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Apparently, these are accessible via the program itself? I have not checked, but was told as much. Once Tannin chimes in regarding his opinion of these and all MO videos, we can construct an ideal presentation here or on the wiki and develop an 'official' format if one is desirable.

Thanks everyone. We are glad you like the community and that you all participate to make it work. STEP is the summation of its parts, which all are pretty good if you ask me ;) @skaryzgik Discordian seems like Douglas Adams Also, Packs are our first attempt to create a guide template for our users so that anybody can create and share a STEP-based guide. It is pretty loose, so there are few restrictions. Our goal is to get the community involved in creating these Pack guides however they choose. The best ones will be referenced by the STEP Guide starting with STEP 2.3.0 ... IF there are any that are polished enough. We don't have any 'rules', as we don't want to hamper creativity; however, the STEP Guide will only be connected to Packs that 'work' with STEP:Core. Our STEP:Extended official Pack will be one possible example of an articulate-able Pack guide. There are a couple out there now that are complete enough to be linked to the main guide (not saying which ones yet, as I have not installed any or them personally ... too much other stuff to do)

In my XP, using AMD-side AF gives a 2-4 FPS gain over using it ENB side (using one or the other, not both). Whether this is a consistent user XP, I don't know. Do us a favor and try it yourself and report back your findings. Just load up a frame-intensive save under both conditions and report your FPS. I suggest looking South over the bay towards the marshes outside of Solitude main gate area or likewise. Just load up the save and wait about 60 seconds. Then record your FPS under both conditions (all eslse being equal). You might try saves in two other areas as well. Other people might recommend running around or doing some other sort of benchmark, but that will only add potential noise. Just load the save, and don't touch the mouse as a fast and simple first measure. Then do whatever second measures you like.

UNP uses the vanilla UV map, so UNP textures should work on vanilla meshes. (I assume that is why UNP-compliant Mature Skin works) MS also works with FemFeet (see screens above)

Yeah, I suppose Mature Skin does have eye and lip 'makeup'. But I guess I am referring to the makeup 'base' as real makeup. The powder or skin-colored base makeup. This is what most women I know refer to as 'makeup'. Eyeliner and lipstick are too, but mature skin just has 'darker' eyes and lips from my biased perspective :P Mature Skin just has less of a made-up look. I think it is a bit more ragged in a believable way with much less shine or 'glow'. Different lighting could be tested, but we already have examples on this thread of SG in sunlight, and I am confident that mature skin will look even better in sunlight than WoS, SG and WSCO based on that. RE WSCO versus XCE as a base: I say this updated XCE compilation, since it includes all of the beast race textures we are using as sell as the vampires (but using a piecemeal approach may be best, depending) Here is the recipe to get the Mature Skin variant I am showing above (All mods should be installed just before Natrual Eyes in Sec H): [*]Install STEP:Core [*]Remove XCE bundled mod we are currently recommending [*]High Resolution Scars [*]XCE - Scarface [*]FemFeet (we only need the meshes) [*]Mature Skin (consider using Alternativ body and face textures UNP) [*]UNP Textures [*]UNP Normals (we do not need femalebody_1_msn.dds) [*]Diverse Muscle Tones [*]We only need toned4_1_msn.dds from Diverse Muscle Tones 5-1a High Vanilla ... rename to femalebody_1_msn.dds, or ... [*]... install DMT, which is not that simple really Results may vary depending upon body presets used. I use a Nord female above with a weight of 0.50 and my own custom look presets. It would be great if others could test the look for other races, as I am not sure how this all looks on anything but the Nord female. I want to better understand the limitations of these changes and interactions with other race assets and even NPCs. ... let the real testing begin.

