[WIP] Mod Picker

[Terrorfox1234]

link removed due to potential spam/phishing

Description
Mod Picker is an ongoing project to design a web application for modding similar to PCPartPicker. The goal is to help users in the building of a mod list using crowd sourced compatibility information and mods scraped from the major sites that distribute mods (Nexus Mods, Steam Workshop, Lover’s Lab).


Benefits of Using Mod Picker

• It will be easier to find mods on mod picker than it currently is on other sites due to our extensive and easy-to-use filtering system.
• Mod Picker will have mod reviews, so you’ll be able to determine the quality of mods upon the basis of community feedback.
• Compatibility, install order, and load order notes will help you build a compatible and stable mod list.
• You can participate in the community by submitting reviews, compatibility notes, install order notes, and load order notes.
• All crowd-sourced information will be weighted based on our unique and flexible reputation system. The word of people who know what they’re talking about will be worth more than the word of random users who have no standing in the community. You gain reputation from mods you’ve authored, by contributing to the site, and from other users recognizing your contributions to the community.
• You can make your mod list public on the site, share it with your friends, or link to it for troubleshooting advice.
• Automated download and setup of utilities and configuration files as well as assisted mod installation (you will still need to start the mod downloads yourself).

Meet the Team

Mator - Team Leader
Hi guys. You may know me from my projects Merge Plugins and Mator Smash. I enjoy developing tools for mod authors and mod users. I’m really excited to be leading the Mod Picker team in building a powerful new platform to redefine the modding experience.
Terrorfox1234 - Public Relations
Hello everyone! I am a moderator on the Skyrim modding and Fallout modding subreddits and author of the Beginner’s Guide featured on GEMS. I am always looking for new ways to contribute towards helping the community and make modding accessible to everyone. I believe Mod Picker will accomplish this in a way that nothing has before and I am thrilled to be a part of it.
ThreeTen - Developer, Designer
Hey all, my name is Grant and I am one of the UX/UI Designers on the team! I have been modding skyrim for a few years now, with mods such as Real Shelter and NPC Visual Transfer Tool. I am incredibly excited about what Mod Picker will be able to provide for modders and mod users alike; and strive to make the mod picking process as easy as possible.
Sirius - Developer, Designer
Heyyo! My name is Adam, and I’m excited to be helping out with this awesome project that the community has wanted and needed for a long long time. I’m known online as TheSiriusAdam, but other than a slightly impressive League of Legends profile there’s not much fame to my name.
Nariya - Developer
Hi I’m Nariya, I’m currently working on the backend for the Mod Picker project. I’ve been playing Skyrim on and off since release and I’m excited to contribute to a tool that will finally streamline the modding process since I usually completely uninstall my game and mods when I’m done.
Thallassa - Designer
Hi you guys, I’m a novice designer and mod user who does my best to share everything I’ve learned over the last year and a half of modding. In my limited free time I like to drink tea, knit, and listen to metal. Once in a while I even have time to launch Skyrim!
Breems - Developer
Hi, everyone! My name is Tyler, and I'm primarily working on the desktop application(s) that accompany the Mod Picker Site. After creating ENB Organizer, I was excited to find a community-driven project I could contribute to. When I'm not doing dev work I enjoy mild gaming, playing music, and trying very hard to be lazy.


