The Great Mage Mod Hunt

[Shadriss]

OK, so as Tech and myself briefly discussed in another thread, Magery suck vanilla. I know STEP's mandate is as close to vanilla as possible (with some caveats), but the simple truth is that magic, especially combat (Destruction) spells simply don't cut it. Simple example:

 

Helgen Underground. I walk into a room with five foes, three melee and two archers. My options are:

 

A) Break out Sword/Axe/Bludgeoning Instrument and do that voodoo that you do so well. Foes are dead. Game progresses.

 

B) Break out Flames. Magika runs out. All foes are still alive. Resort to A.

 

C) Same as B, but refuse to resort to A. Die. Reload. Resort to A.

 

No self-respecting mage would break out a weapon on the order of a sword, etc. Spellswords are kind of an exception to this, but even there, they are primary mages with a backup plan. The spellcasting is thier primary focus, not a sword slinger with a few useful casting buffs.

 

I'd LOVE to be able to be the BA Mage that the College of Winterhold deserves AND needs... but I can't with vanilla - not without resorting to methods that just aren't... right for the mage. So, to the end, I'm looking for something to address this issue without straying TOO far from vanilla. I've not done an exhaustive search, but I have found a few potentials. If you have used them and can speak to their effectiveness, please do so. If you see one that's missing, speak up as well.

 

1 - Balanced Magic. This one changes a lot of things, but seems to be on the track of what I'm talking about above.I've never been able to get to higher levels of casting (my Restoration skill, for example, just passed 20 for the first time in the six years I've been playing this game. Yes, you read that right, that's how underwhelmed I've been by the magic), so I can't really evaluate a lot of the changes it makes, so any insight here would be helpful.

 

2 - Mighty Magick Skyrim. This is kind of my 'outer limits' mod, as it makes many huge changes and additions to the system. What I can't get a feel for is how will it performs in actual combat, and again, I can't really evaluate the statements since I've never been able to get my skills up that high.

 

3 - Better Magic.  Seems to be a watered down version of Balanced Magic, but again, my ability to make evaluations here is somewhat lacking.

 

I also ran across Conjuration and Summoning Fixes, and I am curious if anyone knows if these issues were corrected by the USLEEP or not. If not, it may be something to throw over for bugfix mod consideration in the main guide as well, but that's another thing for later.

 

Thoughts, comments, or recommendations? Bring'em on.

[Greg]

I dunno that I 'recommend' any of them - they were my initial looks into ways to 'fix' magery in Skyrim. But as to the actual question, doubtful. STEPs mandate centers around two core things (though there are other considerations).

 

First, it has to be as close to vanilla as possible while being an improvement. None of these really are, and many of them make changes to the skill trees themselves. A huge hit against inclusion in STEP, but not the end of the process.

 

Second, if it IS going to depart from vanilla, it has to be considered something of a bugfix situation - one where a mechanic is broken, probably not what Bethesda really had in mind, and can be fixed or partially repaired with such mod. That one is more debatable, but after this discussion, I'm more inclined to say that they aren't in this group either. As Baron points out, it's possible (through planning, my arch-nemesis) to have a very competitive Mage build in vanilla, so the system isn't broken per-se, though it may have some balance issues.

 

Both of those said, just because they won't likely ever be in STEP doesn't mean that you shouldn't use them if you like them. I have a great MANY mods that are not STEP (Campfire, Frostfall, iNeed, ETaC, to name a few), and while it may take a little work to get them all to play along nicely, it's possible to do so, and I can only encourage you to try it out and see how it feels. STEP, as Tech points out to many, is a Guide... a starting point, if you will, for getting into Skyrim modding. Most of us have mods that aren't in the guide that we'll swear by... but if it doesn't meet the mandate, it doesn't make it into the guide.

I'm really looking forward to STEP 3.0 in which STEP Core is the base and STEP Extended is basically just a pack on the side. This should provide a wide-open foundation for more packs and I'm hopeful people will take full advantage of it for custom builds.

