PC Build (Desktop Upgrade)

[Guest]

Hello, hopefully I've placed this within the right forum. I'm currently running STEP Extended with a handful of other mods in Mod Organizer. Using the Skyrim Performance Monitor I've noticed that in Whiterun (running "A New Whiterun" from Nexus) my VRAM is generally at about 90-100% and my CPU usage is anywhere from 50-80%, with expected FPS drops into the low 20's. My current desktop build is as follows:

 

Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz

16Gb DDR3 RAM

nVidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti

Windows 8.1

 

I was thinking of purchasing the ASUS Strix GTX 970, but was cautious after hearing about how this particular card line handles once it gets past 3.5Gb's of VRAM. Do any of you have it and can give your opinions of it? I was thinking if I can limit or reduce the texture sizes on some of my mods I should be okay as long as it stays under that amount of VRAM. Also, I had debated on upgrading to an i7 processor but assume that it would not really see that much of a benefit for the price? ($400+ including a motherboard with the new chipset)

 

Thanks,

[Shadriss]

Holy Crap, Kess... $400? I didn't pay that much for MY i7/MB three years ago. Which one are you looking at?

 

I checked the numbers for you on the last couple times I loaded in to the game, as I promised, and the highest GPU load I saw was 3100MB. Maybe slightly higher, but not much. Skyrim, anyway, won't cause you any issues, but anything relatively new very well might... that's really my big nay-say against the 970 based on what you've told me. Heavens, it may be a better option to get a slightly older card (700 or 800 series) as well as updating the CPU, and it should handle Skyrim well enough at that point.

 

And yes, I could have just talked right to you, but NOW, I get to be ridiculed by others for my obvious ignorance, and that's so much more fun!

[Guest]

Holy Crap, Kess... $400? I didn't pay that much for MY i7/MB three years ago. Which one are you looking at?

The i7 4790, which is around $300. Motherboard prices vary of course depending on size, features, etc.

 

Ridiculed by others? Nonsense, I just want some additional feedback from the community. Especially if anyone has had the 970 and had serious/noticeable problems with it.

[TechAngel85]

Don't skimp on the motherboard. If this is strictly for gaming, you don't need more than 4 cores so a current generation i5 is all you need.

 

[Guest]

Any specific reasons as to spending more on a motherboard vs a cheaper one?

 

I'm not sure how much of a benefit I'd see going from a 3rd generation i5 to 4th gen. Lots of things I need to consider for another PC build.

[TechAngel85]

Yes...you basically get what you pay for. You want a quality motherboard from a reputable manufacturer that can handle components at least one step up from what you plan on putting in it. If your motherboard isn't of good quality your entire system can suffer and you'll be in endless troubleshooting trying to figure out why you're not getting the performance that you expected. You'll eventually figure out it's your motherboard holding your system back. ASUS is currently my top recommendation. I'm not saying go and spend $300 on a board. There comes a point where you'll be simply paying for extra features that you'll never use. For example I have the Asus Z87 Plus. It's a good quality board that has all the bells and whistles that I need, but it didn't break the bank either. You can get the Pro version for around $125 right now. This board isn't the latest generation (Z97), but it'll do anything you need it to do. If you wanted the latest generation, it'll cost anywhere from $25 to $60 more. Of course this is all for ASUS. There are other brands that have quality options such as Gigabyte and MSI.

 

Think of the motherboard as the frame of a car. With a sub-par frame, you'll be limited with the power that the engine can output before things start becoming unstable. With a quality frame to build upon, the sky is the limit...you could turbo charge your engine, put in an aftermarket transmission to get better track times, etc etc.

[Shadriss]

All true, Tech... but in this case, we also have to look at bang-for-the-buck. Which is he really going to get more from given a relatively constrained budget? He has an i5 as is, and per your first post, that should suffice, so a MB/Chip doesn't seem to me to be the path forward. To further your analogy, if the frame is already sound, you don't buy a new one if the aftermarket transmission fits and can get you the power you want for a similar price.

 

Also, just to have fun at your expence, I would point out that the future proofing you suggest wouldn't work to hot where MBs are concerned - the MB itself, sure, but not for the chip that would go on it, since they change socket types all the time. So yeah - you can't future proof against what they haven't invented yet. :)

[Guest]

I'm not saying go and spend $300 on a board. There comes a point where you'll be simply paying for extra features that you'll never use.

Right, that's along the price-line I thought you were referring to when you said don't skimp on a motherboard.  Generally, on my past two computer builds, I've gone in the $125-150 range for a decent one, but I always figured as you said, anything more than that are features that I won't be using at all. After watching the video that you linked me to, I'm not sure that I'd really get any benefit at all from a newer i5 4th gen chip, I'm better off saving the money and investing it in a decent graphics card, probably the Geforce GTX 980 which is a much better card. That or a much larger SSD than my 120GB, perhaps a ~500Gb one that I can actually put Skyrim/STEP Extended mods on.