FAQ

• I’m a mod author, will this drive users away from my Nexus Mods pages?
  No, we will be driving users to your mod pages. Our goal is not to supplant you or your mod pages, our goal is help users to discover your mod and learn about how to use it in a mod list (e.g. help them with finding compatibility patches). We will not be hosting your mod files, have a comments section, or a description on our site. We will be linking directly to your Nexus Mods page from our page, driving traffic to your pages and Nexus Mods.
• Will you be hosting my mod files without permission?
  No! We will not be hosting any mod files at all! All downloads will continue to be served from the locations where you have uploaded your mod.
• Will this replace Nexus Mods/Steam Workshop/Lover’s Lab?
  No, absolutely not. We’re being very careful to not replace functionalities from these sites. We will not be hosting or redistributing any mod files.
• Will this offer similar functionality to LOOT?
  Most likely yes. One of the core services that Mod Picker provides is helping users build a stable mod list. Load order is a big part of that, and as such Mod Picker will have sorting functionality. Mator has talked with WrinklyNinja about LOOT, and the limitations are clear and well understood. It’s mostly a difference in philosophy in regards to the user experience for sorting a load order. We are aware of and deeply thankful for what LOOT has done for the modding community, and are hoping to build a new solution that can continue to serve users in their load order sorting needs.
• Will this offer similar functionality to modwat.ch?
  Yes.
• Will this offer similar functionality to STEP?
  No, this will enable the members of STEP to do what they do more efficiently, and will enable other people to do what STEP has done with minimal effort required. STEP is a guide that focuses around a specific set of recommended mods. Mod Picker is, at it’s core, a utility to make building your own mod list easier.
• Will this replace <insert other tool or website here>?
  Probably not. Our goal is not to replace existing solutions, but to augment them. Mod Picker will work with mod managers and distribution platforms to offer users the best mod list building experience possible.
• Will Mod Picker be open source?
  The core site won’t be, but many modules will be. E.g. Mod dump, and the automated installation script/application.
• What games will you support?
  From day one we will support Skyrim, because it has the largest and most established modding community. Soon after we will add support for Fallout 4, and from there we will add support for Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and (maybe) Morrowind.
• Can anyone change the info on the site, like wikipedia?
  Users with sufficient reputation can edit contributions made by other users on the site under certain circumstances.
• Won’t people abuse that?
  Abuse will not be tolerated. If the abuse is intentional the user may have privileges taken away or receive a temporary ban. Continued abuse will earn them a permanent ban. A public history on every post will also allow members of the community to revert undesirable changes, and members of the community can withdraw reputation from users they no longer trust.
• What if someone submits information that is incorrect?
  We will have a system by which you will be able to submit suggestions/corrections on user contributions. These suggestions are then vetted by reputable members of the community and if a majority agreement is reached the contribution becomes open to editing by users with sufficient reputation.
• Do mod authors have control over their mods?
  Verified mod authors are given reputation for their mods and access to control aspects of the pages associated with their mods on the site.
• How will you verify mod authors?
  We have a plan for a system that works similar to how scraping mods works where we’ll provide you with a verification key on our site, have you post it on your profile page, and then scrape your public profile page. If we find the key in a post on your profile page your account will be verified.
• What are you developing the site with?
  We’re using Ruby on Rails, AngularJS, and MySQL.
• Will you offer an API?
  Yes! We will offer a full RESTful API serving up JSON that you will be able to leverage in your applications.

Development Status
Complete

• Account pages
• Mod upload
• Index Pages
  Articles, Mods, Plugins, Mod Lists, Users, Comments, Reviews, Compatibility Notes, Load Order Notes, Install Order Notes, and Corrections
• User Settings page
• Mod page
• Edit mod page
• User page
• Mod List page
• Home page
• Help Center
• Notifications
• Reputation System

Active

• QA
• Help pages
• Moderation tools
• DevOps & Automation

Planned

• Video tutorials
• Public API Access
• Mod list setup utility
• Notification settings
• Email notifications

Various Links

• link removed due to potential spam/phishing
• Twitter
• Facebook
• YouTube Channel
• Steam Group
• Progress Report 9
• Progress Report 8
• Progress Report 7
• Progress Report 6
• Progress Report 5
• Progress Report 4
• Progress Report 3
• Progress Report 2
• Progress Report 1

[TechAngel85]

What I was trying to get across is that by using the formats and/or tools, you are agreeing to the part of the EULA which Z posted above. They own the formats and all references within. I didn't mean they owned the custom assets as I covered that already. But using those assets for the game you are agreeing to the EULA in which you are granting Bethesda the rights to "use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit". So even if the author still owns the assets, you're granting the rights to Bethesda to basically take your work and reproduce it and use it any way they deem fit. That is as close to giving up your rights to your assets that you can get. Imagine if Bethesda released a new DLC called "other lands" for Skyrim and they are basically an exact copy of Falskarr and other DLC sized mods. What can the authors do? Nothing. Even if the some of the assets in Falskarr are owned by the authors, Bethesda can come in, reproduce them, and release it for sale. It's right there in black and white that you're giving them the right to do this. With this in mind, I would question what actual "rights" the authors actually retain over the mods they produce for Bethesda games.

