xLODGen - Terrain LOD beta 128 for FNV, FO3, FO4, FO4VR, TES5, SSE, TES5VR, ENDERAL, ENDERALSE

[Surjamte]

The LOD level 4 means 4x4 = 16 cells are covered by it, 8x8 = 64 cells and so on. Only chunks for valid coordinates (the lower left cell - which are part of the filename) are generated, obviously. The LOD system of the game does load files that do not fall on the 4x4, 8x8, 16x16, 32x32 grid.

 

Cell 32,7 is covered by 32,4 for LOD level 4 or 32,0 for LOD level 8.

Okay, thanks. I think I got it now. Merry christmas!

[blessedmilkyway]

Thank you so much for those tools and setup/informations!

 

I was able to generate seamless LOD for Vanilla using your default settings in first post and some minor tweaks on brightness and contrast. I can barely notice to the transition anymore on regular terrain.

 

Snow LOD is still slightly darker, although I did find a workaround to create lighter LOD using a snow mod such as nordic snow, which generates lighter LOD. One can then revert back to vanilla snow and the LOD will even be a bit brighter than the loaded cell!

 

Thank you for your work, now with DynDOLOD, we're on the road to true "no more pop-in" Skyrim...!

Edited December 26, 2020 by blessedmilkyway

[blessedmilkyway]

Would there be a way to make the terrain LOD4 use the same files as the loaded cells, so there would be no terrain pop in anymore?

 

Is it what the "-1 no compression setting" is for?

[sheson]

Would there be a way to make the terrain LOD4 use the same files as the loaded cells, so there would be no terrain pop in anymore?

 

Is it what the "-1 no compression setting" is for?

Hovering over the quality setting says "Lower = Better / Larger Files, Higher = Worse / Smaller Files, -1 = No Optimization", which means the terrain LOD mesh is equal to the loaded cell.

A quality of 0 will virtually looks the same.

 

The loaded cells do not really use files. The terrain mesh is built on the fly.

[blessedmilkyway]

Thank you for the clarifications. I'm not sure what you mean by "built on the fly" since the engine must be looking for some file to know what to show/render.

 

The LOD meshes are great as it is, especially with the protect borders feature, it's looking good even at the recommended 5 setting.

 

Using your #C0C0C0 noise.dds with minor tweaks on contrast/brightness also has made wonders.

 

The only "pop-in"/noticeable effect that remains is in the difference of the texture level of detail between the loaded cell and the LOD4...Is there a way to address this with the normal/diffuse size maybe?

 

I'd like to make a perfect match between the loaded cell's textures and the LOD4's ones.

 

I'd like to use the chunk feature as well so I could test all this faster, but I don't know how to scope the cell's coordinate in-game.

[sheson]

Thank you for the clarifications. I'm not sure what you mean by "built on the fly" since the engine must be looking for some file to know what to show/render.

 

The LOD meshes are great as it is, especially with the protect borders feature, it's looking good even at the recommended 5 setting.

 

Using your #C0C0C0 noise.dds with minor tweaks on contrast/brightness also has made wonders.

 

The only "pop-in"/noticeable effect that remains is in the difference of the texture level of detail between the loaded cell and the LOD4...Is there a way to address this with the normal/diffuse size maybe?

 

I'd like to make a perfect match between the loaded cell's textures and the LOD4's ones.

 

I'd like to use the chunk feature as well so I could test all this faster, but I don't know how to scope the cell's coordinate in-game.

The terrain height data is stored in a special way on the LAND records. From that data the engine builds a mesh every time a cell is loaded.

 

There are no settings that can change the abysmal circular terrain texture fading inside the loaded cells. That will probably require require changing the shader that is used to splat (layer) the full terrain textures.

 

Use DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM You Are Here. It will tell you the the LOD file names/coords.

[blessedmilkyway]

Hmm I don't know anymore :

 

1) - I did a specific chunk at 2k with your recommend settings and +2/+2 brightness/contrast => perfect LOD, no difference (using STEP mod list)

 

- then I did a full map 2k and the LOD was slightly different again (checked with the cell where I previously had a perfect LOD, and it had changed)

 

Then I noticed different LOD levels seems to be blended together as we move around, there is a sort of transition/blending effect, so I'm wondering if this has to do with the change I noticed?

 

2) For the snow, I generate LOD using nordic snow mod, then disable the mod and its just perfect. So that's one way to have terrain LOD and snow LOD matching finally.

 

3) I got the "perfect" LOD using the STEP build, which seems to have specific ground texture which is better suited. I tried my settings for Vanilla and Cathedral Landscapes at 4k LOD4, and there is still a difference due to how the texture details/tiling are made in those mods.

 

So I guess one easy way to eradicate texture difference is also to use a landscape textures that have somewhat not too defined groundcovers to begin with. 