I am for deciding upon a total solution for the guide. Users will do as they want regardless, and those that don't want to think will appreciate that the choice has been made for them. RE the textures in the compare. I think that XCE has some indisputable inclusions (scars and warpaint). I don't thin that WSCO offers anything that we don't already have when we use XCE, FemFeet, STEP hair mods, and a texture replacer. This leaves WoS and Mature Skin. I do really like Wos, but it is just not very realistic. Mature skin does not have any makeup. It makes the skin look weathered and chilled. This includes the face. I imagine that people in Skyrim get a lot of icy wind in the face and lots of reflected sun from the snow. That and the fair skin of white people in cold climates (i.e., they don't really get a 'tan') all lends to Mature Skin's look. Rosy, cold cheeks and weathered skin and a body with blemishes, not just dirt. MS wins for me in the department of realism, but WoS is more 'beautiful'. Thus. MS wins for me. I will post my exact recipe for this tomorrow (today) so that you all can test it in your own game. I still want to try out alt3rn1ty's UNP mod just for kicks. It is neatly packaged and he offers some sound advice. I will post the results of the male body compares tomorrow or the day after once I get all the screens done.

... and I am finally done with my meticulous initial catalog of options. The following are all of the different vanilla body skins that I could find that actually work. The screens were taken with all being equal but for the body textures. I will present compares of other attributes once we determine what skins are most realistic. Compare Options All compares effectively use the STEP:Core female body as a base. Vanilla underwear was used in the WSCO screens in order to prevent bias for or against that mod (WSCO is using AOF hair only I think though ... I was too lazy to go back and change change that). All is equal in these mods but for the textures (except the body normal maps, which are from DMT mod ... either SG vanilla or UNP vanilla version, depending on textures used. DMT normals actually make vanilla textures compatible with FemFeet). The screens are of three poses under consistent lighting ... all is equal but for the textures. XCE High Resolution ScarsNatural EyesFemFeetDiverse Muscle Tones (The mid muscular version [4 or 6, I think] is being used in all of these, since my character weight is at 0.50)Nausicaa - Photo Studio (This is the best screenshot mod I have seen. It is the only one that provides good quality lighting options and backgrounds). Order within each set: 1. vanilla > 2. XCE > 3. XCE clean skin > 4. WSCO (occidental) > 5. Mature Skin > 6. Women of Skyrim > 7. SG Renewal (there are 3 rows of images, so increase the width of your browser window to accommodate or just look at the image names to decipher) My Assessment All but Vanilla and XCE have very subtle wrist seams, but all are acceptable, IMOXCE is just too gray under most indoor or overcast lighting. This really comes out hereMature Skin, WSCO, and SG Renewal all have a more natural skin toneWSCO is too reflective and shiny, particularly on the face (with the 'beauty' forehead glow action) ... too much makeup in general on the face.WoS looks really good, IMO, but has a bit too much of that beauty glow to the skin ... a bit too porcelain and perfect (but nice nonetheless). Face looks good (zero makeup option being used here)SG Renewal also uses too much makeup and makes her look too much like a doll face. Skin is waaay too shiny for this setting. Imagine what she'd look like in the sun.Vanilla is obviously too bronzed and gritty.Mature Skin is the clear winner for me, and this woman looks pretty realistic if not just a tad too pretty for the Dragonborn (but that is just the vanilla preset I used :P )

FYI (staff) See this post for info on using the new 'merged' SMW mod attribute.

@phryxo As far as I have learned, the armor meshes are built effectively as body replacers that must match to the existing head and hand meshes. Therefore, an UNP armor mesh will have forearm and neckline of the UNP body, and any of the skimpy armors will also containmeshes to the UNP body. These 'armor meshes have UV maps to both the body as well as the armor textures. Same goes for CBBE and other body types. it just so happens that the UNP body has vanilla UV mappings, so UNP textures should usually work well with vanilla bodies. @DYEMB The vanilla body is good, but the mesh kinda sucks. It has too few polygons and you get jagged blocks sticking out on the hip/thigh area as well as calf and upper arm areas (and other places). I wish Brumbek (or someone) would improve the vanilla body meshes. I would if I knew how.

OK, got it ... I am still slowly evaluating male and female faces/bodies using many different options from all mod contenders. This will take some time yet.

I see you have grown from prince into a king now? We'll need to be doubly respectful around here then :P ... makes sense that the issue is the mist 'mesh' ... I guess I never thought of mist as needing a mesh O_o

OK, I am merging them, but I thought that SRB had recommended against that. Wanted to verify.

