New to S.T.E.P. and have some questions

[zombiecurse]

First, I apologize if this isn't the right forum to post this in. I just got here . . .

 

I just have a few initial questions here before I get started on STEP. I had been using the REALVISION ENB mod order list before I found STEP, and I noticed that when using Skyrim Flora Overhaul and its dependents (Grass on Steroids, Lush Trees and Grass) along with TreesHD, my game slowed down quite a bit when out in the wilderness. I disabled these mods and the game sped up quite a bit.

 

I'm wondering if I can leave Skyrim Flora OVerhaul and TreesHD out of the core STEP install and still use the core patch, or if something bad will happen if I do this?

 

My plan is to use the core STEP setup, an ENB, and the Explorer's Guide pack, along with some of the more popular Vampire and Werewolf mods (Better Vampires, Moonlight Tales, etc.). Is anyone using any of these and have you experienced any major conflicts?

 

Also, does anyone have any issues using some of the more popular spell mods (Thunderchild, Apocalypse, Midas Magic Evolved) on top of the core setup and the Explorer's Guide setup? What about Deadly Dragons?

Edited June 3, 2014 by zombiecurse

[phryxolydian]

I stand corrected, then. 

[EssArrBee]

BOSS/LOOT adds those tags and bash just reads that part of the master list. Delev is if you delete Items from an existing list. Relev is if change stats to existing items. If you are adding new items to any list then no need to add any tag, just let bash or tes5edit merge plugin take care of that.

[Breems]

Just to add to the above - textures don't matter for FPS, so you can leave Trees HD in. It's meshes that cause the loss, and visual effects like ENB.

This contradicts evidence and a general consensus among most gamers/GPU manufacturers. 

 

Adding a few tree textures should only affect FPS marginally if that's what you mean, but up-scaling many textures adds up quick and hits FPS quite profoundly. 

[DocClox]

This contradicts evidence and a general consensus among most gamers/GPU manufacturers.

I think it's a bit of both. If you have lots of big textures you're going to run out of VRAM and then your performance will drop like a stone. But if you're only considering polygons per second, then meshes are what do the damage. Basically (assuming my understanding is correct) there are two separate failure modes here, and we really need to be aware of both of them. Edited June 4, 2014 by DocClox

[zombiecurse]

Alright, so I think I'm getting the hang of this . . .

 

I've installed the entire STEP CORE pack. It took a lot of time and I had to go over and double-check I had done everything right, but I'm seeing how this is such a powerful tool as it looks like it doesn't actually overwrite files, it just uses the one that takes precedence in the load order. I can see how that would be a big advantage compared to NMM. I've tested out my STEP CORE install and it seems to be working well. There's a number of overwrite tags on things, but I installed all the mods in the exact order that it said to, so I think I'm good.

 

I do have a few questions:

 

1) It says I can disable HighresTexturePack.esps 1 - 3 as long as I have them checked in the archive. Same with Unofficial High Resolution Patch and Better Weapon Swing Sounds. Is this correct?

 

2) For RealwaterTwo, I did  install the Falskaar and Wyrmstooth options as I'm going to be installing Explorer's Guide pack soon. I can just enable these mods in the plugins window on the right after I install these, correct? The esps give me warnings right now as the master isn't available, so I've just been disabling them (again, I see why this tool is so helpful).

 

3) If I want to install a pack on top of  a STEP CORE build, am I going to be creating a new profile and filling it with JUST the mods from that pack (e.g., Explorer's Guide), or am I going to just install all the pack mods after the STEP CORE mods in the original STEP CORE profile? A little confused on this one. I'm guessing maybe I create a new profile, enable all my STEP CORE mods, and then install all the pack mods on top? Something like this?

 

4) A little confused about what to do with ENB. I followed the ENBoost directions here. My understanding is that in doing so, I enabled the ENBoost feature while disabling all the graphical improvements. I'm assuming that to enable the graphical improvements, I basically just have to reverse the directions given in that link and then follow the guide for whatever ENB I'm installing.