 

For me, it's somewhat of a fine line because I think the initial mage levels are broken but it does improve if you really work at it in the higher levels. The few times I tried being a pure mage, I could never make it out of Helgen in one piece without resorting to a melee weapon because flames doesn't do much damage and magicka doesn't last long enough to do any real damage. The really difficult part is walking a tightrope to find the right balance, but I think overall even melee players are overpowered once they reach into 40s and higher levels in the vanilla game.

 

Now that you've opened this discussion into the possibilities of improving mage play, I might give it another shot using some of these mods.

[mentaltyranny]

OK, so as Tech and myself briefly discussed in another thread, Magery suck vanilla. I know STEP's mandate is as close to vanilla as possible (with some caveats), but the simple truth is that magic, especially combat (Destruction) spells simply don't cut it. Simple example:

 

Helgen Underground. I walk into a room with five foes, three melee and two archers. My options are:

 

A) Break out Sword/Axe/Bludgeoning Instrument and do that voodoo that you do so well. Foes are dead. Game progresses.

 

B) Break out Flames. Magika runs out. All foes are still alive. Resort to A.

 

C) Same as B, but refuse to resort to A. Die. Reload. Resort to A.

 

No self-respecting mage would break out a weapon on the order of a sword, etc. Spellswords are kind of an exception to this, but even there, they are primary mages with a backup plan. The spellcasting is thier primary focus, not a sword slinger with a few useful casting buffs.

 

I'd LOVE to be able to be the BA Mage that the College of Winterhold deserves AND needs... but I can't with vanilla - not without resorting to methods that just aren't... right for the mage. So, to the end, I'm looking for something to address this issue without straying TOO far from vanilla. I've not done an exhaustive search, but I have found a few potentials. If you have used them and can speak to their effectiveness, please do so. If you see one that's missing, speak up as well.

 

1 - Balanced Magic. This one changes a lot of things, but seems to be on the track of what I'm talking about above.I've never been able to get to higher levels of casting (my Restoration skill, for example, just passed 20 for the first time in the six years I've been playing this game. Yes, you read that right, that's how underwhelmed I've been by the magic), so I can't really evaluate a lot of the changes it makes, so any insight here would be helpful.

 

2 - Mighty Magick Skyrim. This is kind of my 'outer limits' mod, as it makes many huge changes and additions to the system. What I can't get a feel for is how will it performs in actual combat, and again, I can't really evaluate the statements since I've never been able to get my skills up that high.

 

3 - Better Magic.  Seems to be a watered down version of Balanced Magic, but again, my ability to make evaluations here is somewhat lacking.

 

I also ran across Conjuration and Summoning Fixes, and I am curious if anyone knows if these issues were corrected by the USLEEP or not. If not, it may be something to throw over for bugfix mod consideration in the main guide as well, but that's another thing for later.

 

Thoughts, comments, or recommendations? Bring'em on.

Hey Shadriss, I wanted to let you know that USLEEP has negated the Conjuration and Summoning Fixes, you can confirm here (go to find on page, type "Conj" and look at the 5th entry).

 

Also, wanted to know if you still got Immersive Winterhold working and if you still recommended those other mods? Finally, based on the revelations here, are you still recommending Balanced Magic or Better Magic? 

 

Finally, to anyone here, I really want a mod that hotkeys casting, not equipping, spells from the keyboard; no more (idealy) no less. I am planning on using AH Hotkeys unless someone can recommend a better mod. I am almost done with my STEP installation and thinking about mods to round out my Spell Sword character.

[TechAngel85]

So far there hasn't been a while lot of interest or enough consensus to move forward.

 

My observations on vanilla magic being underpowered are primarily for low to medium level characters (5-30 or so), at least in the partial playthroughs I had. At these levels the defensive spells are hard to use since they last such a short time, and multiple simultaneous melee enemies can be quite difficult.

