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kornest

MO + SKSE = Lag and Lower Framerate!

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Hi people, first of all let me introduce myself. I'am kornest! Pleasure clear.png
After some time of playing skyrim in my PS3 I decided to buy it from steam to finally start playing with some mods.

Now, after some research (Nexus mod manager vs Mod Organizer) I decided to install MO and I applied 2 mods, both of them requiring SKSE to function propelly.
Here's my dillema now:
If i start Skyrim from Skyrim launcher or SKSE, the game plays very smoothly but without the mods activated (the ones who actually need SKSE to work), but for some reason if I start the game through MO in the option SKSE, the game runs with both mods activated but I get a framerate drop. I'am talking like 20 FPS instead of the 50FPS I get on starting Skyrim via the 1st way described.

Any help or tips for this?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

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Hello GrantSP,

 

thanks for replying that fast. I've tested a little bit more today and it seems that it all comes down to activated or deactivated "administrator rights". Windows 10 does something diffenrent to Windows 7, where these problems did not occur! I also tried a different storage drive - HDD vs SSD: SSD's only reduce loading times. (sad but true: On my system all MO-Skyrim loading times are longer!)

 

In the pictures below you can see that I used a fairly "non-modded" skyrim installation. I barely go further than S.T.E.P. core 2D Fixes. FYI: I play in 1440p.

 

2.C. Extenders  

ENBoost

Skyrim Script Extender

PapyrusUtil-Modders Scripting Utility Functions

 

2.D. Fixes

Dawnguard

Hearthfire

Dragonborn





 

 

MOvs_Steam.gif

 

 image.gif

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What on earth have you done to the text? It's horrible. Why?!

 

And you provided absolutely no information about the problem whatsoever. Noone can help you if you use the "help my PC doesn't work" style.

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What mods did you install? Also, perhaps you have different INI settings (MO has own INIs) than otherwise, causing the performance drop.

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Yay, keep the negative rep coming. I missed it!

Dragonborn, I'm glad you took time to come here and help me with your very useful comment. Much appreciated pal :)

 

 

What mods did you install? Also, perhaps you have different INI settings (MO has own INIs) than otherwise, causing the performance drop.

The only mods installed at that time where SkyUI and Alternative Start. The information I gave, was the only relevant information I had

  • I bought the game on Steam
  • If I start Skyrim in the SL the game works fine with no framerate drop. 
  • If I start Skyrim through SKSE launcher, the game works with no framerate drop but the mods don't load.
  • The only way mods load is if I start Skyrim through MO with SKSE path include

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Lets touch on some points:

 

Now, after some research (Nexus mod manager vs Mod Organizer) I decided to install MO and I applied 2 mods, both of them requiring SKSE to function propelly.
 

Is this on a clean install of the game? There should not be any mods installed through NMM.

 

 

Here's my dillema now:
If i start Skyrim from Skyrim launcher or SKSE, the game plays very smoothly but without the mods activated (the ones who actually need SKSE to work)

Is this launch from Steam? If so then the game uses the configuration "ini" files in Users\your name\Documents\My Games\Skyrim. Each profile in MO uses its own set of configuration files. Your SKSE mods will not work as the mods are installed in MO and the Virtual file system is not loaded.

 

 

but for some reason if I start the game through MO in the option SKSE, the game runs with both mods activated but I get a framerate drop. I'am talking like 20 FPS instead of the 50FPS I get on starting Skyrim via the 1st way described.

As stated above each profile in MO uses its own set of configuration files.

 

 

  • I bought the game on Steam

kudos for doing that

 

 

 

  • If I start Skyrim in the SL the game works fine with no framerate drop. 

How are you doing this?

External to MO:

mods installed in MO will not load. No VFS loaded.

game uses My Games\skyrim

 

Inside of MO:

It has been my experience that the game will run, but SKSE and mods will not load. The game must be run from the SKSE shortcut in order to take advantage of SKSE.