 

5 Finally, I'm curious about installing mods from the Steam workshop. For the pack mods, I'm just going to wrap the .bsas up like suggested here. However, there are some other mods that I would like to use that aren't really part of any pack. Is the recommendation to take the extra step to incorporate Steam mods into MMO there just because it keeps the data folders clean, or is there some other vital reason that it says to do this? I'm all for keeping my data folders clean, but I don't mind if there's a few loose mods hanging out in there. Would also make it easier to keep track of updates through Steam, as I'm not always on top of that.

 

I know that's a lot of questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 6, 2014 by zombiecurse

[Vaportrails]

1) Correct. Although I don't remember disabling the UHRP esp; I DO remember having all of the HighresTexturePacks unchecked under the Plugins tab but checked under the Archive tab.

 

2) Correct. Although if you're not going to actually go into the game yet you can still leave it checked and then once you install Fal and Wyrm that error message will go away.

 

3) When Managing your profiles you select the STEP CORE profile and hit 'Copy' and then name it whatever you want, like STEP CORE Regs for example. The STEP CORE Regs profile will be an exact copy of the STEP CORE profile, no need to reenable anything; it will be exactly the same. Then while using the STEP CORE Regs profile just add mods to that profile. You'll notice though that if you ever go back to the STEP CORE profile the new mods you've added from the Regs profile will be there as well but they will be disabled ('unchecked').

 

4) I believe that correct.

 

5) Couldn't help you there.

[DoubleYou]

More info expanded upon Vaportrails explanations, which are quite good.

 

1) Only if in the Archives tab under that data grouping, the BSA order looks like this (if not, drag and drop into this order):

Skyrim - Animations.bsa

Skyrim - Interface.bsa

Skyrim - Meshes.bsa

Skyrim - Misc.bsa

Skyrim - Shaders.bsa

Skyrim - Sounds.bsa

Skyrim - Textures.bsa

Skyrim - Voices.bsa

Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa

Dawnguard.bsa

Hearthfires.bsa

Dragonborn.bsa

HighResTexturePack01.bsa

HighResTexturePack02.bsa

HighResTexturePack03.bsa

 

4) Just install your ENB.

 

5) There is a workaround where Steam places your mods into overwrite, but I don't remember if it was launching Skyrim Launcher or Steam through it. I don't use any workshop mods.

[zombiecurse]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

 

I have (believe it or not) a couple additional questions:

 

1) Priority Order - Which one is more important in MO, the one in the left pane or the one in the right pane (the plugins list)? The "Left Pane" tab in the MO guide makes it sound like the left pane priority is the most important, but I want to verify. My priority in the left pane is much different from the priority BOSS sets for the plugins in the right pane.

 

For example, I want to use Thunderchild and Dragon Souls Relinquished together. Thunderchild's author says that Dragon Souls Relinquished (DSR) needs to be loaded after Thunderchild for it to work properly. I loaded DSR after Thunderchild in my left pane, but BOSS prioritizes Thunderchild wayyyyyyy after DSR in the right pane (DSR sits around 40, Thunderchild is sitting up around 115). Do I need to manually change my boss order in the right pane, or has the left pane magically taken care of this for me somehow?

 

2) Similarly, I'm using Oblivion Gates from STEP Core and More Immersive Dawnguard Entrance from STEP REG. The note in the STEP REG guide says that I should place Oblivion Gates before More Immersive Dawnguard Entrance. Does this just mean in the left pane, or do I need to force that load order over in the right pane under plugins as well? Another instance where BOSS is giving me one thing and STEP is telling me another.

Edited June 10, 2014 by zombiecurse

[DoubleYou]

Plugin order is different from mod order. In all the cases you mention, it appears to be plugin order that needs to be such and such.