I think the reason for the last of interest is explained in the rest of your reply. Basically, to found a combination that really works, you're going to have to play through the game (at least the main quest line) a couple of times; tweaking things until you've found a sweet spot. This would take a lot of time and effort.

 

At higher levels magic certainly becomes more powerful, but at all PC levels the TES games I've tried seem geared more for melee combat users.

This is one of the main issues. I think most expect the TES games to be more like other games based more deeply in D&D. We all have experiences with these games (mine lay heavily in the Neverwinter Nights series) so we all expect the mage aspect of TES to be similar because those D&D games pull off these aspects so well. I know when I think of mages, I certainly think back to my wonderful experiences with those games. Fact is, the TES games haven't been build in this manner so we likely need to shift our thinking that the developers may not have expected users to be able to play as strict mages. Though there's plenty of evidence that would lead us to think that they did since there are strictly mage NPCs in the game. Regardless, it's certainly broken. My first playthrough of these types of game are always mage characters...my first playthrough of Skyrim was a mage in God Mod because I died everywhere I went.

 

In actuality, I came to the conclusion the best you could get from vanilla Skyrim would be a battle-mage who is adept with one-handed weapons and magic. My character in SSE is actually based on this concept. He's a Breton who specializes in destruction magic, one-handed weapons, and light armor. He dabbles in enchanting for boosting his armor and weapons stats and is just proficient enough with a bow to be deadly within a few shots when needing to stay at range. I also am testing out Inigo as a follower and have to say he is very entertaining! So far it's working out quite well. Though my character is completely of my own design, there are a few good builds on YouTube that can guide you in this. It's really all about knowing how to manipulate and combine different aspects of the game like perks, skills, armors, weapons, spells, and stones. I recommend checking out FudgeMuppet's (based on other TES games, though I disagree with his heavy armor as I don't think mages should be able to function well in it). Roshank Redemption has a good pure mage build, but it's completely overpowered and that's just using vanilla. FudgeMuppet also has a good pure mage build that isn't overpowered. Finally, here's a pretty battle mage image for your viewing pleasure:

 

For me, it's somewhat of a fine line because I think the initial mage levels are broken but it does improve if you really work at it in the higher levels. The few times I tried being a pure mage, I could never make it out of Helgen in one piece without resorting to a melee weapon because flames doesn't do much damage and magicka doesn't last long enough to do any real damage. The really difficult part is walking a tightrope to find the right balance, but I think overall even melee players are overpowered once they reach into 40s and higher levels in the vanilla game.

And you're right on all accounts. That's why there are mods that overhaul the perks and skills of the game and likely why they are so popular.

[remlnx]

But honestly Vanilla Perks are really done in rush and you feel it while playing a mage.

 

Ordinator is the best choice, but most of EnaiSiaion mods are really worth, tested and perfectioned over years.

 

Also for STEP i don't see the need to keep vanilla Perks, you don't lose the general vanilla feel and you get more balance by using Ordinator.

 

Plus it open up a lot of variation and lot of new possible viable builds.

 

Just my 5 cents

 

Inviato dal mio MHA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Shadriss]

Hey Shadriss, I wanted to let you know that USLEEP has negated the Conjuration and Summoning Fixes, you can confirm here (go to find on page, type "Conj" and look at the 5th entry).

 

Also, wanted to know if you still got Immersive Winterhold working and if you still recommended those other mods? Finally, based on the revelations here, are you still recommending Balanced Magic or Better Magic? 

 

Finally, to anyone here, I really want a mod that hotkeys casting, not equipping, spells from the keyboard; no more (idealy) no less. I am planning on using AH Hotkeys unless someone can recommend a better mod. I am almost done with my STEP installation and thinking about mods to round out my Spell Sword character.

Thanks for that confirmation - I tend to get lost in the walls of text on the USLEEP threads.

