MO Causes Immediate CTD

[Lykourgus]

Hello,

I've encountered an issue that renders Mod Organizer partially unusable when the number of active ESPs reaches a certain threshold. The issue is that I get an immediate CTD right after starting Fallout New Vegas, which is running the Tales of Two Wastelands mod with quite a bit of other mods. After some amount of trouble shooting, I determined that the issue is caused by Mod Organizer. And, unfortunately, it isn't contained to my current playthrough, I had the same issue a few months ago when I tried to move my Fo3 playthrough from FOMM to MO. While I was using the exact mods, load order and INI modification, the game CTDed right after loading. Here is the a video that shows what happens: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/103854271/MO%20Problem/Symptoms.mp4

 

Here was the trouble shooting process I used:

• Hypothesis #1: An ESP is missing its master. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/103854271/MO%20Problem/Hypothesis1.png)
  • Negative: Checked with FNVEdit, finishes just fine.
• Hypothesis #2: Possible NVSE script causing issues
  • Negative: Started without NVSE, same issue.
• Hypothesis #3: Game not Large Address Aware
  • Negative: Installed FNV4GB updated, same issue.
• Hypothesis #4: Mod Organizer causes the CTD (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/103854271/MO%20Problem/Hypothesis4.png)
  • Positive: Started command prompt with Mod Organizer, and copied every single file to another folder, creating a FalloutNV directory that's out of the MO system. Started the game from that directory, with the same load order and it started just fine. Leading me to believe that there's an issue with Mod Organizer that stops the game from even starting, when it reaches a certain threshold of ESPs.

I've tried all of the load mechanism, to no avail.

Somewhat confirmed cause: Mod Organizer - Exact cause unknown.

----------

One possible solution is to use MO as a mod installer. That is to say that I just use the same process to copy over the files to another directory to act as a better version of FOMM. But, that loses a lot of the MO benefits. So if someone could give me some pointers, that would be much appreciated.

 

Here is my mod install + load order:

[spoiler=Installed Mods]00 Tale of Two Wastelands
01 TTW Fixes
02 Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision
02 Alternative Repairing [FOMOD]
02 AmidianBorn-Bornagain-Book of Water - Outcast Trading
02 AmidianBorn-Bornagain-Book of Water - Standard
02 Better Balanced Backpacks
02 Better New Vegas
02 Bos DC Ruins Patrol
02 Bottle That Water
02 Busworld
02 CaliberX
02 CASM
02 Cirosans Classic Overhaul
02 Classic Fallout Weapons
02 Courier's Stash Pack Distribution
02 Delay DLC
02 EVE
02 FlashlightNVSE [Fomod]
02 Lutana NVSE Plugin
02 Manual Reload
02 Marts Mutants Mod
02 Missing Ammo Recipes
02 Mobile Truck Base
02 Mobile Truck Base - Van
02 More Perks
02 My Home is Your Home
02 New Vegas Redesigned 3
02 NVAC
02 Preorder Weapon Fixes
02 Project Nevada [FOMOD]
02 Realistic Weapon Damage
02 Resource Based Hacking and Lockpicking
02 Sortomatic
02 Streetlights
02 The Lone Courier
02 TTW Perk Overhaul
02 Urban Combat Overhaul
02 Weapon Mods Expanded
02 Weapon Mods for Fallout 3 Uniques
02 Weapons of the New Millenia
03 Concept Art Loading Screen (Modified)
03 Enhanced Blood Textures
03 Enhanced Camera
03 Fallout 3 Redesigned
03 Fallout Character Overhaul
03 Improved Automatic Ironsight Animations
03 Improved LOD Noise Texture
03 Interior Lighting Overhaul [FOMOD]
03 Nevada Skies
03 Nevada Skies - Darker Nights
03 New Vegas Proper Re-Animated
03 NMC's Texture Pack - Medium
03 NMC's Texture Pack - Medium_Large - Washedout Wasteland
03 Radiation Wheel
03 True Leaning
03 Vurt's Flora Overhaul
03 Vurt's Flora Overhaul - Dead
03 Weapon Animations Replacer
03 Weapon Retexure Project
04 A Familiar Friend - Pip-Boy 2500A
04 Advanced Recon Range Finder
04 Advanced Recon Trap Detection
04 DarnUI
04 FPS Weapon Wheel
04 Mod Configuration Menu [FOMOD]
04 oHUD
04 User Interface Organizer
04 Weapon Mod Menu [FOMOD]
05 Afterschool Special
05 AWOP
05 New Bison Steve Hotel
05 New Vegas Bounties I
05 New Vegas Bounties II
05 Point Lookout Reborn
05 Russel
05 Someguy Series
05 The Courier's Cache
05 The Inheritance
05 Ties that Bind
05 TTW Interiors Project [Combo]
06 Ambient Wasteland 2
06 Combined Community Sound Pack
06 Digital Nightmare
06 Improved Sound FX
06 Power Armor Footsteps
06 Realistic Equipment Sounds
10 Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision - Detect Traps
10 Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision - Project Nevada
10 DC Reputation - EVE
10 oHUD - DarnUI
10 TTW - MMM + EVE + Project Beauty
10 Vurt's Flora Overhaul - NMC

