Inconsistent tree brightness

[Soulmancer]

Hello,

 

I am using Enhanced Vanilla Trees (newest version) I selected Snowy Pines options (alt trees download) and SFO branches ver 2 (alt branches download)

 

I generate 3d tree lods with a -10 brightness (high quality dyndolod preset)

 

I am getting this inconsistency at the top part of forest pine tree seems much brighter then the bottom part.  also some trees are just overall much brighter than others such as the light/semi snow pines being much brighter than the other trees.   Any suggestions or is that the mod author that would need to balance this?

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067127032545280/20200712194839_1.jpg

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/472571934463229953/732067113363308575/20200712194914_1.jpg

[mooit]

I've tried just about every combination possible, with the exception of not trying some of the 'Greener Pines' options, but I did try several of them, with several textures, and they never made any differences.

The only changes I could make happen was with Vanilla None/darker textures, but then, I now end up a mixture of dark and light running on both sides of some trees.

So percentage wise, I went through about 90% of this, and I find it odd, that this has been extremely difficult to correct, and I don't believe I have any unusual mod setup, to where it would cause this issue, but if I did, I'd certainly love for someone to show what they believe could cause this in the setup, because I've disabled many times, with many different tests many texture and lighting mods, and nothing changed this either in my setup.

Also, when I created my mod setup, I did not see anywhere, where any of these mods were in conflict with one another.

Maybe I've simply uncovered a bug, no one has really seen much of before.

Here's a screen shot, I placed a red arrow over a tree, you'll notice now this mixture of dark and light on both sides of the tree, also you can see this color scheme now on several trees off in the distance too.

I've probably used in total 15 tree mods, and around 5 tree addon mods, since I started modding in SSE, I've never once seen this issue with another tree mod,  or tree addon mod, only EVT.

And I've spent a lot of time, over 2 weeks, also very methodically, carefully and around 40 hours on EVT and ripping apart my setup in MO2 disabling all sorts of mods, if anything where to be in question, then I took them out of the equation, but nothing works. 

Well, if anyone is up for a challenge, or would like to have a play, a go, I've attached my mod list, I've done all I can do.

THANKS

P.S. Fixed Mesh Lighting is in the guide, but I'm reading about some issues with this;

Fixed Mesh Lighting at Skyrim Special Edition Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

 

modlist.txt

Edited July 23, 2022 by mooit

[mooit]

Ok, I think I have it pretty decent now, with EVT's Default mesh and Vanilla Darker and TexGen HD Trees 100/65, but I'm guessing here on the TesGen numbers... hmm

 

 

If I use 

• Ultra: LOD4/Level0, LOD8/Level1, LOD16/Level2

Will I see the tress in the distance with any greater detail then I am seeing now?

THANKS

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by mooit

[sheson]

6 hours ago, mooit said:

Ok, I think I have it pretty decent now, with EVT's Default mesh and Vanilla Darker and TexGen HD Trees 100/65, but I'm guessing here on the TesGen numbers... hmm

 

 

If I use 

• Ultra: LOD4/Level0, LOD8/Level1, LOD16/Level2

Will I see the tress in the distance with any greater detail then I am seeing now?

THANKS

Setting all LOD levels to use 3D tree LOD models means that typically that billboards (HD or not) are only used if no 3D LOD model exists.

[mooit]

I assumed for EVT, 3D models existed for these settings?

Also I can't seem to get rid of the bright tops with EVT. 

In TexGen I set the HD Tree Direct 70 Ambient 65. I assumed with Direct at 70, I would of seen some sort of change? Direct 70, there is absolutely no difference.

Edited July 26, 2022 by mooit

[z929669]

4 hours ago, mooit said:

I assumed for EVT, 3D models existed for these settings?

Also I can't seem to get rid of the bright tops with EVT. 

In TexGen I set the HD Tree Direct 70 Ambient 65. I assumed with Direct at 70, I would of seen some sort of change? Direct 70, there is absolutely no difference.

using Level# at higher LOD# means 3D models in far distance. Much worse performance.

I use 175/60 for HD Tree. This will likely increase the specular of normal faces on the 3D models in the distance though. Experiment with something like 25/125

[mooit]

25/125 nothing...

I've tried many Direct/Ambient numbers, nothing changes, still bright tops. With changes in Direct/Ambient, there should be noticeable changes, and because I never see any changes, something here also seems wrong.

This is starting to feel like a Bug in EVT I've uncovered.

30 hours to change tree colors, hmm, it certainly shouldn't be this complicated.

OH, and I also used older EVT for DynDOLOD2 in the past, and I never saw this then.

I think there's an issue with the latest EVT DynDOLOD3 bringing this on.

This is 25/125.

It's strange too, how this is only happening on the trees in the distance, notice the trees in the closer distance/left, normal.