 

This is all leading back to whether or not the authors have rights to "opt out" of having their mods call out by name on any site, not just Mod Picker and this includes STEP. In my opinion, they do not. Listing a name is freedom of speech/press. They have no say as long as it's not harmful to the mod in question. Basically, offering the "opt out" option is the same as STEP removing mods upon request. It's simply a "courtesy", not a "right" the authors have. Now this is different when discussing distribution, but it's been well established Mod Picker will not be distributing mods itself.

 

Regardless of this intellectual debate on modder rights, Mod Picker will most likely be a great resource if it accomplishes what it's setting out to do.

[kryptopyr]

Also I'm fairly certain that converting a file to a proprietary file format does not give the owner of the file format the right over the content in the file.

 

This is absolutely correct.

 

There is a huge difference between granting Bethesda a license to use your work and giving up your rights to that work.

 

No, Bethesda could not release an EXACT copy of Falskarr.  They would be opening themselves up to a lawsuit from the mod creator.  Seriously.  This is why writers and movie studios often avoid fanfiction sites like the plague.  A writer who owns the original copyright to a book can be sued if they were to publish a fanfiction written by another person, even if it was based on their own work and uses their characters.  As has been mentioned, copyright law is one huge gray area.  Now the CK's EULA does presumably give Bethesda more rights to use mod content than a writer has over fanfiction, but in practice mods tend to fall in the same sort of legal category as fanfiction.  And there is way too much unique content in Falskarr for Bethesda to claim it all based on the CK's EULA.  It would be unprecedented for a court (at least in the United States) to rule in Bethesda's favor in a case like that and allow them to distribute an exact reproduction of Falskarr without at least compensating the mod creator in some way.

[Mator]

This is all leading back to whether or not the authors have rights to "opt out" of having their mods call out by name on any site, not just Mod Picker and this includes STEP. In my opinion, they do not. Listing a name is freedom of speech/press. They have no say as long as it's not harmful to the mod in question. Basically, offering the "opt out" option is the same as STEP removing mods upon request. It's simply a "courtesy", not a "right" the authors have. Now this is different when discussing distribution, but it's been well established Mod Picker will not be distributing mods itself.

 

Regardless of this intellectual debate on modder rights, Mod Picker will most likely be a great resource if it accomplishes what it's setting out to do.

I totally agree with you on these paragraphs.

 

I do think you should also see the links I posted in my previous post regarding Mod Author's rights though, because it is important to understand that granting Bethesda these rights does not revoke or invalidate the Mod Author's rights.  It's a purely legal issue - you basically sublicense your work to Bethesda assuming you use the CK to produce it.  That doesn't mean you lose the rights to control how individuals/entities other than Bethesda copy/distribute it.  A Mod Author's intellectual property rights remain on their work.  More than one legal entity can own rights to a work.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Mator

[z929669]

Reviewed the links in your post, and good points made to support your assertion that assets created for the proprietary game are forever copyrighted to the creator; however, all opinions are unofficial and unsubstantiated. There has yet to be any clear legal precedent one way or the other. It is pretty much consensus though that the mod author owns at least the assets that he/she uniquely created ... but Bethesda does too, so you basically give up the 'meat" of your rights unless you can control Bethesda (or the new co-owner-by-proxy).

 

I would not count on my rights as a mod author ;)

[TechAngel85]

I have read the majority of the links (the first one just takes you to the welcome page and not any specific content). I will simply agree that there is too much gray without discussing all this with Bethesda's lawyers. I'm not lawyer and hate the "jargon" used in the documents. It leaves too much open for interpretation by the layfolks. I will say that the Fallout 4 EULA has gotten a little more specific in regards to "Customized Game Materials". So perhaps Bethesda is aware of some of the confusion.

 

I agree with Z, though. You'd be hard pressed to find any substantial mod that isn't to some degree a derivative work.