Yeah, I am not satisfied with any of these three mods 100%, so I want to mix and match to create something more uniform and comprehensive for our purposes. Regarding WSCO facegeom: Look under meshes/actor I think. Under facegeon are two *.esm folders with meshes inside. I am no plugin expert, but I assumed that these are related to the masters or at least alterations to vanilla assets. The problem I have with this mod and others in this category is the lack of explanation and changes. I also agree that the vanilla male meshes and textures are better in some ways. There are bad feet and seams at the wrists tough in your previous screens. I am still focusing on females, but will slowly progress and update.

Forget the plugins for now and look inside the archives at the assets. WSCO vanilla does not contain Better Males ... you need the CBBE or UNP versions for that. Do a folder compare of Better Males against the male portions of WSCO vanilla. Still would need Better Males with WSCO vanilla. The facegeom data is unique to WSCO, and I am assuming that these meshes were alterations that are referenced by one or more of the plugins. There are 73 files that exist in Better Males that do not exist in WSCO vanilla. The WSCO compilation is haphazard, IMO, and comes with more baggage. I am liking it less and less as a whole, but certain parts may be worth looking at independently. Same goes for XCE and even Better Males. We ought to be looking at the mods that are packaged into these rather than these pre-built compilations. Why not just make a STEP compilation as an alternative to XCE, WSCO and Better Males? We can find what we like and get the permissions to compile the ideal for our users and anyone else that is interested.

I am actually wanting to look at the diffs between the faces and the bodies of Better Males. XCE also covers male faces, so it would be good to see what options look best. We are currently deferring to Neo's recommendations, but we should verify.

I think the mod installation notes need updating. Also, what about Bashed Patch instructions? I recall that merging stats is not recommended?

Yes indeed. DMT is a highly complex install, but it could be vastly simplified with instructions for a specific install. The mod is currently configured with many options and each is described for flexibility. In STEP, we would recommend one option. Also, there are several merged plugins, and it looks like the mod really only would install four when all said and done (if we wanted the variation). Instructions for DMT (STEP:Core 2.2.9 testing) [*]Download & Install (be certain Cutting Room Floor is installed!) [*]Diverse Muscle Tones 5-1f Core (mod behavior)00 Core (variation of body musculature by race only)03 Merged NPCs USKP-CRF (variation of body musculature by race AND NPC body weight, both males and females)35 Dawnguard Dragonborn UDBP (DLC support)50 Player Muscles Full Extended OR any of the '50' static options (player character options varying by PC weight OR static as chosen)[*]Diverse Muscle Tones 5-1a Normal Vanilla (variable female msn)10 Vanilla SG Default[*]Diverse Muscle Tones 5-1 Normal Males (variable male msn)15 Sundracon (or 15 Favoured Soul if using that version of Better Males) Just activate the plugins and experiment with various races, body types, etc.

I am seeing wrist seams in the vanilla versions of the first image set, but not in the BM or WSCO versions. We should also point out that WSCO is far more limited with regard to mesh improvements, facedata variation and even the malebody msn. WSCO is not a replacement for Better Males (only the CBBE or UNP + BM versions provide BM files). Furthermore, I am finding more and more random things being added via plugins, even some custom facegen facegeom meshes and the like. WSCO is looking more like a compilation of existing mods with some user-specific customizations, and I am not liking it for STEP. Therefore, we should keep Better Males and IMO, reconsider WSCO for inclusion into STEP.

This is the fact of vanilla lighting: In many interior or overcast lighting situations, XCE will look gray and drab and dirty and SG will look normal, but in bright light, XCE will look more normal and SG will look too radiant. I prefer the details and quality of XCE look, but I prefer the color of SG look. It is tough. I would be in favor of using XCE with a very slight color change though. I am looking for 'imperfect' face and body textures for vanilla. It is very slim pickings (lots of stuff for UNP/CBBE but not vanilla), so I am thinking of using XCE textures (or SG) as source and altering some of the color and/or specularity ... depends on which I use as a source.