 

 

  • If I start Skyrim through SKSE launcher, the game works with no framerate drop but the mods don't load.

Again is this from MO or not.

 

 

  • The only way mods load is if I start Skyrim through MO with SKSE path include

This is the proper way to run the game.

 

 

So to make troubleshooting easier you should only be running the game from MO through the SKSE shortcut. Running the game external to MO lets us know that the Steam / Game is working, but has no bearing when using MO.

 

How did you install SKSE? The accepted way is to add the exe and dll files to the games directory and then install the scripts that are required through MO and activate them in MO. If you do not know the proper way to do this, let us know.

 

Each profile in MO has it own set of configuration settings. You can run the launcher from the active profile to set video options, but do nothing else from here. Make sure that they are correct to your computer.

 

After you verify the video options are correct, disable all mods and run the game from the "Skyrim" shortcut and see if the FPS issue is there.

 

Activate the SKSE mod and run the game from the SKSE shortcut and see if the FPS problem is there.

 

As this is getting rather long I will stop here. Please report back with your results and comments.

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Lets touch on some points:

Is this on a clean install of the game? There should not be any mods installed through NMM.

 

Is this launch from Steam? If so then the game uses the configuration "ini" files in Users\your name\Documents\My Games\Skyrim. Each profile in MO uses its own set of configuration files. Your SKSE mods will not work as the mods are installed in MO and the Virtual file system is not loaded.

 

As stated above each profile in MO uses its own set of configuration files.

 

kudos for doing that

 

How are you doing this?

External to MO:

mods installed in MO will not load. No VFS loaded.

game uses My Games\skyrim

 

Inside of MO:

It has been my experience that the game will run, but SKSE and mods will not load. The game must be run from the SKSE shortcut in order to take advantage of SKSE.

 

Again is this from MO or not.

 

This is the proper way to run the game.

 

 

So to make troubleshooting easier you should only be running the game from MO through the SKSE shortcut. Running the game external to MO lets us know that the Steam / Game is working, but has no bearing when using MO.

 

How did you install SKSE? The accepted way is to add the exe and dll files to the games directory and then install the scripts that are required through MO and activate them in MO. If you do not know the proper way to do this, let us know.

 

Each profile in MO has it own set of configuration settings. You can run the launcher from the active profile to set video options, but do nothing else from here. Make sure that they are correct to your computer.

 

After you verify the video options are correct, disable all mods and run the game from the "Skyrim" shortcut and see if the FPS issue is there.

 

Activate the SKSE mod and run the game from the SKSE shortcut and see if the FPS problem is there.

 

As this is getting rather long I will stop here. Please report back with your results and comments.

Thanks for the help GSDFan. Haven't had time yet to teste your solution.

As soon as I can, i will try and give feedback

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Hi again, been a long time since last update!

 

GSDFan,

Again thanks for the help I tested your solutions and the FPS issue remais! 

After lot of thought I decided to unninstall everything and try my luck with Nexus Mod Manager, to see if the problem was with the mods tools or the game itself. I must say everything worked pretty good with NMM, suffering 0 FPS loss (always in the 60 or above).

 

It's kinda of weird why I'am experiencing troubles with MO when NMM works fine. 

I would like to resolve this issue, cus MO seems the best solution when it comes to update mods or update and manage de load order. Also I already had trouble with NMM in the past for not warning me when I installed some mods that could overwrite others.

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This should not happen if you followed GSDFan's advice.

 

DID you install SKSE as described in the STEP guide?

 

You might also be interested in the Mod Organizer Guide; it explains the basics of the Mod Manager and helps you set it up properly.

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This should not happen if you followed GSDFan's advice.

 

DID you install SKSE as described in the STEP guide?

 

You might also be interested in the Mod Organizer Guide; it explains the basics of the Mod Manager and helps you set it up properly.