[TechAngel85]

Never read that there was a $400 budget. If that is the case, keep the motherboard and CPU. Upgrade the GPU and then the next step would be an SSD.

 

As for future proofing, you are right. That is a money making scheme by the CPU manufacturers. The current generation is socket 1150. The next generation is 1151...one pin difference. WTF! That's a money scheme if I've ever seen one!

[Octopuss]

There's nothing wrong with that PC. Just change graphic card and you're fine.

[Shadriss]

...The current generation is socket 1150. The next generation is 1151...one pin difference. WTF! ...

This has got to be the best MB Tech Post I have ever read.

[Greg]

I have to agree with TechAngel on this one. Do not skimp on the motherboard, power supply, or CPU cooling. If you want a quick comparison, open the motherboard link TechAngel included for the Pro version and this one for the MSI Z97 PC Mate so you can compare the two.

 

See the blue thing between the two PCIe slots on the MSI motherboard? That's the itty bitty heatsink on the Z97 chipset. Look at the same place on the ASUS motherboard. That's a much larger heatsink on the Z87 chipset and it has better thermal properties to dissipate more heat. You can see a close-up picture of the Z87 heatsink. Also note that the ASUS motherboard has two additional large heatsinks on the support components around the CPU.

 

See all the little round things around the processor socket and other places on the motherboard? These are high-quality solid capacitors on the ASUS motherboard that last years without breaking down. The MSI motherboard also has solid capacitors, which is a good thing. Compare this with best shot of a Supermicro motherboard I can find. You might have to squint, but the black cans with the silver tops are cheap off-the-shelf electrolytic capacitors that leak yucky goo and have been known to spark and explode.

 

There are a hundred other factors that differentiate a quality motherboard from a not-so-much, but hopefully this is enough to point you in the right direction.

 

For the record, I am in no way saying the MSI motherboard is bad... but it's not quite the same quality as the ASUS motherboard.

[Guest]

There's nothing wrong with that PC. Just change graphic card and you're fine.

After what I've researched that looks like the best thing to upgrade at the moment. I'll probably go either with the GTX 970 or 980.

 

I have to agree with TechAngel on this one. Do not skimp on the motherboard, power supply, or CPU cooling. If you want a quick comparison, open the motherboard link TechAngel included for the Pro version and this one for the MSI Z97 PC Mate so you can compare the two.

 

See the blue thing between the two PCIe slots on the MSI motherboard? That's the itty bitty heatsink on the Z97 chipset. Look at the same place on the ASUS motherboard. That's a much larger heatsink on the Z87 chipset and it has better thermal properties to dissipate more heat. You can see a close-up picture of the Z87 heatsink. Also note that the ASUS motherboard has two additional large heatsinks on the support components around the CPU.

 

See all the little round things around the processor socket and other places on the motherboard? These are high-quality solid capacitors on the ASUS motherboard that last years without breaking down.

Thanks for pointing out a few of the differences between these motherboards. For some reason I've never paid much attention to the components on the board other than the slots that I needed. I've never gotten a dirt cheap one, but this is definitely something I'll keep in mind for my next major build.

[dreadflopp]

I'll have to agree with octopuss, you'll probably be fine with just upgrading your GPU. I'm going to try to find the bottleneck in my system which of course will look different in different games. I have an older CPU than you, sandy bridge i5 2500k, which I suspect still handles most games fine. I think a good way to find the bottleneck will be trying different type of games like civilisation, GTA and a more closed quarter first person shooter and measure your fps. See if you get better fps by lowering the graphics settings. If you do, the GPU should the bottleneck (from what I've read). A disappointing scenario can of course be that you find that your GPU is bottlenecking the system, you upgrade to the latest and greatest only to find that the system is now bottlenecked by the CPU.

 

I'm overclocking my CPU with great success and since you have an unlocked CPU I suspect you do to. If you don't, a good PC case and CPU cooler might be a better investment since it allows overclocking. If you have a good motherboard you probably have built in overclocking presets.

 

Edit: another thing, directx 12 in windows 10 is expected to lower the CPU load

Edited April 30, 2015 by dreadflopp

[Shadriss]

...I'm overclocking my CPU with great success and since you have an unlocked CPU I suspect you do to. If you don't, a good PC case and CPU cooler might be a better investment since it allows overclocking. If you have a good motherboard you probably have built in overclocking presets.

 

Edit: another thing, directx 12 in windows 10 is expected to lower the CPU load

I don't hold with overclocking on general principle. Yes, I know it can be done successfully, but as all it takes is a single mistake in setting it up to fry a chip, I simply won't do it. I've lost hardware to tweak attempts before - I'm not doing it with a CPU or GPU, even if there are pre built settings for it. They may well work - and then again, they may well not. It's not like products ship with bugs or anything, right?

 

As for DX12, that's all well and good... if the software USES it. Otherwise, it's still limited in the programming calls it can make. Hence, the reason that Skyrim, DX9, is still so limited despite our ability to work around a lot of things.