffuse+normal, but I suspect this isn't supported by LODGen at this time (if ever)?
3. For Aspens Ablaze, we were wondering about the LOD models shipping with that mod. They are just reduced poly versions of the tree with file names as below but don't seem to be referenced by the plugin. Does DynDOLOD understand/use these LOD meshes for object LOD? :
   • treeaspen01.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_0.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_1.nif
   • treeaspen01_LOD_2.nif
4. Lastly, in your experience, does increasing the biradial planes geometry really impact the quality of the LOD? I suspect that two planes is the sweet spot and adding more may be redundant. But I have yet to see for myself in game, which is why I ask.

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1. DynDOLOD_flat_3x2_lod.nif defines 3 textures for each plane. LODGen replaces them with the corresponding object LOD atlas texture paths.

2. If HD billboards are selected, TexGen generates a *_1.dds front and a 90 degree (right I think) side view _2.dds diffuse and normal map. LODGen does not care what the arrangement and orientation of vertex data and triangles in NIFs is.

3. We have thoroughly discussed this before. It works. It is bad. Do not use this for the users and cathedral modding sake.  https://dyndolod.info/Help/3D-Tree-LOD-Model 
"As a last ditch effort before using the billboard as fallback, DynDOLOD checks if there is an object LOD model with the typical filename convention of full model filename_LOD_[0|1|2].nif as usual for object LOD. This should only be used by properly made mods that use new unique filenames for every changed full model or texture and use new or updated base records to use the new assets to avoid conflicts. As soon as there are different variants (even through updates or patches) for the same full model filename, use the preferred CRC32 matching to guarantee the correct LOD model is used every time regardless of a user's load order since users like to mix lots of different mods or different versions of mods and their assets all the time."

4. If I do not find Billboard4 in LOD Level 4 being good enough, one more plane is not going to much better, hence 3D hybrid tree LOD for LOD Level 4.