OK, I will need to double check the file I have for BHB - XCE in MO. I may have overwritten with Caliente's TextureBlend app during my testing (that app uses CBBE Slim msn musculature to blend ... I wanted to experiment, and I think I must have blended CBBE muscular msn from Fitness Training mod into BHB - XCE :facepalm: ). Will advise. EDIT: No, the issue is with the msn, not the color maps. WSCO does use SG diffuse I think (and those normals show BHB - XCE over WSCO Occidental vanilla) Regardless, the BHB normals are not as good as the DMT normals IIRC. Take the heaviest of the DMT normals for the vanilla body (tone6 I think) and rename to femalebody_1_msn.dds and see for yourself. The other variable tones are lighter, and you can try those as well. One issue I still have with the vanilla body is that the panty mesh does not meet perfectly with the upper right thigh mesh of the rear right side. I don't think any fix exists, but I will post a screen to illustrate when I get home. I think we should determine if we will continue using XCE or go with WSCO. They both essentially alter the same things, and the latter appears to have better-optimized body textures and also incorporates SG-type skin textures (XCE skin is too gray and dirty IMO). XCE scars and face decals are still viable though, but there is significant overlap between these two. If we do use XCE stuff, then we might consider the piecemeal Xenius mods, which do not conflict. Where there is conflict, I think WSCO wins with regard to aesthetics (but I have not done a detailed compare yet).

@kryptopyr I did not realize that Pumping Iron worked via the size slider. I will need to verify how this works with the vanilla body though. It may be that breasts for the vanilla body are not slider compatible? @Tech :facepalm: You failed to read and interpret problem 2 above BHB - XCE is not compatible with the vanilla body or even XCE because of this. Look at the screens. BHB - XCE is compatible with the Phigit feet but not the vanilla body. BHB - vanilla is compatible with the vanilla body but not Phigit's feet. Get it?

Thanks all for the valuable info regarding the WSCO plugins. I will venture to guess that we could disregard all of them for STEP and get all of this mod's benefits. On another note, I have found some significant barriers in using this mod and XCE with many of the texture replacers out there, and it seems to be related to Phygit's improved feet meshes, which cause a nasty gap when used with any femalebody_1_msn.dds (or probably and body textures) other than those based on Phygit's UV maps (e.g., XCE & WSCO) ... read Phygit's description for details ... the following screen shows how Sporty Sexy Map looks, and this is how most female vanilla body textures look that I have found, including BHB - vanilla : Anyway. Phygit's meshes are absolutely necessary, and they are bundled with both XCE and WSCO. Likewise, each of those mods provide textures that must be based on Phygit's altered body UV maps. [*]Problem 1: XCE body textures are pretty 'dirty', which is most likely intentional but undesireable, IMHO. (see first versus second compares in these sets) [*]Problem 2: WSCO body normal is not reminiscent of a strong, Dragonborn female, and the only one that seems to Phygit-feet-compatible is the BHB - XCE compatible version, which I have come to believe is really meant for the CBBE body and not vanilla (CBBE is compatible with Phygit's feet mesh, and the following issues appear when using a CBBE msn on a vanilla body) EDIT: This 'issue' following is most likely a problem on my side and is explained in my post below ... BHB - XCE is fine, and I was unwittingly using a version that I blended with CBBE in the following screens: These problems are resolved by using a mod called "Diverse Muscle Tone" (DMT), which has the added functionality of allowing muscle variation by race and in varying degrees and randomly by NPC, and finally based on player character weight and possibly other factors. Used alongside Gopher's Pumping Iron mod, this makes for some very interesting and immersive variation that I think would be perfect for STEP:Extended. We just need to verify some additional plugin behaviors, gameplay ramifications and implementation methodology. I have a comment on the DMT topic thread regarding simplification and would appreciate it if others could look at these three mods together. I have yet to try Gopher's mod, but the other two together look fantastic. Following is a screen of the max muscle body msn that I manually added to WSCO occidental vanilla ... the second includes Improved Vanilla Underwear and Female Idle Animation Swap, which I think looks more realistic for our character, but maybe not for NPCs ... not sure if that idle gets used everywhere though:

Turning Serana into an Imperial does not have any corroboration in my reading on the subject of her origins. I don't understand the reasoning, and if her race is changed, so should her entire family's be. This alone invalidates the plugin, IMO.

Vanilla options do look good. Need someone to check the plugins and what exactly they are doing. I read on the discussion page that there may be problems forwarding USKP changes and mounted combat bugs. There may also be some NPC issues introduced by one or more of the plugins. Also, this may obviate Better Males, so I think we should compare male changes from this mod with that mod

Good find. I'll check this one out first