[zombiecurse]

So I would need to manually rearrange the plugin order on the right side? Hm, I don't know if I want to do that. If they were close to each other in the mod order I wouldn't worry about it, but they're like fifty mods away from each other in both cases . . .

[zombiecurse]

Alright, so this is where I'm at with this:

• Installed Step Core (also Enhanced Blood, Oblivion Gates, Sweet Mother and Dark Brotherhood Tenets Restored from STEP Extended) - seems stable. I took out Skyrim Flora Overhaul and HD trees to boost up fps a bit.
   
• Integrated Realvision ENB Guide into STEP Core. Mostly just put retexture packs in what I thought was the proper order in the CORE load order. Installed the weatherpacks recommended by Realvision ENB as well - seems stable after testing, although i do have a few semi-transparent meshes/textures for some reason (signs, the occasional tree)
   
• Installed Real Explorer's Guide - Seems stable, flickering/transparent meshes and textures persists, but I don't see that as a really big deal
   
• Installed my own personal choice mods - These were mostly spell, armor and housing mods. Most of them seem to be okay, although I note that a few of my personal choices for housing mods seem to have .nif conflicts with some of the REGS mods for things like books, candles, pottery, that kind of crap. Off the top of my head, Immersive Winterhold College seemed to use a lot of the same files as a lot of my personal housing mods. Not sure why this is, maybe someone could explain it to me? Doesn't seem to be causing any issues though. I'm going to provide a full load order later tonight, but just to list off a few here: Halls of Dovahndor, Castle Volkihar Redux (Steam), Apocalypse Spells, Aurora Doomstone, Thunderchild, Dragonsoul Relinquishment, Forgotten Magic Redone, Mighty Magick, Deadly Dragons, Midas Magic Evolved, Snake Pit (housing), Darkwater Den (housing), Bigger Badder Lich King Armor . . . This all seemed stable.

Now my last step is going to be to incorporate some enemy difficulty scaling on top of this. I see there's a gameplay overhaul pack, but I don't want to use everything in there, and even if I did I just don't have the space at this point (255 mod limit). What I do want to do is incorporate the following into my game:

• High Level Enemies - Skyrim Immersive Creatures Edition
• Skyrim Immersive Creatures - Revenge of the Enemies Version
• Revenge of the Enemies

I also want to use ASIS to spread the spells I've added (mostly from Apocalypse, a little too scared to add Forgotten Magic or Midas Magic Evolved to NPCs at this point) to the npcs, as well as increase their spawn rates and let them use potions (not sure if this is necessary with the additional three mods listed above, going to research further). I'm using the ASIS improved inis with this, along with the edited inis from the gameplay overhaul pack found here on the STEP site to incorporate any necessary inclusions or exlusions from the three mods listed above into the asis patch. I didn't install any of the patches from the gameplay overhaul pack because I wasn't using any of the other mods from that pack besides the three listed above.

 

I loaded up everything and did a runthrough of the beginning of the game. Enemies seemed a little more difficult. Not too much, but I'm guessing this is because those beginner enemies are just easy by nature so you can get out of the cave. Everything seemed good until I exited the "escape from Helgen" cave. Instant CTD.

 

I'm going to muck around with it some more tonight, but thought I'd see if anyone had any thoughts. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 12, 2014 by zombiecurse

[EssArrBee]

Basic edition of SFO adds in tons of stuff and doesn't hit performance too much. Definitely not a minor upgrade. The other versions of SFO are a bit more performance intensive and STEP doesn't recommend those unless you are willing to take the hit. The author of that mod has a core i7/Titan system so he makes the newest versions for people with that type of power.

[zombiecurse]

Sorry, I worded that poorly. Not a minor upgrade, I just didn't really feel the need for it or HD trees. Edited my original comment.

 

Edit: So I redid the bash patch and played through Helgen again. It doesn't always crash right after I leave the cave, but the game has crashed within half an hour or so of leaving the cave 4/4 times. At this point not sure if it's the ASIS patch or some other mod conflict. I've posted my load order below on the offchance someone wants to take a look at it.