 

Even with Vanilla and Cathedral, the LODs were still way better than anything I've seen on the nexus so far, so that would be indeed a great step up for those using those mods, but still I'm baffled by 1) and the problem is 2K full map takes a long time to render so it's difficult to further test this.

 

Thank you, I'm going to generate some more and see if I can refine.

The terrain height data is stored in a special way on the LAND records. From that data the engine builds a mesh every time a cell is loaded.

 

There are no settings that can change the abysmal circular terrain texture fading inside the loaded cells. That will probably require require changing the shader that is used to splat (layer) the full terrain textures.

 

Use DynDOLOD SkyUI MCM You Are Here. It will tell you the the LOD file names/coords.

Thank you I found out about "Where in Oblivion Am i" mod in the meantime and it did the trick for cells coordinate.

 

What you say about circular fading could be the issue I ran into when fully rendering 2K. There is a way cell and LODs blend that seem to mess up with my "specific chunk" setup.

 

EDIT : Could be that I fully rendered 2K on LOD4 only and 512 for LOD8/16, therefore the resolution change is a bit too big and the blending messes up the LOD4 too badly...? I'll try 2k/1k and report

Edited December 28, 2020 by blessedmilkyway

[blessedmilkyway]

Also, any reason as to why generating LOD makes the darks darker (even after using brightness/noise correction)?

 

I can get the Lod to match the loaded cell pretty well except for the dark tones. They seem to be overdone for some reason.

 

Not talking about overall darker tone that we can correct with noise.dds/brightness, but specificaly dark greens for example who end up still being over darkened so to speak.

 

Could this have to do with the format? Or just the algorithm that changes the colors?

[sheson]

 

Hmm I don't know anymore :

 

1) - I did a specific chunk at 2k with your recommend settings and +2/+2 brightness/contrast => perfect LOD, no difference (using STEP mod list)

 

- then I did a full map 2k and the LOD was slightly different again (checked with the cell where I previously had a perfect LOD, and it had changed)

 

Then I noticed different LOD levels seems to be blended together as we move around, there is a sort of transition/blending effect, so I'm wondering if this has to do with the change I noticed?

 

2) For the snow, I generate LOD using nordic snow mod, then disable the mod and its just perfect. So that's one way to have terrain LOD and snow LOD matching finally.

 

3) I got the "perfect" LOD using the STEP build, which seems to have specific ground texture which is better suited. I tried my settings for Vanilla and Cathedral Landscapes at 4k LOD4, and there is still a difference due to how the texture details/tiling are made in those mods.

 

So I guess one easy way to eradicate texture difference is also to use a landscape textures that have somewhat not too defined groundcovers to begin with. 

 

Even with Vanilla and Cathedral, the LODs were still way better than anything I've seen on the nexus so far, so that would be indeed a great step up for those using those mods, but still I'm baffled by 1) and the problem is 2K full map takes a long time to render so it's difficult to further test this.

 

Thank you, I'm going to generate some more and see if I can refine.

Thank you I found out about "Where in Oblivion Am i" mod in the meantime and it did the trick for cells coordinate.

 

What you say about circular fading could be the issue I ran into when fully rendering 2K. There is a way cell and LODs blend that seem to mess up with my "specific chunk" setup.

 

EDIT : Could be that I fully rendered 2K on LOD4 only and 512 for LOD8/16, therefore the resolution change is a bit too big and the blending messes up the LOD4 too badly...? I'll try 2k/1k and report

 

1) I do not recommend any settings. In fact I recommend to not change the brightness/contrast/gamma settings IF the same landscape textures are used for LOD generation and in the game.

If you are following third party instructions like STEP for a specific load order and if there are questions you need to ask the guides authors.

 

If you load the terrain LOD textures from Test-Terrain-Tamriel.7z (see first post) you can see each LOD quad and gauge their pixel dimensions actually used on screen. Also use the map for LOD level 32.

 

LOD levels do not blend. They switch. LOD levels do not affect each other. The only blending happens inside the loaded cells between the full terrain textures and the terrain LOD level 4 diffuse.

 

2) To have snow match I suggest to disable the "improved" snow setting.

Edited December 28, 2020 by sheson

[blessedmilkyway]

Here are my current results. As you can see, it's pretty close, the only issue that remains is the darker areas (circled in red).
 

 
For some reason, even after applying noise and tweaking settings, the rest of the cell can be corrected fine, but the darker greens are just too dark.
 
Could it be that xLODgen just darkens too much darker colors when making the LODs?
 
Also, I'm thinking of maybe manually editing the most problematic areas, and then using xLODgen for the rest. I'm not sure what would be the best way since I'm not too familiar with the files/tools yet (maybe extracting bsa, finding the full texture dds, and then copy paste them in the LOD4 dds?)

