BSA Management off yet a BSA is taking priority over loose files

[IsharaMeradin]

Running 1.3.11 with Skyrim

 

I have a mod (Aesthetic Bolt Quiver) released on the Nexus that I was converting into a FOMOD installer for easier installation by users.  During testing I discovered that in-game certain textures were not correct as well as the all important XPMSE skeleton not present.  My mod has a BSA file that contains textures and a modified version of the stock skeleton.  The intent is that XPMSE if installed takes priority simply by being loose files and another mod (Explosive Bolts Visualized) takes priority over the textures because they too are loose.  However, that is not the case.

 

If priority (left pane) is:

XPMSE

Explosive Bolts Visualized

Aesthetic Bolt Quiver

 

Both the textures and the skeleton nifs from the first two are rendered useless and what is used are those from inside my BSA file.  My only recourse at this time was to created two FOMOD installers.  One for files to be placed before the other mods and one for files to be placed after the other mods.

 

Its an odd issue and I don't understand why it is happening.  Loose files are supposed to take priority over BSA contents when the BSA management box is unchecked.  MO is requiring that I have all the dummy ESPs active so that BSAs can be loaded (i.e. the official high res packs). So as far as I know BSA management is off.

 

Any ideas as to what is going on and why?  Is there some underlying mechanic that I'm missing or not fully understanding?

[GrantSP]

<snip>

...the only function of BSA Management is to use BSAs without an associated plugin. Of course, it would be interesting to get Tannin's definitive response on this behavior.

This is essentially the case. I posted a couple of issues regarding FNIS and another mod with a BSA in the GitHub issue tracker and his responses say as much.

 

To sum up what he said it goes something like this:

MO sees the BSA as a file when the VFS is constructed, the contents of that file are not sorted in any way. Loose files are shown as winning the conflict IF they come from a mod with a higher priority.

[TechAngel85]

Are the loose files higher priority in the left pane (lower than the BSA)?

[IsharaMeradin]

They are now because I had to split the FOMOD into two.  But originally when it first appeared the BSA was below the other mod loose files because my loose files needed the priority and I had only one installer for ALL my files.  

 

I always thought that MO gathered up the loose files from 0 -> Nth, made them available to the game with the latest version as the winner and the BSAs were simply shown to the game to load with the ESP files. Unless one turned on the BSA management in which case MO would include the BSA contents in its gathering of loose files. Seems however that MO is doing the latter no mater what.

[TechAngel85]

Every asset from any mod is presented in the "virtual" data folder. MO only takes the winning assets from all conflicts, though. If MO's archive management is turned off, the same holds true but the loose files should always win over archived assets.

 

Keep in mind, if archive management is turned off then you must follow the basic rule of archives and plugins must be in the same order.

 

That is the main reason to use archive management. So you don't have to be concerned with archive and plugin order.

[IsharaMeradin]

Every asset from any mod is presented in the "virtual" data folder. MO only takes the winning assets from all conflicts, though. If MO's archive management is turned off, the same holds true but the loose files should always win over archived assets.

That's what I thought and that is what I was banking on when having all my files in one installer.  But that isn't what happened.  It literally appeared as if my BSA was getting the priority over the loose files.  Could it be possible that something turned on the BSA management feature without actually toggling the UI to indicate that it was on?

 

Keep in mind, if archive management is turned off then you must follow the basic rule of archives and plugins must be in the same order.

 

That is the main reason to use archive management. So you don't have to be concerned with archive and plugin order.

That is the reverse of what makes sense, to me anyway.  If archive management is on then you have to be careful with your priority order so that the correct loose files over ride the BSA contents that are now treated as being loose.  If archive management is off then the BSAs shouldn't affect any of the loose files and only be looked into when the plugin calls for assets that the game cannot find in the loose files.  If that isn't correct, please give a concrete example, perhaps even something that I could test to see if I get known expected results in a new profile.

[TechAngel85]

To be honest I've never run without archive management, but putting together a test would be simple enough. I'll do so either this evening or tomorrow.

[Greg]

I tried a quick 'n dirty experiment and I can't find a difference with BSA Management checked or unchecked. I downloaded Aesthetics Bolt Quiver and added all the loose files to Isharas_AestheticBoltQuiver.bsa so I have just the plugin and the BSA without any extraneous loose files. Regardless of the whether "Have MO manage archives" is checked or unchecked, I see these results with your mod and XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended (all loose files) installed:

 

ABQ after XPMSE in the left pane and ABQ after XMPSE in the right pane uses the assets from ABQ.

ABQ after XPMSE in the left pane and ABQ before XPMSE in the right pane uses the assets from ABQ.

ABQ before XPMSE in the left pane and ABQ after XPMSE in the right pane uses assets from XPMSE.

ABQ before XPMSE in the left pane and ABQ before XPMSE in the right pane uses assets from XMPSE.

 

I've never used Mod Organizer with "Have MO manage archives" unchecked, but this does seem to contradict the information in the guide that implies loose files should override BSAs when unchecked. Assuming this is true, apparently the only function of BSA Management is to use BSAs without an associated plugin. Of course, it would be interesting to get Tannin's definitive response on this behavior.

[IsharaMeradin]

This is essentially the case. I posted a couple of issues regarding FNIS and another mod with a BSA in the GitHub issue tracker and his responses say as much.

 

To sum up what he said it goes something like this:

MO sees the BSA as a file when the VFS is constructed, the contents of that file are not sorted in any way. Loose files are shown as winning the conflict IF they come from a mod with a higher priority.

Well, that is good to know.  At least I'm not going crazy.

[DoubleYou]

You might be able to workaround this behavior by using a MO INI tweak with the sResourceArchiveList and sResourceArchiveList2 settings set to default. Not advisable, but it might work. It might also break all BSA files period.