Hi Thane,

Yes, but if you said it should have worked, then probably I did something wrong :S

Gonna try it again with a clean install and no mods, this afternoon.

I give some feedback later ;)

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It's quite possible that you did nothing wrong and that there is a problem beyond your control. But it'd be much easier to find a solution if it's just some mistake you made. Besides, why should you be the exception while we blunder through life? ;)

 

Seriously, follow the guides and see if it makes any difference.

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Hello,

 

may I ask if there's a solution yet? I'm stuck with the same problem, unfortunately :( A clean Skyrim (with ENBoost & SKSE) has a significant framedrop difference with identical ini's (@MyDocs/myGames/Skyrim and @MO profiles). 

 

my testparcour is starting with "coc riverwood" > around the sawmill > on the way to whiterun.

 

I've tested Mod Organizer 1.3.11 and 1.2.18

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Welcome to STEP @Maddin

 

"A solution", well considering the consensus is there isn't actually a problem, no, no solution.

What I mean by this is, 1000's of users have modded their games with many mods and HQ textures and see no lag when running it via MO and only 1 or 2 users, that don't provide modlists say they do!

Without empirical evidence to support claims like theirs it is pointless to try to counter them.

 

I would also mention using 'coc' to test a modded game may cause issues unseen in normal gameplay. Scripts that are supposed to fire, don't and those that aren't supposed to fire yet, do. Also many locations where areas meet are big candidates for frame loss as the player may be experiencing scripts, animations or other game elements from many areas at once. This is not to say those console commands are bad, but as a general stability test they do more harm than good.

Use @Arthmoor's LAL and go to a location and move freely about the world as you would in normal gameplay.

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Do you have Skyrim installed in a UAC protected folder (like Program Files (x86)) and have you tried disabling antivirus to see if this has any affect?

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Your OP said you were experiencing "significant" framerate drops. Do you mind posting figures so we can see what you are talking about?

 

Assuming all the assets for the game are stored on a fast SSD in a folder without UAC, using exactly the same INI settings for both the game and any ENB you may use, there is no reason, based on the code in MO, for lag. All that happens with MO is this:

Start the game via MO and the 'hooking' mechanism parses shortened paths to the BSAs like this:

INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aaa" maps to "Skyrim - Misc.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aab" maps to "Skyrim - Shaders.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aac" maps to "Skyrim - Textures.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aad" maps to "Skyrim - Interface.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aae" maps to "Skyrim - Animations.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aaf" maps to "Skyrim - Meshes.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aag" maps to "Skyrim - Sounds.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aah" maps to "Skyrim - Voices.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aai" maps to "Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aaj" maps to "Update.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aak" maps to "Dawnguard.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aal" maps to "HearthFires.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aam" maps to "Dragonborn.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aan" maps to "Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aao" maps to "HighResTexturePack01.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aap" maps to "HighResTexturePack02.bsa"
INFO (09:21:11.0474): "aaq" maps to "HighResTexturePack03.bsa" 

and also redirects the folders containing any mods to paths that the game expects like this:

DEBUG (09:21:11.0948): first access to Unofficial High Resolution Patch
DEBUG (09:21:11.0948): get file attributes: D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp -> D:\Games\ModOrganizer\TES5\mods\Unofficial High Resolution Patch\Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp: 20

Now the important thing to remember here is that all of this takes place BEFORE the game engine initialises. Once the game engine has all these assets and paths set in memory, MO plays NO FURTHER part in game management. (There is a minimal amount of code still resident in memory to ensure all of this is maintained, but nothing of a magnitude that would impact on game performance, or even be perceivable.)

 

Additionally the OP of this topic and your post are different in content, the OP is talking about an user error whereas you are describing performance issues when comparing the vanilla game with or without MO.

 

This isn't to sound as though your claim is dismissed out of hand, but if you could provide your INIs and logs in addition to some numbers to compare. Otherwise this is merely an exercise in hypotheticals.

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