1) I do not recommend any settings. In fact I recommend to not change the brightness/contrast/gamma settings IF the same landscape textures are used for LOD generation and in the game.

If you are following third party instructions like STEP for a specific load order and if there are questions you need to ask the guides authors.

 

If you load the terrain LOD textures from Test-Terrain-Tamriel.7z (see first post) you can see each LOD quad and gauge their pixel dimensions actually used on screen. Also use the map for LOD level 32.

 

LOD levels do not blend. They switch. LOD levels do not affect each other. The only blending happens inside the loaded cells between the full terrain textures and the terrain LOD level 4 diffuse.

 

2) To have snow match I suggest to disable the "improved" snow setting.

1) Tried it but for some reason the LOD wouldn't work, but I'll try again.

 

2) Even with improved snow setting off, the LODs are still noticeably darker, even after noise and using brightness settings in xLODGen. However, using a mod with very white snow (like nordic snow) produces LOD's that are brighter/truly white, and I can just disable the mod after, it's all fine and the LOD's are perfect for the snow.

Edited December 28, 2020 by blessedmilkyway

[sheson]

Here are my current results. As you can see, it's pretty close, the only issue that remains is the darker areas (circled in red).

 

 

For some reason, even after applying noise and tweaking settings, the rest of the cell can be corrected fine, but the darker greens are just too dark.

 

Could it be that xLODgen just darkens too much darker colors when making the LODs?

 

Also, I'm thinking of maybe manually editing the most problematic areas, and then using xLODgen for the rest. I'm not sure what would be the best way since I'm not too familiar with the files/tools yet (maybe extracting bsa, finding the full texture dds, and then copy paste them in the LOD4 dds?)

1) Tried it but for some reason the LOD wouldn't work, but I'll try again.

 

2) Even with improved snow setting off, the LODs are still noticeably darker, even after noise and using brightness settings in xLODGen. However, using a mod with very white snow (like nordic snow) produces LOD's that are brighter/truly white, and I can just disable the mod after, it's all fine and the LOD's are perfect for the snow.

 

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are default, xLODGen does not modify any textures at all.

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are not default, they are applied equally to the final terrain LOD texture just before saving.

 

Also make sure to keep the default setting bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 so snow etc. keeps its original brightness.

 

Object LOD uses textures\landscape\snow01.dds and textures\landscape\snow02.dds as well (If you use TexGen)

 

If you see a difference between the full texture and the resized LOD texture it because of shaders or INI settings that are applied in the game afterwards.

Edited December 28, 2020 by sheson

[blessedmilkyway]

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are default, xLODGen does not modify any textures at all.

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are not default, they are applied equally to the final terrain LOD texture just before saving.

 

Also make sure to keep the default setting bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 so snow etc. keeps its original brightness.

 

Object LOD uses textures\landscape\snow01.dds and textures\landscape\snow02.dds as well (If you use TexGen)

 

If you see a difference between the full texture and the resized LOD texture it because of shaders or INI settings that are applied in the game afterwards.

That's great info, I was just wondering how the snow on object LOD was done...that's great to know, thanks.

 

I have bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 already yeah.

 

So ok, it's the engine that just put a strong darker tone on those greens, even after I corrected the rest of the cell...thanks for the infos.

[sheson]

That's great info, I was just wondering how the snow on object LOD was done...that's great to know, thanks.

 

I have bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 already yeah.

 

So ok, it's the engine that just put a strong darker tone on those greens, even after I corrected the rest of the cell...thanks for the infos.

Trying to identify the colored patches from the scrreenshots, those are probably the vertex color information from the LAND record painted on top of things. I will have a look at this again how it's done and compare that with the reverse engineered shaders from the SkyrimRE project we have available now.

[blessedmilkyway]

Trying to identify the colored patches from the scrreenshots, those are probably the vertex color information from the LAND record painted on top of things. I will have a look at this again how it's done and compare that with the reverse engineered shaders from the SkyrimRE project we have available now.

That would be the least nail in the coffin of terrain LOD if it could be done...

 

I just tested with some grass and the quality is already good enough to not notice any terrain pop in anymore, it's just great now. Even with vanilla landscape, I can't really tell now with a bit of grass.

[sheson]

That would be the least nail in the coffin of terrain LOD if it could be done...

 

I just tested with some grass and the quality is already good enough to not notice any terrain pop in anymore, it's just great now. Even with vanilla landscape, I can't really tell now with a bit of grass.

Looking at the shader it seems to do the the usual diffuse * color multiplication, which is what xLODGen does.

 

Regardless, beta 65 now has a Vertex Color Intensity option to control how much of the vertex color overlay is applied to the final texture. Maybe do a specific chunk with 0.8 and compare with your earlier screenshots.