Smile44 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Neovalen, if you have time, would you care to share your thoughts on things like Climates of Tamriel, and ENB? That type of stuff is one area that's conspicuously absent from the guide so far, and I was curious what your thinking is on those so far. I'm also interested to know what your process is for checking out any new mods you use for compatibility with the rest of your list - are you just firing up the entire load order in TES5Edit and using a filter?I second that, been curious about how you determine where edits need to be made and which ones to leave alone. I would imagine that reading the mod info with respect to 1.8 and using TES5Edit with the ESMs and Unofficial patches and current mod selected would highlight any errors but which ones should be changed or left alone - my brain hurts just thinking about how many nodes there are coming up red in some mods. Link to comment
Solist Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks for the tip. Now Mod Organizer is just behaving strangely. I've deleted the old mod organizer install' date=' installed it into a new folder, rebooted several times and cannot install anything as MO immediately deletes the mods folder again.[/quote'] This has been fixed. A new version of Mod Organizer (Version 0.12.5) is now available here - https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/1334 Link to comment
Daagar Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The biggest issue with ENBs is that they tend to be very personal. Granted, you could say that about most any mod, but it seems to apply even more when it comes to ENB profiles. Just to give an example - I have an older system where I originally installed CoT with the "Project ENB" mod. For that monitor, it looked great and I was quite pleased. I now have a newer system available so I installed the same pair. And it looks awful now. But I went and tried out RCRN + RCRN Plus, and it was great. ENBs are _very_ particular to your monitor, especially if you have an old dying one like I apparently have :) Not saying that suggestions wouldn't be welcome, but it is hard to promote one over the other. Link to comment
Daagar Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sigh. A note for folks - Mod Organizer went wonky on me tonight (it could have been my own fault, I don't know exactly what happened) but it managed to wipe out my entire 'mod' directory. All those edits - poof. I figured darn, but no big deal, I'll just reinstall and grabbed the backed-up .esp files from the TES5Edit backups dir! Much to my chagrin, those backups are all made _prior_ to editing. Makes sense in retrospect, but I had it in my head they were post-edit backups (the original is in the mod itself! Why would I need it backed up?). So, don't be silly and keep a backup of your mod directory :) At least I don't have to go through the pain of downloading them again - that directory stayed put.I finally figured out what I did to cause this to happen, and turns out it was a legit bug in MO (still caused by my own lack of paying attention, but...). The MO author patched it up immediately, so be sure to update to 0.12.5 if you haven't already. Sorry for the derail, but I figured this might be a decent place to mention this since most folks will be heavily using MO here. Link to comment
PCG4m3r Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hey Neovalen, I went back and redid some of the TES5Edit changes on some mods to be sure I did them correctly. As I was doing this, I took some notes on some things I noticed, which you may want to be aware of and correct if you agree.  ---------------More Interactive ItemsExpand "Cell">"Block 8">"Sub-Block 4">"0005DE24">"Temporary" and select the "000B4DF8" node. I THINK THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED TO:Expand "Cell">"Block 8">"Sub-Block 4">"0005DE24">"Temporary" and select the "000B7DF8" node.--------------- ---------------SkyTEST - Realistic AnimalsSelect all Bethesda ESMs, Unofficial Patch ESPs, Distant Detail Hearthfire Edition.esp... I THINK THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED TO:Select all Bethesda ESMs, Unofficial Patch ESPs, Distant DetailHF.esp... Expand "Worldspace">"0000003C">"00000D74">"Persistant" and select the "0003AC46" node. I THINK THIS SHOULD INCLUDE:Expand "Worldspace">"0000003C">"00000D74">"Persistant" under Distant DetailHF.esp and select the "0003AC46" node.--------------- ---------------Guard Dialogue Overhaul In this section: ("Dialog Topic">"0800C497") Drag the "ImperialRace" condition from Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp to the corresponding check in Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp.("Equal to"->"Equal to / Or") I THINK THIS SHOULD INCLUDE:Drag the "GetPCIsRace">"ImperialRace" condition I mention this, because this particular node also has a "GetIsRace">"ImperialRace" condition and the other nodes before this in the guide didn't have two similar conditions like this. I almost dragged the wrong one over. :) Under "000E0FAC" node, should the "GetPCIsRace">"ImperialRace" Type be set to "Equal to / Or" to match Unofficial Skyrim Patch? You may have addressed a question similar to this in a previous post (AND vs. OR). I just noticed it's the only red Condition left in that particular node for this mod and wanted to make sure that was correct. I'm guessing it's ok. Also noticed in some places you have transposed characters "GetIsPCRace", but in TES5Edit it shows up for me as "GetPCIsRace".--------------- ---------------Alternate Start - Live Another Life (conflict with Guard Dialogue Overhaul) MINOR THING:Where you mention AS-GDO Patch should it have quotes like "AS-GDO Patch" ? It seems you usually put quotes around other newly created patch names throughout the guide, so just wanted to point that out.--------------- Also in BOSS Recognised Plugins: DSpSoB.esp has this comment underneath:      "Requires: Neovalen Race Compatibility.esp" I don't see that esp mentioned anywhere in your guide. Did I miss something or should we just ignore that comment in the BOSS results? Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Neovalen, if you have time, would you care to share your thoughts on things like Climates of Tamriel, and ENB? That type of stuff is one area that's conspicuously absent from the guide so far, and I was curious what your thinking is on those so far. I'm also interested to know what your process is for checking out any new mods you use for compatibility with the rest of your list - are you just firing up the entire load order in TES5Edit and using a filter?I haven't gotten to lighting yet... Last time I went with CoT/Project ENB part of the time and Seasons of Skyrim ENB for the other part with a mix of lighting mods... not likely to use CoT this time again. It has it's nice points but it does some things horribly wrong. Trust me when I say, I'm working as fast as I humanly can. ;) Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Neovalen, if you have time, would you care to share your thoughts on things like Climates of Tamriel, and ENB? That type of stuff is one area that's conspicuously absent from the guide so far, and I was curious what your thinking is on those so far. I'm also interested to know what your process is for checking out any new mods you use for compatibility with the rest of your list - are you just firing up the entire load order in TES5Edit and using a filter?I second that, been curious about how you determine where edits need to be made and which ones to leave alone. I would imagine that reading the mod info with respect to 1.8 and using TES5Edit with the ESMs and Unofficial patches and current mod selected would highlight any errors but which ones should be changed or left alone - my brain hurts just thinking about how many nodes there are coming up red in some mods.When I evaluate a mod in TES5Edit, first I load it up alone to check for ITM/UDRs (cleaning). Then I manually check if all the data is in the correct format(i.e. version 1.8).Once those are complete, I load just the unofficial patches + the mod esps and check for conflicts. Once those are determined I check with the full load order. TES5Edit does a fairly complete job of flagging any conflicts/errors but it does miss some once in awhile. I basically go evaluate each node and determine the best course. It's time consuming but it's the only way to get it right. Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hey Neovalen, I went back and redid some of the TES5Edit changes on some mods to be sure I did them correctly. As I was doing this, I took some notes on some things I noticed, which you may want to be aware of and correct if you agree.  ---------------More Interactive ItemsExpand "Cell">"Block 8">"Sub-Block 4">"0005DE24">"Temporary" and select the "000B4DF8" node. I THINK THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED TO:Expand "Cell">"Block 8">"Sub-Block 4">"0005DE24">"Temporary" and select the "000B7DF8" node.--------------- ---------------SkyTEST - Realistic AnimalsSelect all Bethesda ESMs, Unofficial Patch ESPs, Distant Detail Hearthfire Edition.esp... I THINK THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED TO:Select all Bethesda ESMs, Unofficial Patch ESPs, Distant DetailHF.esp... Expand "Worldspace">"0000003C">"00000D74">"Persistant" and select the "0003AC46" node. I THINK THIS SHOULD INCLUDE:Expand "Worldspace">"0000003C">"00000D74">"Persistant" under Distant DetailHF.esp and select the "0003AC46" node.--------------- ---------------Guard Dialogue Overhaul In this section: ("Dialog Topic">"0800C497") Drag the "ImperialRace" condition from Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp to the corresponding check in Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp.("Equal to"->"Equal to / Or") I THINK THIS SHOULD INCLUDE:Drag the "GetPCIsRace">"ImperialRace" condition I mention this, because this particular node also has a "GetIsRace">"ImperialRace" condition and the other nodes before this in the guide didn't have two similar conditions like this. I almost dragged the wrong one over. :) Under "000E0FAC" node, should the "GetPCIsRace">"ImperialRace" Type be set to "Equal to / Or" to match Unofficial Skyrim Patch? You may have addressed a question similar to this in a previous post (AND vs. OR). I just noticed it's the only red Condition left in that particular node for this mod and wanted to make sure that was correct. I'm guessing it's ok. Also noticed in some places you have transposed characters "GetIsPCRace", but in TES5Edit it shows up for me as "GetPCIsRace".--------------- ---------------Alternate Start - Live Another Life (conflict with Guard Dialogue Overhaul) MINOR THING:Where you mention AS-GDO Patch should it have quotes like "AS-GDO Patch" ? It seems you usually put quotes around other newly created patch names throughout the guide, so just wanted to point that out.--------------- Also in BOSS Recognised Plugins: DSpSoB.esp has this comment underneath:      "Requires: Neovalen Race Compatibility.esp" I don't see that esp mentioned anywhere in your guide. Did I miss something or should we just ignore that comment in the BOSS results?Neovalen Race Compatibility is an old note if your using Skyrim Revisited. I plan to update that as an unofficial DSpSoB patch in the future (along with some script updates). Ignore for now. That was my old compatibility patch (from when I didn't know TES5Edit so well) but people still use it(yay! 220 endorsements). I suggest using my patch instructions instead at this time. I'll take a look at your wall of text in the spoiler tags now.... Edit: Fixed all of those and in answer to this: Under "000E0FAC" node, should the "GetPCIsRace">"ImperialRace" Type be set to "Equal to / Or" to match Unofficial Skyrim Patch? You may have addressed a question similar to this in a previous post (AND vs. OR). I just noticed it's the only red Condition left in that particular node for this mod and wanted to make sure that was correct. I'm guessing it's ok. The answer is YES it should be Equal to/ Or to match the USKP. Link to comment
PCG4m3r Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Awesome, thanks for the quick reply and fixes Neovalen! Now gotta go install "Brows" ...trying to keep up with you. :) Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 God... was running around testing a few mods and got lost in game... I'm really loving my final result thus far and I don't even have a lighting mod yet. Link to comment
haelfix Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 The real annoyance is that Dragonborn is going to break a lot of mods here Link to comment
torminater Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 If I were you Neovalen, I would not release until after the Dragonborn aftermath. People won't have the time necessary to go through your entire guide moloch and play the game before Dragonborn comes out, even if you hasten as much as you want. And honestly, only a very small percentage of people will want to refuse playing Dragonborn to play a highly modded game for sure, but it's usually still the same game they've played for more than a year. It would be wise to just wait until the first Unofficial Dragonborn Patch comes out, that doesn't only ensure compatibility of the patches with Dragonborn, but actually fixes the bugs in Dragonborn. Otherwise... well I've looked through the guide and it is a phenomenal work, yeah, but it is still a incredible heap of work for everyone else, too. About 6-10 percent of the mods in your guide have to be treated specially, e.g. combining changes through the CK. If Dragonborn comes out, maybe 20-50% of the mods that didn't need a extensive special treating before, need it now to work with Dragonborn. Just my 2cts Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 The good thing about the Dragonborn DLC is that it's a new landmass with totally new items. There will likely not be many changes in the base game besides a few encounters and possibly a new boat dock area. We'll see though. This close to Dragonborn it's probably a good idea to hold off an "official" release but you guys here are already reaping the benefits so ;). Link to comment
Neovalen Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 *BEGIN RANT* Why the hell are mod authors so lazy when it comes to assigning values to their items? Who in their right mind thinks a necklace made with a silver ingot and a ruby sells for 1,000 septims? *RANT OFF* I am so tired of finding good mods but needing to tailor them for balance, it's going to make it hard for everyone.... grr! Link to comment
Satyre Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 How exactly do you debug possible conflicts using TES5Edit? I've been enabling the mods section-by-section until something breaks and to the HQLODs. I've tried both the med res and the hi-res versions, downloaded them again in case they were corrupt, etc. No joy. The game freezes while loading a new game as soon as a HQLOD mod is activated. Both the HQLOD hi-res and med-res meshes break the game. - This is wierd because the meshes apparently do not conflict with anything else. Link to comment
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