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Soulmancer

Inconsistent tree brightness

Question

Hello,

 

I am using Enhanced Vanilla Trees (newest version) I selected Snowy Pines options (alt trees download) and SFO branches ver 2 (alt branches download)

 

I generate 3d tree lods with a -10 brightness (high quality dyndolod preset)

 

I am getting this inconsistency at the top part of forest pine tree seems much brighter then the bottom part.  also some trees are just overall much brighter than others such as the light/semi snow pines being much brighter than the other trees.   Any suggestions or is that the mod author that would need to balance this?

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067127032545280/20200712194839_1.jpg

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067113363308575/20200712194914_1.jpg

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The tree LOD brightness settings affects billboards textures only obviously.

 

Tree LOD models with normals, bi/tangents and normal maps react to light the same way as any other model and do not need such brightness adjustments.

 

Double check / edit the tree LOD models. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm also having this issue with EVT Trees SE-Lush Trees small. I used the Darker mesh option, since it's listed for ENB users.

Could using Darker cause the tree tops to appear brighter than the bottom?

EVT.thumb.jpg.d253e79d768e1230325edae25756ba23.jpg

For all my xLODGen, TexGen, DynDOLOD settings, I used the SSE Guide and kept everything on default settings, I didn't manually adjust anything. I only picked LOD32 for xLODGen, and 1440p for TexGen, but my trees turned out with brighter tops than the bottom.

You'll see that most of the trees on the right have brighter tops.

So when you mentioned before about editing the tree lods, I don't understand if my situation is the same, and if I followed the SSE Guide here and used the same tree mod, I don't get why my trees still turned out like this, unless the Darker mesh setting is the problem, it's the only thing I did different from the guide.

748587442_TreeTopsBrighter.thumb.jpg.b5485a823e751764f8772651f02d8952.jpg

THANKS

Edited by mooit

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1 hour ago, mooit said:

I'm also having this issue with EVT Trees SE-Lush Trees small. I used the Darker mesh option, since it's listed for ENB users.

Could using Darker cause the tree tops to appear brighter than the bottom?

EVT.thumb.jpg.d253e79d768e1230325edae25756ba23.jpg

For all my xLODGen, TexGen, DynDOLOD settings, I used the SSE Guide and kept everything on default settings, I didn't manually adjust anything. I only picked LOD32 for xLODGen, and 1440p for TexGen, but my trees turned out with brighter tops than the bottom.

You'll see that most of the trees on the right have brighter tops.

So when you mentioned before about editing the tree lods, I don't understand if my situation is the same, and if I followed the SSE Guide here and used the same tree mod, I don't get why my trees still turned out like this, unless the Darker mesh setting is the problem, it's the only thing I did different from the guide.

748587442_TreeTopsBrighter.thumb.jpg.b5485a823e751764f8772651f02d8952.jpg

THANKS

You seem to have questions relating to a third party mod and its 3D LOD assets, you might want to check with the author of the mod or its comments.

DynDOLOD typically simply uses 3rd party LOD assets as is. LOD does not support all the same shader options as full models.

Use tfc and check how full model trees look at about the same distance as the 3D tree LOD models.
If you believe the 3D LOD assets do not match the full model trees or their lighting well at that distance, then check if the 3D tree LOD models use the same crown shape and shader/texture as the full model.

If they do, consider editing the 3D LOD assets directly. For example darken their vertex colors individually, since DynDOLOD INI settings like CrownBrightness affect all 3D tree LOD models equally. https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD#3D-Tree-LOD-Brightness

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As I have mentioned in the other topic, the normal faces don't point towards the sky light source like lower branches do, so you can get T/B differences in different lighting situations (weather and ToD). This can be exacerbated by the textures chosen for EVT and to some extent the mesh Lighting Effect values.

I don't recommend using the darker meshes, as those probably also exacerbate the issue. Go with the defaults for installing EVT, or choose a few different options , and install as different mods (there are hundreds of combinations and results). Run different outputs of TexGen and DynDOLOD for compares.

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I'm not thinking about this so much as 3rd party, but that for trees and landscapes my setup is similar to the Guide, so I don't understand then, why I have this issue with EVT.

I did go back and tried EVT with the default mesh, same thing, maybe the Lush trees are the issue, I'll try the Basic.

What's tfc?

THANKS

 

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1 hour ago, mooit said:

I'm not thinking about this so much as 3rd party, but that for trees and landscapes my setup is similar to the Guide, so I don't understand then, why I have this issue with EVT.

I did go back and tried EVT with the default mesh, same thing, maybe the Lush trees are the issue, I'll try the Basic.

What's tfc?

THANKS

 

Choose different textures with default mesh

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Posted (edited)

I just tried EVT 4K and the same thing.

Shouldn't the EVT textures just work out the box without having to mess around like this? I thought it's the reason it's in the SSE guide, because they just work.