 

To your other questions, I have gotten it working, but I haven't made it up to Winterhold yet to look around. It's not a stroll in the park to get there in my line up because of Frostfall, and I have to make sure I can survive the cold before I make that trip. I dropped Better Magic from my lineup in favor of Mighty Magic, and so far that seems to be working well. I feel like a regular Darth Sidious right now, dual casting sparks at everything and watching them fall before me. Once I've played a bit deeper into the game, I'll make my own recommendations, but I'm not at that stage yet.

 

As the the last, the only hotkeys I use are part of SkyUI, and those don't do what you are looking for, so no can help, I'm afraid.

 

This is one of the main issues. I think most expect the TES games to be more like other games based more deeply in D&D. We all have experiences with these games (mine lay heavily in the Neverwinter Nights series) so we all expect the mage aspect of TES to be similar because those D&D games pull off these aspects so well. I know when I think of mages, I certainly think back to my wonderful experiences with those games. Fact is, the TES games haven't been build in this manner so we likely need to shift our thinking that the developers may not have expected users to be able to play as strict mages. Though there's plenty of evidence that would lead us to think that they did since there are strictly mage NPCs in the game. Regardless, it's certainly broken. My first playthrough of these types of game are always mage characters...my first playthrough of Skyrim was a mage in God Mod because I died everywhere I went.

Mages are almost universally the opposite of the warrior... weak where they are strong, smart where they are no-so-much, and so forth. There are always exceptions to this - it's been done before, of course - but the general image of the Mage, even withing TES, if of a person who spends all their time in books and study to master a form of applied science that allows little time for other martial pursuits. In a lot of books and the like, what TES would call a spellsword is usually a former Mage who left their studies for whatever reason, and not a warrior who picked up a few spells here or there. Skyrim paints this same picture, given that the Mages are in a COLLEGE. I agree that the Devs may not have been thinking in this line... at least some of them. There seems to be something of a split-personality psychosis going on here.

 

But honestly Vanilla Perks are really done in rush and you feel it while playing a mage.

 

Ordinator is the best choice, but most of EnaiSiaion mods are really worth, tested and perfectioned over years.

 

Also for STEP i don't see the need to keep vanilla Perks, you don't lose the general vanilla feel and you get more balance by using Ordinator.

 

Plus it open up a lot of variation and lot of new possible viable builds.

 

Just my 5 cents

Alot of the Vanilla Perks are out of balance, poorly thought through, rushed, or some combination of all three, I agree. I'm not saying that I don't use a few perk tree mods - I do. Kryptopter has a pair of them to address the Stealth and Blacksmithing issues which work quite well for me. However, your comment regarding STEP is... well, it's showing a lack of understanding of it's intent, I think.

 

STEP is designed to augment vanilla, not replace it. By which I mean we want it to look better as much as possible, run as smooth as possible, and fix as many bugs as possible without straying too far from the base game. That's it's intent, it's purpose, it's mandate. Ordinator or any other perk tree mod substantially veers from this. Bad design, which is what we are seeing here, I think, is not a bug. Therefor, rebalancing or altering goes beyond the purposes of STEP, so they aren't included for consideration.

 

That said, I'd be surprised if any of the regulars here DIDN'T have a perk alteration or two tucked away in their personal builds.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said - apart from Ordinator being the best choice because YMMV.

[TechAngel85]

STEP is designed to augment vanilla, not replace it. By which I mean we want it to look better as much as possible, run as smooth as possible, and fix as many bugs as possible without straying too far from the base game. That's it's intent, it's purpose, it's mandate. Ordinator or any other perk tree mod substantially veers from this. Bad design, which is what we are seeing here, I think, is not a bug. Therefor, rebalancing or altering goes beyond the purposes of STEP, so they aren't included for consideration.

 

That said, I'd be surprised if any of the regulars here DIDN'T have a perk alteration or two tucked away in their personal builds.