[kryptopyr]

Regardless of what rights Bethesda has to a mod, how does that relate to Mod Picker, STEP, or general mod users in any way whatsoever?  Even if you want to assume that Bethesda has full and total rights over everything a mod author makes (which they don't), those rights do not, in any way, extend beyond Bethesda.  It certainly does not translate into "the mod author has no rights over their mod" or "everyone on the internet has the right to use a mod however they see fit."  I'm a bit worried because that seems to be the implication behind some of these statements.

 

 

I'm looking forward to Mod Picker.  Though I certainly see it more as a resource for mod users than mod authors, but if it cuts down on the constant stream of questions and comments I get on my mod pages by even a small percentage, then it has my approval.

Frankly, I think the Mod Picker team was probably right in choosing to respect the wishes of mod authors who want to opt out.  They did not need to do this, and it was a choice made (as far as I can tell) to appease some mod authors on Nexus who are completely against the project.  Ideally, yes, it would have been nice if there hadn't been the need to make this concession.  But their relationship with Nexus is much more important to the long-term goals of the project then any small harm done to the functionality of the site by a handful of mod authors choosing to opt out.

The best aspects of this community, such as it is, operate on mutual respect.  One of the reasons I have such high hopes for this project, and truly believe that it might achieve what it sets out to do, is because I feel like it's being run by people who do have a very high regard for all members of the community, which includes both mod users and mod authors, as well as guide authors, utility creators and other contributors.

I think there's a good chance that Mod Picker will become a go-to site for mod users to get compatibility and other first-order information about mods.  If that becomes the case, then mod authors who opt out will simply not benefit from the additional exposure and user assistance that Mod Picker could provide.  In turn, mod users won't benefit from the compatibility and shared trouble-shooting data for the small percentage of mods that have opted out.   But so what?  So there will be some mods where users will simply need to go through the exact same steps they do now in order to search out the answers to their questions.  If Mod Picker makes it easier and more convenient to troubleshoot compatibility and load-order issues for 80% of mods, isn't that a whole heck of a lot better than anything currently available?
 

[TechAngel85]

@Kryptoyr

Really a lot of this just went off topic due to our love for an intellectual debate around here (hence the maturity of our community to not go off like you see at Nexus). I will say this though, in reality a mod author has no more right to say "don't list my mod", than a large corporation has the right to tell the newspapers, "don't run that story". As long as no laws or rights are violated it's covered under freedom of speech/press laws in the country that the posting source resides. With that said, you're correct. It's so much about mutual respect in the modding community and that keeps it moving forward. Only a few tend to be on the zealous side of things and end up showing themselves as...donkeys. We all know a few...

[kryptopyr]

I will say this though, in reality a mod author has no more right to say "don't list my mod", than a large corporation has the right to tell the newspapers, "don't run that story".

Oh, definitely.  That's certainly a fair use regardless of who controls the copyright.   Mod Picker would be completely within their rights to post reviews and any information like that about any mod.  That clearly falls in the category of fair use and would never be considered copyright infringement.  It would be like Bethesda trying to tell a website that they weren't allowed to post a review of Skyrim or provide any sort of description of the game.

[z929669]

Agree that MAs have zero authority to prevent listing/describing their mod in any articular context (except where basic human rights may be concerned ... e.g., slander). MAs seem to retain rights over their original and unique work as it relates to their mod (including total functionality of the mod, if it is original/unique) ... but they have no right to monetize (which is the real power behind copyright) ... effectively, they can't really control how Bethesda chooses to use their mod though, so the true extent of their 'copyright' is largely undermined.

 

It is simple common sense and courtesy to respect the wishes of the originators of ideas/works in terms of their creations, and MP goes above and beyond the minimal requirements of courtesy to MAs ... even to the potential detriment of their own service. Nothing to complain about or be against as far as I can tell ;)

 

PS: I edited a few of my previous posts to more accurately reflect reality and to correct some of my own personal misperceptions of the Beth CK EULA (and probably that of other proprietary games/tools related to modding). If some of my words concerning MA copyright remain flat-out incorrect, do tell and explain how/why, and I will correct those as well if the argument is not purely semantic or based upon opinion :D

[Uhuru]

I wont quote Mator's PM's he mentioned, I have responded, as soon as I saw them. I was unable to come to the site last weekend, until today, when I saw the link in my message box.