THANKS

Edited July 27, 2022 by mooit

[z929669]

33 minutes ago, mooit said:

25/125 nothing...

I've tried many Direct/Ambient numbers, nothing changes, still bright tops. With changes in Direct/Ambient, there should be noticeable changes, and because I never see any changes, something here also seems wrong.

This is starting to feel like a Bug in EVT I've uncovered.

30 hours to change tree colors, hmm, it certainly shouldn't be this complicated.

OH, and I also used older EVT for DynDOLOD2 in the past, and I never saw this then.

I think there's an issue with the latest EVT DynDOLOD3 bringing this on.

This is 25/125.

It's strange too, how this is only happening on the trees in the distance, notice the trees in the closer distance/left, nothing.

THANKS

For the last time IT'S NOT A BUG IN EVT. You have not found the best settings for your setup. Stop using small changes. Make extreme changes to the lighting. Use Billboard1/4 in LOD8/LOD16, not Level#.

IMPORTANT NOTE: changes to Tree/HD tree settings apply to Billboards on 2D planes and not 3D rendered LOD models of trees.

It's normal faces pointing OUT instead of UP. End of story. It works great for us and thousands of others, so either you are expecting perfection, or your particular setup is EXACERBATING the issue. The game isn't perfect, and some things either can't or won't be fixed to suit every persons pedantic requirements

Please stop spreading misinformation about non-existent bugs.

[mooit]

Billboard1/4 in LOD8/LOD16

Is LOD4 still level 0 and;
LOD8 Billboard 1
LOD16 Billboard 4

THANKS

Edited July 27, 2022 by mooit

[sheson]

8 hours ago, mooit said:

I assumed for EVT, 3D models existed for these settings?

Also I can't seem to get rid of the bright tops with EVT. 

In TexGen I set the HD Tree Direct 70 Ambient 65. I assumed with Direct at 70, I would of seen some sort of change? Direct 70, there is absolutely no difference.

The crowns of 3D tree LOD models typically do not use any textures generated by TexGen. The only texture they might use is the Rendered Billboard option for the trunk.

Changing brightness of Grass/Tree/HD Tree Billboards does not affect 3D tree LOD models.

Since you set the mesh rules to use 3D tree LOD models for all LOD levels, you will will only see billboards being used for trees that do not have a 3D tree LOD model.

See https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD

[mooit]

I want to be very clear here, I'm an adult, I'm not here to spread fud or create problems, I don't have any attitude, I'm happy, I'm only typing with no attitude intended. I'm actually very happy and having fun, and I appreciate all the help being given.

But, trying to figure out this EVT lighting, it has certainly been challenging.

SO, let's please keep it happy!

If memory serves me correctly, it was mentioned that other Tree mods should show the same issue(s). I also believe that to be true too, especially if there was something in my setup to bring this on, it would also show the same problem with other tree mods.

So is this correct, seeing this bright tops and dark bottoms, if one tree mod shows this, then other tree mods can show the same? Looking at what I understand about the tree mods, the differences between them, how they are modeled, made, packed/file formats, etc., at this point, I'm not understanding that the differences between them is that great. But that, they all typically work in the same manner(s).

Myrkvior I believe was mentioned, that it would show this same problem, so I figured it was time to start going back and start testing over other tree mods.

Here are three screen shots with Myrkvior, that do not show bright tops and darker bottoms, in different locations on the map.

This picture, the trees in the distance, this is where I would typically see the brighter tops with EVT, that I showed screen shots of before. Looking carefully in the game at these trees, at the same distance on the map, none of the Myrkvior trees showed any bright tops.

I'm going to test SFO and post those results.

Thank you everyone for your time!

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by mooit

[z929669]

49 minutes ago, mooit said:

I want to be very clear here, I'm an adult, I'm not here to spread fud or create problems, I don't have any attitude, I'm happy, I'm only typing with no attitude intended. I'm actually very happy and having fun, and I appreciate all the help being given.

But, trying to figure out this EVT lighting, it has certainly been challenging.

SO, let's please keep it happy!

If memory serves me correctly, it was mentioned that other Tree mods should show the same issue(s). I also believe that to be true too, especially if there was something in my setup to bring this on, it would also show the same problem with other tree mods.

So is this correct, seeing this bright tops and dark bottoms, if one tree mod shows this, then other tree mods can show the same? Looking at what I understand about the tree mods, the differences between them, how they are modeled, made, packed/file formats, etc., at this point, I'm not understanding that the differences between them is that great. But that, they all typically work in the same manner(s).

Myrkvior I believe was mentioned, that it would show this same problem, so I figured it was time to start going back and start testing over other tree mods.

Here are three screen shots with Myrkvior, that do not show bright tops and darker bottoms, in different locations on the map.

This picture, the trees in the distance, this is where I would typically see the brighter tops with EVT, that I showed screen shots of before. Looking carefully in the game at these trees, at the same distance on the map, none of the Myrkvior trees showed any bright tops.