STEP:Core adheres to strictly "augment" or "enhance" the vanilla experience. Another way of putting it is that Core is meant to strictly be an enhanced vanilla game. Everything about it will be in the vanilla aesthetic, but better. This means textures and game mechanics that are strictly in the vanilla style but are improvements by being higher quality, better designed, etc. A perk overhaul would likely never make it into Core. Keep in mind the goal of the Core Guide is to be a building block for anyone to use and build upon. It's a baseline or starting point that should work for just about any build you want.

 

STEP:Extended is a little more flexible because it is essentially our personal expansion upon vanilla (of which we're calling a Pack). It can actually include elements which are not in the vanilla game as long as they are consistent with the original intent, lore, style, etc. Therefore, it's not unfeasible that a perk overhaul could fit into Extended. Keep in mind that Extended will become our "official pack" when STEP 3.0 is released. The Extended mods will be completely separated from the Core mods and the building of STEP:Core+Extended Pack will be different than it is with the Guide today. This being said, STEP 3.0 will be our official introductions of Packs using the features/system that Mod Picker has in place now.

 

I suppose you're going to have to be surprised because I have never ran with a mod that overhauls perks. I have ran a few mods which alter a couple of them slightly (like CACO and Archery Gameplay Overhaul), but nothing as serious as a complete overhaul of the entire system.

[Kelmych]

But honestly Vanilla Perks are really done in rush and you feel it while playing a mage.

 

Ordinator is the best choice, but most of EnaiSiaion mods are really worth, tested and perfectioned over years.

 

Also for STEP i don't see the need to keep vanilla Perks, you don't lose the general vanilla feel and you get more balance by using Ordinator.

 

Plus it open up a lot of variation and lot of new possible viable builds.

 

Just my 5 cents

 

Inviato dal mio MHA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

The problem I have with Ordinator and similar perk mods is that it's all or nothing. There are mods like CACO and Archery Gameplay Overhaul that Tech mentioned, and Mighty Magick that make a lot of changes that I like outside of perk changes. If I use a perk overhaul I can't use any of these. I'm quite comfortable with using xEdit to provide compatibility patches, but the perk mods I've looked at make such extensive changes that this doesn't seem to be feasible. I also don't agree with all the changes the perks mods make. Ordinator, for example, makes some significant changes to Conjuration including allowing more summons which can potentially make magic overpowered.

[Shadriss]

That said, I'd be surprised if any of the regulars here DIDN'T have a perk alteration or two tucked away in their personal builds.

I suppose you're going to have to be surprised because I have never ran with a mod that overhauls perks. I have ran a few mods which alter a couple of them slightly (like CACO and Archery Gameplay Overhaul), but nothing as serious as a complete overhaul of the entire system.

I said alteration... not overhaul. That counts, and I'm not surprised. Also, I run both of those, as well as Krypt's Blacksmith Overhaul and Stealth Skills Rebalanced.

 

Kel nails it though for most Perk Overhauls in that they ARE all or nothing - all trees or no trees. In the cases we've been discussing right here, there are one (or, in SSR's case) three separate trees, not an entire rebuild. If more built that way way, it would be far easier to pick a few that might be deserving of Extended. Regardless, and I wasn't clear on this point, I was talking about STEP Core in my explanation, not Extended. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

[baronaatista]

I won't keep hammering away at this, but I feel the need to repeat myself a little as the thread discussion seems to have overlooked my earlier points.

 

Magery isn't anywhere near as broken in vanilla as everyone seems to be suggesting. I have seriously played almost every possible build/combination the vanilla game offers to 'completion' (fully developed with skills &perks, usually around level 50-60).

 

I keep hearing people describing 'having to resort to using weapons' and such, and I really can't help but think that you guys are playing mages with one foot out the door.