 

I know it lists more than 255 mods (around 259 I believe), but around 13 of them are disabled either due to MO telling me that I only needed the archive enabled, or the mod being merged by Wrye Bash into the bashed patch (there are a couple STEP Core mods that it recommended I do this for).

 

[spoiler=Load Order]

Skyrim.esmUpdate.esmUnofficial Skyrim Patch.espDawnguard.esmUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.espHearthFires.esmUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.espDragonborn.esmUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.espFalskaar.esmWyrmstooth.espSkyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esmClimatesOfTamriel.esmETaC - RESOURCES.esmLanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esmmannyBlackRock.esmmannyDragonhead.esmORS_MorthalPain.esmORS_SolitudeGate.esmWinterholdDestruction.esmREGS - Resources.esmHighResTexturePack01.espHighResTexturePack02.espHighResTexturePack03.espVLCollisionFix.espUnofficial High Resolution Patch.espWeapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.espADS.espAOS.espBWS.espDragonShoutVoice.espIHSS.espImproved Combat Sounds v2.2.espCutting Room Floor.espTradeBarter.espAuto Unequip Ammo.espBring Out Your Dead.espClamsDropPearls.espDead Body Collision.espfFastTravelSpeedMult_4.espFISS.espMoss Rocks.espMoss Rocks_DB.espORM-Arvak.espPilgrimsDelight.espPoint The Way.espSkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.espTraps Make Noise.espNoxUE2.00.espRaceMenu.espRaceMenuPlugin.espSkyUI.espAvatar of Baltazar.espAvatar Of Grenth.espBigger Badder Lich King Version 2.0.espBigger Badder Lich King additional Smaller Versions.espBlackSacramentArmor.esp1nivWICCloaks.espContractor Armor.espDaggerCraft.espElemental Staves.espEvil MasterMind Armor.espImproved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.espExplosiveBoltsVisualized.espHell Sword.espHothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.espHothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.espImmersive Weapons.espInquisitor Set.espKTAAncientShroudedArmor.espKTABladeOfWoe.espLore Weapon Expansion - Goldbrand.espMedusa and Drakul Armors.espThanatos Dragonx.espWarglaive of Azzinoth.espDeadlyDragons.espDeadlyMonsters.espAdalMatar.espAethernautics.espquest_andtherealmsofdaedra.espApple garden.espBetter City Entrances - All in one.espCollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.espCWIDawnDragonPatch.espCWINPCImprovements.espDaggercross_Alley.espDragonmournInn.espFH_Plaguesword.espGildergreen Regrown.espgonkishvampdens.esptos_granitehall.espHallsOfDovahndor.espHebrock_Der Schatten von Meresis - EV.esphigh hrothgar overhaul.espImmersive Orc Strongholds.espInconsequential NPCs.espInconsequential NPCs - CRF Compatibility Patch.espInns and Taverns.espKhalSpellmakingMod.espMagic of the Magna-Ge.espMzarkWonders.espDawnofRiften.espNightingale Hall.espquest_nomercy.espORS_ChaptersLinker.espORS_DremoraUpdate.espquest_pitfighter.espquest_pitfighter_dlc01.espReaper's The Dark Tower.espRun For Your Lives.espWhen Vampires Attack.espquest_seaofghosts.espSky Haven Temple M&M3.espSnowbound Acres.espTheDomain.espThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.espthesnakepit.espThunderchild - Epic Shout Package.espDragon Soul Relinquishment.espUndeath.espThunderchild Wyrmstooth Patch.espAppropriately Attired Jarls Redux.espDistant DetailHF.espDiversePriests.espGuard Dialogue Overhaul.espSkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.espConvenient Horses.espdD - Enhanced Blood Main.espdD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.espSoul Gems Differ - E.espThieves Guild Requirements.espskyforgedWeapons.espaMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.espREGS - Better