 

[spoiler=Load Order]# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
FalloutNV.esm
DeadMoney.esm
HonestHearts.esm
OldWorldBlues.esm
LonesomeRoad.esm
GunRunnersArsenal.esm
Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
TaleOfTwoWastelands.esm
TTWFixes.esm
ClassicPack.esm
MercenaryPack.esm
TribalPack.esm
CaravanPack.esm
Advanced Recon Tech.esm
Caliber.esm
CaliberXhonesthearts.esm
CaliberXgunrunners.esm
CFWTTW.esm
Detect Traps.esm
Project Beauty.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
AWorldOfPain(Preview).esm
NevadaSkies.esm
TTWInteriors_Core.esm
TTWInteriorsProject_Combo.esm
Interior Lighting Overhaul - Core.esm
Interior Lighting Overhaul - L38PS.esm
Project Nevada - Core.esm
Project Nevada - Equipment.esm
Project Nevada - Extra Options.esm
SomeguySeries.esm
Sortomatic.esm
Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.esm
Afterschool Special.esm
oHUD.esm
New Vegas Redesigned 3.esm
UCO-UrbanCombatOverhaul.esm
Better New Vegas.esm
The New Bison Steve Hotel.esm
Point Lookout Reborn by Jcro25.esm
AWorldOfPainFO3.esm
streetlights.esm
Project Nevada - Rebalance.esp
Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp
TaleOfTwoWatelands - Options.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Options.esp
TTW Perk Overhaul.esp
NevadaSkies - Darker Nights.esp
NevadaSkies - TTW Edition.esp
Afterschool Special-Exterior Lights.esp
PreorderWeaponFixesComplete.esp
DarNifiedUINV.esp
FPSWeaponWheel.esp
The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
The Weapon Mod Menu.esp
CASM with MCM.esp
ttw_unity_lone_courier.esp
ttw_bospatrols.esp
Project Nevada - Cyberware Additions.esp
Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp
Project Nevada - All DLC.esp
Project Nevada - TTW.esp
CCO - Merged.esp
Improved Sound FX.esp
Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp
Improved Sound FX - Merged Major DLCs.esp
PA Footsteps.esp
CCSP_ALLDLC.esp
Realistic Equip Sounds.esp
Digital_Nightmare.esp
DN_TTW_Patch.esp
NewVegasBounties.esp
NewVegasBountiesII.esp
TheInheritance.esp
Russell.esp
CourierCacheWSE.esp
More Perks.esp
Alternative Repairing.esp
Alternative Repairing - Tale of Two Wastelands.esp
Detect Traps - Options.esp
ManualReload.esp
ManualReload-OldWorldBlues.esp
MTB.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes HH DLC.esp
LFox Missing Ammo Recipes GRA DLC.esp
Advanced Recon Tech - Options.esp
Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp
GRA WRP Compatibility Patch.esp
ttwweaponmods_0.esp
TTWStashPackDistribution.esp
Weapons.of.the.New.Millenia.TTW.Replacers.esp
TTW Book of Steel.esp
TTW Patch_Outcast Tading_BoS.esp
Advanced Recon Range Finder.esp
Advanced Recon Gear - Project Nevada.esp
FlashlightNVSE.esp
QS_Blackwolf_NV_Backpackmod.esp
BBBackpacks-v1-1.esp
New Vegas Redesigned 3.esp
AWOPDeadMoney.esp
LFox Bottle That Water - TTW Edition.esp
Flora Overhaul.esp
Bash_Infiltrate.esp
Busworld.esp
AWorldOfPain(Preview)TTW.esp
AWOPDeadMoneyVendorPatch.esp
UCO - Options.esp
TiesThatBind.esp
TTW My Home Is Your Home.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp
Delay DLC - TTW.esp
RWD-TTW[Merged].esp
WeaponModsExpanded.esp
EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp
EVE - TTW Reputations.esp
TTW MMM + EVE + Project Beauty.esp
Vurt's WFO.esp
ILO - Tale of Two Wastelands.esp
Interior Lighting Overhaul - Ultimate Edition.esp
True Leaning.esp