 

You absolutely can play a pure mage character in vanilla to great success. You just have to actually play a mage. Obviously Altmer, Dunmer, and Breton are your best choices for race if you're really trying to optimize (specifically Altmer as their racial ability is incredibly powerful). From there - wear mage gear. Take either the Atronach or Lord stone (Mage stone early) Use the Alteration mage armor perk, and the Restoration recovery perk. Carry a staff or two for some magicka recovery time, and as many magicka potions as you can carry. Finally if you're still struggling recruit a tank follower like Lydia or Kharjo, and give them the best armor and weapons you can get.

 

Yes there will be tense moments but I find that's true of any class - and desired. If you could just walk into any confrontation and expect to be triumphant (especially on early levels) without planning, preparation, gear, etc. It would defeat the purpose and interest behind half the games mechanics.

 

Again, there's that tough spot around level 10-25/30ish that is present in all builds - you start to face the higher level variations of enemies but don't have your build fleshed out enough to deal with them easily, and tactics, gear, preparation and so on become the key factors in your success. The only build that isn't very susceptible to this is a pure stealth/assassin type build. Everyone else is going to have hard time facing certain types of opponents.

 

When I play a pure mage - I play a pure mage. I'm not carrying around a sword or a bow. I'm not wearing armor, unless it's specifically an 'armored mage' build - and if that's the case I'm going to invest in enchanting early, because not wearing mage clothing with its powerful enchantments is a huge drag on your potential power early on.

 

This reminds me of people making 'weapon balance' mods for Fallout 4 right now, that all increase the damage of weapons to 'realistic' levels. I can almost guarantee these people are playing without taking the associated damage perks, and then complaining weapons are under-powered. Yes, if you completely ignore the in-game mechanics for using weapons effectively, you will find success difficult. This should not be surprising.

 

I'm not arguing the magic system is awesome. Just like every other skill, it is under-developed, lacking in options for tactics, with overly simple/uninteresting mechanics, redundancy and exploitative/game-breaking mechanics. However being severely under-powered is not the major issue here, and I feel any attempt to 'fix' THAT problem is bound to drastically un-balance the game.

[Shadriss]

I'm pretty sure I said I agreed with your assessment after I realized that I was doing EXACTLY what you just said I was likely doing. :) I haven't hit that hump in my current build just yet (Lvl 9 atm), but I know it's coming, and I'm sure I'm gonna get some frustrations.

 

That said, we did get a little derailed on the purpose of this thread, so...

 

...I'm going to derail it a little more. It's my thread, and I'll diverge if I want to. :p Tech/Kel/Anyone who knows - I'm considering putting my personal build up as a possible guide for others as well, and was curious if that's a possibility for us Bog-standard users or not? I haven't seen any options for it, so was curious. I could still do it in thread form, but that... could get messy. :)

Edited May 31, 2017 by Shadriss

[TechAngel85]

...I'm going to derail it a little more. It's my thread, and I'll diverge if I want to. :p Tech/Kel/Anyone who knows - I'm considering putting my personal build up as a possible guide for others as well, and was curious if that's a possibility for us Bog-standard users or not? I haven't seen any options for it, so was curious. I could still do it in thread form, but that... could get messy. :)

Sure, just create the guide in your userspace on the wiki as others have. That is your space to do what you will with it.

[baronaatista]

@Shadriss - my comment was more to those that chimed in after our exchange but seemed to have missed it.

 

Consider also - every time you swing your sword or shoot your bow as a 'mage' you are actively making yourself less effective.  You gain levels from all skills, and the enemies in the world adjust to that level.  Every skill point gained in One-Handed is one NOT gained in Destruction, Conjuration, Alteration, etc.  The world gets more dangerous and you haven't advanced the skills you need to deal with that as a mage.

 

If you're carrying around and using weapons/armor, then you are not playing a mage, you're playing a hybrid class.  I would argue hybrids are the most difficult classes to play, as they tend to use more skills to get by, and thereby are generally less skilled compared to their level than straight warrior/mage/thief classes.  They can tend to feel a little more comfortable in the early game, but by the time you get to level 30-40, because you haven't focused on the skills you intend to primarily use, you tend to be under-powered in what is now a much more dangerous world, and it will take much longer now to correct for this.