Docks.espDarkbroSanctuary1.0.0.espDrinking Fountains of Skyrim.espRBB Long and Row Boats - REGS.espRBB - Row Boats - Hearthfire Hotfix.espETaC - Complete.espETaC - Complete Plaguesword Patch.espETaC - Complete Taverns Patch.espETaC - Complete LoS Patch.espExpandedWinterholdRuins.espETaC - Complete EWDR Patch.espHelgen Reborn.espRavenRockExpanded.esptos_amber_guard.esptos_laintardale_hf.espUnderstone Keep Repair.espHearthfireChimneysFalskaar.espHearthfireChimneys - ETaC.espOblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.espBetterDGEntrance.espUniqueBorderGates-All.espUniqueBorderGates-All-PointTheWay.espUniqueBorderGates-All-BetterDGEntrance.espPrometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.espPrometheus_NSUTR Falskaar Dock.espDawnofWindhelm.espBFT Ships and Carriages.espProvincial Courier Service.espRealisticRoomRental.espREGS - Cities.espETaC - Complete NSutR Patch.espREGS Patch - CRF.espREGS Patch - NSutR + RRR.espEnhancedLightsandFX.espELFX - NoTaverns.espELFX - Dawnguard.espELFX - Dragonborn.espClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.espClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.espSupreme Storms - Cot Version.espCoT-WeatherPatch.espCoT-WeatherPatch_DB.espCoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-40.espCoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.espCoT-WeatherPatch_NL4.espELFXEnhancer.espDVA - Dynamic Vampire Appearance.espBetter Vampires.espDarkManeuvers.espPredator Vision.espBrevi_MoonlightTales.espBloodmoonRising.espApocalypse - The Spell Package.espMidas Magic Expanded.espssapbwk.espBFSEffects.espDeadlySpellImpacts.espForgottenMagic_Redone.espThe Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.espVampirelordroyal.espdD-No Spinning Death Animation.espBeards.espBrows.esp3DNPC.espETaC - Complete 3DNPCs Patch.espMoonAndStar_MAS.espREGS Patch - 3DNPC.espREGS Patch - Riften NavFull.espRRR_3DNPC-Patch.espSPTConsistentOlderPeople.espmoveitLWT.espNonEssentialChildren.espAmazingFollowerTweaks.espAnimated Weapon Enchants.espDawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.espPurewaters.espRealisticWaterTwo.espRealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.espRealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.espRealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.espRealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.espWatercolor_for_ENB_RWT.espRealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.espAFT_iNPCFix.espBVandRB_Formlist.espCWIELnFXPatch.espETaC - Complete ORS Patch.espETaC - Complete Fountains Patch.espRRR_ELFX-Patch.espBashed Patch, 0.espAOS_Reduced_Reverb_Addon.espSMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.espSMIM-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.espSMIM-ShackRoofFixes.espSMIM-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.espSTEP Core Patch.espETaC - Complete BFT Patch.espETaC - Complete ELFX Patch.espLore Weapon Expansion - Daedric Crescent.espLore Weapon Expansion - Relics of the Crusader.espDarkwaterDen.espAurora - Standing Stones of Skyrim.espColdharbourDaedra.espEnhancedENBNightEye_withPredatorVisionPatch.espMoonAndStar_Undeath_compat.espMighty Magick - Merged.espblaze of eventide.espbarenziahquestmarkers.espcleaner_castlevolkihar3.espdaedricassassinarmorlight.espdaedricmaskeng.esplefthandrings.esplightweight potions and poisons.esplosttomb.esplm_astronach.espnightingale agent armour black - thegreylight.espdragonpriestmasks.espDr_Bandolier.espDr_BandolierDG.espRebirth Monster - SIC Patch.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures.espHigh Level Enemies - SIC Falskaar.espHigh Level Enemies - SIC.espRebirth Monster.espASIS-Dependency.espASIS.esp

 

 

Edited June 13, 2014 by zombiecurse