So I don't get why I am having this issue with a mod like EVT hmm

Edited by mooit

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OK, I used tfc and went over to the trees, and from what I can tell, it's not the tops of the trees, it's that some trees are appearing brighter behind darker trees giving this illusion.

I also found this tree with no texture either.

Tree.thumb.jpg.f7c09d89272bd068121bb709582e265c.jpg

EVT is the only tree mod I have installed, so I don't get why this is purple.

Hmm I need to play with some other tree mods, EVT is just not looking good to me.

THANKS

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45 minutes ago, mooit said:

OK, I used tfc and went over to the trees, and from what I can tell, it's not the tops of the trees, it's that some trees are appearing brighter behind darker trees giving this illusion.

I also found this tree with no texture either.

Tree.thumb.jpg.f7c09d89272bd068121bb709582e265c.jpg

EVT is the only tree mod I have installed, so I don't get why this is purple.

Hmm I need to play with some other tree mods, EVT is just not looking good to me.

THANKS

No 3D LOD model was found for that magic tree and so it uses the usual 2 plane billboard instead.

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5 hours ago, mooit said:

I just tried EVT 4K and the same thing.

Shouldn't the EVT textures just work out the box without having to mess around like this? I thought it's the reason it's in the SSE guide, because they just work.

So I don't get why I am having this issue with a mod like EVT hmm

EVT has many texture options.

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13 hours ago, mooit said:

I just tried EVT 4K and the same thing.

Shouldn't the EVT textures just work out the box without having to mess around like this? I thought it's the reason it's in the SSE guide, because they just work.

So I don't get why I am having this issue with a mod like EVT hmm

 

On 7/12/2020 at 10:10 PM, Soulmancer said:

Hello,

 

I am using Enhanced Vanilla Trees (newest version) I selected Snowy Pines options (alt trees download) and SFO branches ver 2 (alt branches download)

 

I generate 3d tree lods with a -10 brightness (high quality dyndolod preset)

 

I am getting this inconsistency at the top part of forest pine tree seems much brighter then the bottom part.  also some trees are just overall much brighter than others such as the light/semi snow pines being much brighter than the other trees.   Any suggestions or is that the mod author that would need to balance this?

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067127032545280/20200712194839_1.jpg

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067113363308575/20200712194914_1.jpg

This is EVT 2.2.1 Lush Trees file with SFO v1 textures, and the Step ENB ... no issues, IMO:

SkyrimSE 2022-07-14 18-45-36-65.jpgSkyrimSE 2022-07-14 18-45-41-57.jpg

Some EVT texture options may behave differently in combination with some mesh options as well as TexGen/DynDOLOD settings, ENB, and weather mods. With 'good' settings and configuration, the different brightness at tops of trees (can be darker or brighter, depending) is avoidable.

The root cause is due to lighting reflecting differently at tops of pine trees, because the branch planes face out at varying angles rather 'up' towards the sky like lower branches. This causes light to behave differently ... but it can be mitigated by configuration choices as I said. The same happens with pine trees in other tree mods to varying degrees.

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Posted (edited)

The screen shot on the left, look at the trees the farthest out in the distance on the left, if you stare very closely, you can make out what looks bright tops too on a few of them, but it's very faint.

It looks like this is just how EVT is, I've tried three different versions, all the same.

But as I mentioned before, it's not the top of the tree, it's trees that are lighter in color behind darker trees, giving the illusion that the ones in front have a dark top.

I just tried 'Happy Little Trees' and didn't see this issue on any tree.

THANKS

Edited by mooit

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16 hours ago, mooit said:

The screen shot on the left, look at the trees the farthest out in the distance on the left, if you stare very closely, you can make out what looks bright tops too on a few of them, but it's very faint.

It looks like this is just how EVT is, I've tried three different versions, all the same.

As I said, it's hardly noticeable and no issue, IMO. Your setup exacerbates the problem, and I have mentioned several ways to mitigate with vanilla-based pine mods.

16 hours ago, mooit said:

But as I mentioned before, it's not the top of the tree, it's trees that are lighter in color behind darker trees, giving the illusion that the ones in front have a dark top.

It IS the tops of the trees and due to the normal faces pointing out, as I have mentioned a few times in the two or three topics where you have brought this up.

16 hours ago, mooit said:

I just tried 'Happy Little Trees' and didn't see this issue on any tree.

Those are very different and custom meshes in no way taken from vanilla. The top branches are situated similarly to the bottom branches.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2022 at 9:25 PM, sheson said:

No 3D LOD model was found for that magic tree and so it uses the usual 2 plane billboard instead.

 

Ahh this is Sleeping Tree Camp.

Sleeping Tree Camp | Elder Scrolls | Fandom

This is a tree in SSE, I assumed there's a tree lod for it?

 

PurpleTree.thumb.jpg.5ae07db54e85beded87a0c16e1ec9fc1.jpg

 

THANKS

P.S. I found Fancy Sleeping Tree Replacer (I'll give this a go)

Fancy Sleeping Tree Replacer at Skyrim Special Edition Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

Edited by mooit

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