 

As this next bit is pretty off-topic I'll put it in a spoiler but I'm posting it anyway as I feel it's worthwhile generally in the discussion and perhaps someone will find it useful.

 

 

I create my builds with a basic philosophy;

 

You need one but often two offensive skills - one for up close and one ranged, unless you are playing a strictly ranged character (like most mage builds).

 

You need one but often two 'defensive' skills.  The conceptualization of defensive here though is a little fluid as Illusion and Sneak can easily work as such a skill if you are playing a stealthy character - where your defense is staying out of combat almost entirely.

 

From there, you should focus on one (potentially two if you've really got a tight setup with your offense/defense skills) crafting skill to support your class.  If your primary method of attack/defense is based on weapons and armor, it should probably be smithing.  If you're primarily magic based enchanting is likely your best option, and if a stealth character alchemy.

You then have just a little wiggle room for some support skill - Speechcraft is my usual go-to, but Lockpicking, Pickpocket, or possibly an additional crafting skill or some minor extra defense from restoration/block/armor skills.

 

The idea is that you are selective about the skills you will use at all, and really stick to them as much as possible as you progress.  Further, you should be even more selective about only investing perks into those 'class' skills you are actively using until you have fleshed out your build well enough to be really effective.

 

Examples;

 

Marksman/Illusion/Sneak with Alchemy

 

Heavy Armor/Two Handed/Marksman with Smithing

 

Destruction/Alteration/Restoration with Enchanting

 

One Handed/Marksman (or Destruction)/Restoration/Block (or Light/Heavy Armor) with Smithing (or Enchanting)

 

Marksman/Conjuration/Alteration (or Restoration) with Enchanting (Alchemy if not using conjured bow)

 

Destruction/Conjuration (or One Handed)/Heavy Armor (or Light Armor) with Smithing (or Enchanting)

 

The formula is;

- you have 3-5 skills to use as your offense/defense.  I find 5 tends to be pushing it, but is manageable if you're careful.  3/4 is best though.  

- you have one crafting skill and one 'support' skill.

- you should as much as possible only use these skills.  Little dalliances with non-build crafting or defense/support skills are acceptable but should be kept to a minimum until you've got enough of the build established to be fairly dominant in combat.

- you should exclusively invest perks into these skills until sufficiently advanced.

- this makes for a total of 5-7 skills that you will invest perks into and ideally use at all until you're around level 30-40.

 

This may seem limiting but the experience in game is quite the opposite - it feels rather liberating to really play and feel like the class you are intending.

 

 

[Shadriss]

Sure, just create the guide in your userspace on the wiki as others have. That is your space to do what you will with it.

I have a userspace?!? Where is this mythical beast, and how might I have known of it? Honestly, I've never seen anything in the UserTools that even hinted at this.

 

Consider also - every time you swing your sword or shoot your bow as a 'mage' you are actively making yourself less effective.  You gain levels from all skills, and the enemies in the world adjust to that level.  Every skill point gained in One-Handed is one NOT gained in Destruction, Conjuration, Alteration, etc.  The world gets more dangerous and you haven't advanced the skills you need to deal with that as a mage.

I had come up with this as well, though I will say that on my Marksman runs (my normal game style), I'm as much a thief as I am an Archer, and dabble in a little of everything except magic. It didn't slow me down too much then, but that certainly wasn't working as a Mage.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Shadriss

[TechAngel85]

I have a userspace?!? Where is this mythical beast, and how might I have known of it? Honestly, I've never seen anything in the UserTools that even hinted at this.

https://wiki.step-project.com/User:Shadriss

[Shadriss]

Thanks - I'd finally just found it. Unfortunately, the Wiki is having connection problems tonight, apparently, so I can't even manage to sign in. Problem for another day.

 

And now, back to our regular Mage-Oriented discussion, already in progress...