I'm going to test SFO and post those results.

Thank you everyone for your time!

 

It's an issue with vanilla pines for reasons explained already many times. EVT is an improvement of vanilla pines. Myrkvior is an assemblage of trees from many mods and used to have the same issue with some pines. maybe it was updated. My point is that you are persivorating and assuming that it is a 'bug'. It's not. You just need to mitigate it through testing with alternate settings.

It's a combination of the normal faces in the meshes on top and the textures chosen (normal maps).

SFO may show this issue on some trees with some textures, but I have always been able to mitigate this problem with any tree mod where it's occurred, including EVT.

To reproduce, you must use analogous settings (Level0/Billboard4/Billboard1).

You must be methodical and test logically. You seem to do your testing in a willy-nilly fashion, and it's difficult to assist. You also post a lot before taking advice previously given, so most people aren't able to follow any logical progression. That's just your way of doing things, which is fine. But there are several topics on this issue you have brought up here and on Nexus. Continuing to ask the same questions over and over again and beating the dead horse won't do any good, if you aren't methodically testing according to advice given ... and RTFM goes a long way at this point.

You have all of the info needed to resolve your issue with EVT

 

[mooit]

All I can assume, that my questions, and replies, is that I've looked willy nilly as put, so that's my mistake, sorry I look hap hazard here on the forum, because I do things very methodical sitting at the computer.

My posting on Nexus isn't to beat any dead horse, or to ask the same things over and over, I also didn't expect to see you there replying either to my post, I was looking for answers from other members is all. You replying there as you did, is like stalking people. Because, from what I remember, you basically said the same things there, as here, so why did you feel the need to do that?

Remember, we are all not children, and you need to respect us as adults, we all make mistakes, I came here in good faith and respect to this place, yet many times, your replies come across condescending and you need to realize it, and not continue, and when people make mistakes, take a breath, step back and chill.

Also, on the advice given, I take all that is given, again, I guess my replies on the forum, make it seem otherwise.

I'll try to do better with my posting in the future, I know at times, it's not the smoothest looking.

On the topic of EVT, what everyone should look at, walking away from this, is how someone could end up spending 3 weeks and massive amounts of hours, and still get no where, no, not because I'm hap hazardous, clueless, not taking advice, doing as instructed, etc., I've done everything directed at me.

Bottom line, it's not working for whatever reason(s) call it what you will, but you have to be open minded to the possibility of software issues, and not simply think it's always the end-user screwing up or their setup is messed up.

Anyhow, thanks again for everything, I'm going to try and use another tree mod, I've wasted to much time on EVT and there is clearly this issue I can't seem to figure out how to correct.

THANKS

[z929669]

Sorry if I seem to come across condescending ... but look at it from the perspective of those of us whom have tried to answer your questions. I differ in that I also continue to beat the dead horse by continuing to reply to the repeated questions.

Know you that it seems this way, because others have largely given up ... and you post a lot about the same issue on multiple topics. I'm only trying to coax you into reading more carefully and slowing down. The DynDOLOD manual isn't simple to understand without a lot of prerequisite understanding, but you really should reference it to answer many of your own questions.

I (we) maintain the EVT mod, BTW (and several other LOD add-ons for other tree mods), so when you post about issues you have with those mods, I naturally respond for posterity and those that may be following your posts. Largely to clear the air and allay potential misunderstanding or misinformation.

[mooit]

21 hours ago, z929669 said:

Sorry if I seem to come across condescending ... but look at it from the perspective of those of us whom have tried to answer your questions. I differ in that I also continue to beat the dead horse by continuing to reply to the repeated questions.

Know you that it seems this way, because others have largely given up ... and you post a lot about the same issue on multiple topics. I'm only trying to coax you into reading more carefully and slowing down. The DynDOLOD manual isn't simple to understand without a lot of prerequisite understanding, but you really should reference it to answer many of your own questions.

I (we) maintain the EVT mod, BTW (and several other LOD add-ons for other tree mods), so when you post about issues you have with those mods, I naturally respond for posterity and those that may be following your posts. Largely to clear the air and allay potential misunderstanding or misinformation.

I sincerely apologize to you, and I truly hope you will accept my apology.

It was never my intentions to post over about the same things, and have it look like a merry go round.

I ended up going around, loosing track of things, and doing a lot at once. I'm usually very organized, I guess this time, I wasn't.

Without making excuses, this is probably been the worst of my forum posting days, so I'm really sorry, and to everyone else that reads this, that tried to give help.

I'm a gaming geek, and I'm always happy to help and be a part of any and all gaming communities, this one included, so I certainly don't want to be rocking the boat.

Let's just say I feel bad, so I will go read now and lay off from posting anymore and try to just figure this thing out on my own.

 

THANKS again for everything!

Edited July 28, 2022 by mooit