 

Edited December 21, 2014 by Lykourgus

[EssArrBee]

Okay, well you may have to many BSAs. Extract one of plugin loaded BSAs until the game starts.

[EssArrBee]

Archives tab, untick 'Have MO manage archives'.

 

See if that works.

[Lykourgus]

Unfortunately there is no change.

[GrantSP]

According to the screenshot for Hypothesis #1 you have 65 hex or 101 plugins, well below the number some have conjectured is where Fallout reaches the limit, so I would look for a solution elsewhere.

 

Not really sure what your method in Hypothesis #4 is trying to do.

 

The definitive solution to show that MO can't handle that mod setup is to recreate it outside of MO, ie. install them directly into the Data folder and run it from there.

 

If by chance you were messing with ini settings regarding your CPU cores, ie.  iNumHWThreads , you might want to keep it at 1. A lot of the posts I've read all point to that as being an issue with newer hardware using older games, users assume they can just crank up the numbers and everything is fixed.

 

I should say though that I'm only tossing out suggestions, I have no definitive input and I am equally intrigued by your problem as you are annoyed by it.

[FalloutAddict]

I went through almost the exact steps, including step 4. I came to the same conclusion that it was MO. 

[Lykourgus]

  On 12/21/2014 at 11:41 PM, EssArrBee said:

Okay, well you may have to many BSAs. Extract one of plugin loaded BSAs until the game starts.

Good news, I've used your suggestion and it's working. Thank you, I'll do some more tests and if everything works out, this may be the soltuion.

  On 12/21/2014 at 11:14 PM, GrantSP said:

According to the screenshot for Hypothesis #1 you have 65 hex or 101 plugins, well below the number some have conjectured is where Fallout reaches the limit, so I would look for a solution elsewhere.

 

Not really sure what your method in Hypothesis #4 is trying to do.

 

The definitive solution to show that MO can't handle that mod setup is to recreate it outside of MO, ie. install them directly into the Data folder and run it from there.

 

If by chance you were messing with ini settings regarding your CPU cores, ie.  iNumHWThreads , you might want to keep it at 1. A lot of the posts I've read all point to that as being an issue with newer hardware using older games, users assume they can just crank up the numbers and everything is fixed.

 

I should say though that I'm only tossing out suggestions, I have no definitive input and I am equally intrigued by your problem as you are annoyed by it.

Hypothesis #4 was trying to prove that it was indeed MO by recreating it with MO but outside of the MO system. That is to say that, by starting CMD via MO (Essentially tricking CMD into thinking that my FNV directory is modded), I can XCOPY the files from the virtual FNV directory to a real FNV-Modded directory. Thus, recreating it outside of MO. And since it worked, it proved that it was indeed MO.