He has addressed some of my concerns in those messages, and I have asked him to make them available here. It appears LO will include some form of automation, and while I never say LOOT can give a perfect LO (80%+), with Metadata edits required for the remaining sorting.

My real concern was the idea of manual LO maintainence, in the manner of the BOSS masterlist, which was unmaintainable. No indication of LO auto maintainance, appeared to be included, and relying on manual listing, seermed to be heading for the same roadblock as BOSS.

I consider that isn't the issue I feared, as it's not fully manual, LOOT requires part manual as well. that isn't a concern, as Mod Picker is giving additional giuidance, and Mator claims, he's got better Algorithms for the auto parts.

I won't take his word for that, testing as always needs doing, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt, as his automation skills are outstanding. I have past experience to tell me, if anyone can do this, it's Mator.

 

I will say here what I did in the PM's, I have no agenda other than wanting Mod Picker to be successful, My concerns were issues I saw as potential hinderances to that success, and not raised as reasons, not to make the tool/site.

I fully support the overall plan, and want it to succeed.

 

We are apparently all in favour of Open Souce (Copyleft) modding, and back when Wrye made his proposals, it was not Popular, or that is the impression, I have gotten.

mixing Closed Source and Open Source, works for profit making businesses, as they can sue in the courts to gain their, pound of flesh.

 

It fails for mods, and both the Steam Workshop and Bethesda.net are rife with stolen content, where closed source protects the thief.

Only full open source modding, truly protects mod authors, if the source must be available theft can't be hidden.

Whether the experiences of how Valve and Bethesda's systems fail genuine creators, has changed the consensus in favour of Open Source, I don't know.

 

However unless I'm missing something, no mod creators assets are included on the Mod Picker Site.

In regards the discussion over who owns the rights to the files, I think that is a red herring in this case, as Mod Picker will host no mod creators files, I've heard mention of customised compatibility patching, which suggests Mator Smash functionality and involvement.

I don't think that makes any difference, as long as the Mod Creators content is hosted anywhere, but the Mod Picker site.

I think you should refer to the links I edited into my previous post where there has been discussion regarding what rights a mod author has over their content.  I agree with you it's fairly gray in some ways, but one thing that is not gray is that a mod author owns all files they produce for a mod (including the ESP files) and can assert intellectual property/copyright over it.  That supersedes the EULA (and the EULA doesn't even attempt to revoke such rights).

 

I do agree that we should use "Copyleft" philosophies in modding, but I also see that some portion of the current community could be against that.

 

You'll be able to use any mod/plugin in your Mod List on Mod Picker regardless of whether or not we have an entry for it on Mod Picker.  Custom entries will not have the benefits of compatibility, install order, load order, or conflict information, however.

This is something, it goes some way to protect the list creators, but it still fails to protect the list creators/maintainers rights as the author of the list. They still have no right to use anything but unsupported custom entries.

 

"Custom entries will not have the benefits of compatibility, install order, load order, or conflict information."

Why?

Does this involve any mod creators asset, regardless of whether they or Bethesda Softworks own the rights, i'm struggling to see how this is relevant at all.

If those assets are required to access the functionality, of these functions, they files exist on the list users own hardrive, and they have the right to use any tools available to determine compatibility, install order, load order, or conflict information.

 

What author rights would be violated, by using the files downloaded from the host site?

 

The only rights I can see being violated is the list creators, am I missing something?

I see no "grey" areas here, the user has the mods according to the rules of the host site, where the mod authors rights are respected and upheld, and at no time are thier files hosted on the Mod Picker site.

I may have missed something, but it seems clear and unequivical to me, or am I wrong?

[Thallassa]

Mod Picker Progress Report #6 has been posted: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/4n28pc/skyrim_mod_picker_progress_report_6/
 

[Mator]

The beta has started!

If you'd like to have access please email modpicker@gmail.com.


Cheers,
- Mator

[TechAngel85]

Congrats on the beta!

[Mator]

We've started a public beta.  Anyone can now sign up for and use the site.

link removed due to potential spam/phishing

[darkside]

We've started a public beta.  Anyone can now sign up for and use the site.

 

https://www.modpicker.com

Registered. Is there a way for users to share conflict resolution esp with other users following their mod list?

Edited November 12, 2016 by darkside