Help Keith build his first "little" gaming box

[keithinhanoi]

Oh great & wise custom-built-gaming-PC-gurus, I come to you asking for some help.
 
I know that last month Razorsedge877 asked for help with his first custom build PC, but I've got a somewhat different set of "needs" to work with, and since I am not a PC-overclocking-tech-head, I'm a little behind the times on the latest and greatest.
 
Keep in mind that although yes I have an iMac, historically speaking I've owned Mac towers or desktops that I've opened up and kitted out in one way or another. This is even true with my current iMac - I've had the thing open 4 times to swap out the original single HDD configuration for my current 2 SSD setup.
 
Despite my iMac being 4 years old already, I still have no intention of giving it up yet, especially with it's brilliant, beautiful, 1440p 27" display, and a still very capable quad-core i7 870, which is snappy when paired with the SSD system and 32GB of RAM I've put in.
 
But then, on the other hand, my iMac has a god-awful ATI HD58xx MOBILTY card. It's fine for video / photo editing, and pre-2010 games, but I've get a backlog of Steam sale purchases which I've not tried yet perhaps due to my fear of how much graphical glory I would be missing.
 
I'm not interested in buying yet another newer iMac which would be awesomely equipped in every regard except the GPU, so I'm finally going to get my very first dedicated Windows box.
 
I'm trying to kill several birds with this "stone", so here's a list of what I hope to be able to do:

• Boot Win 7 (and maybe SteamOS) on a 240GB Samsung 840 SSD ("donated" from my iMac), connected via SATA III (6Gb/s)
• Connect it via HDMI to my 40" living room 1080p LCD TV
• Connect it to my (8 year old) living room 5.1 surround amp via S/PDIF optical
• Connect it via DisplayPort to my iMac using a special feature called Target Display Mode.
• Connect it to my D-Link router via Gigabit ethernet
• Replace my Buffalo NAS by housing large HDD storage (1 drive or 2 as RAID 1) accessible by my iMac & Macbook
• Fit the custom build into as small a case as possible.

 

So, basically, I want to create a HTPC / gaming machine / server all in one "small" box.
 
I've set my theoretical budget limit, not including the HDDs/SSD, keyboard/mouse, to $900 (USD - I am buying this all during an upcoming trip next month.)
 

EDIT:

 

Here's what I've already purchased:

 
Video - EVGA GeForce GTX760 FTW 4GB SC with ACX Cooler

• 1085 Mhz Base / 1150 Mhz Boost clock | 1152 CUDA Cores
• FTW = "for the win" model, so it has EVGA's "double" BIOS
• $295 ($285 with $10 rebate & FREE Watch Dogs download) from NewEgg.com

Notes:

Because I want to be able to enjoy a modded Skyrim and other games to their fullest, I've chosen a "mid-range" enthusiast 4GB GPU, which should serve me well for a good 3-4 years, I hope.
 
This card can be OC'ed, which I plan to try if I can keep the temperatures low enough that the clock doesn't get auto-throttled. If in the end I can't OC it, I don't expect to be too sad, honestly.
 
It's very important to note with my need to fit things into a small case is that this card is 9.5" (241.3 mm) long and is a double-PCI slot width card.
 

Also EVGA's specs states a minimum requirement of a 500W PSU with a minimum of 30A on the +12 volt rail.

 
CPU - Intel Core i5-4590 Quad-Core 3.4 GHz

• $188 (sale price) at Fry's.com

Notes:

Although this seems like a somewhat overpowered CPU for a gaming / HTPC box, I will no longer have Windows installed on my iMac, and I land up doing some work / projects in Windows, and don't want to be slowed down in any way. Also any modding-related image editing / file processing I will do will be in Windows, and I'm pretty sure my iMac's i7 contributes a lot to just how fast things are with these kinds of activities.

 

At first I though about getting the i5-4670K, but then realized with my budget that I could save money by buying a CPU without overclocking capabilities. The i5-4590 was just released in May/June 2014, and it's clock speeds a just a little slower than the 4670. Since it is otherwise the same, I grabbed it when I saw a good price.

 
 

And here are the components I am still considering, but haven't made a final decision:

 

Motherboard - ASUS H97I-PLUS LGA 1150 Mini ITX

• 1072 Mhz Base clock speed / 1152 CUDA Cores
• $111 on Amazon

Notes:

 

For the price, this mobo seems to have quite a few "bells & whistles", considering its size: Mini ITX.
 
I've decided to go with the Mini ITX form factor so that I use a much smaller case (see further down for my choice). I understand that this means I only get one PCIe slot, and just two RAM slots, but I don't see a need for more than the single GPU (no multi-monitor or 3D setup for me), and 16GB (2 x 8GB) of RAM will be plenty.
 
It offers UEFI, but then I'm not terribly familiar with that (my iMac uses a special inaccessible EFI to boot Windows). Also, it fits my needs with 4 SATA 6Gb/s ports, PCIe 3.0 x16 for the GPU, plenty of USB 3/2 ports (up to 6/6), DDR3 1600 support, Intel Gigabit NIC, and the S/PDIF optical port.
 
Unfortunately, I haven't read up too much on this board, so I'm not 100% certain on this choice. I see Gigabyte and EGVA Z87 Mini ITX boards for $140 / $160, though - but I'm not sure what I get for that additional $40-60.

 
Case - Silverstone SUGO SG05-LITE - Mini-ITX Case

• 8.74 x 6.9 x 10.86 inch (222 x 176 x 276 mm) / 5 lbs (2.3 kg)
• includes front 1200 rpm 120 mm positive pressure fan (removable)
• Supports: up to 254 mm long GPU, SFX PSU, 120mm radiator
• Can only fit one 2.5" drive & one 3.5" drive
• $50 ($40 with -$10 rebate on Amazon)

Notes:

I originally chose the Coolermaster Elite 130, but then realized it was too big for the place in my living room A/V furniture. So I looked around, and found this Silverstone to be the next best choice, when considering price / convenience / durability. The main problem is that it will only accomodate one 2.5" drive and one 3.5" drive, though it might be possible to hack in a second 3.5" drive to get the RAID 1 I'm thinking of doing. Otherwise, I'll have to consider a mobo with an eSATA port on the back panel to hook up a drive for quick backups.

 

Another case I am giving serious consideration to is the Cubitek Mini Cube, which is within my space limitations at 7.87 x 12.59 x 11.76 inches. It's a pretty great little case because it can hold numerous drives (3 @ 3.5", 5 @ 2.5") and can house a full sized PSU (you can read a review of the Mini Cube here). However, it's hard to find in the USA, so it's $50 more than the Silverstone at $100 from the only US vendor I can find who sells it. Also, with it, my GTX 760's fans would be pulling air off the top of the PSU - not sure how well that would work.

 
....and that's all I've come up with so far!
 

By my calculations, I've either got $300 or $350 remaining in my budget depending on the case for the other main components, which include:

• Power Supply
  ​Originally, I had chosen a Silverstone 450w SFX PSU, but I'm now searching for a 550w SFX unit - which is proving to be difficult. Silverstone announced a 600w SFX unit back in March, but no release date has been set yet. I see an Athena 550w unit, but the 12v rail is only 24A - not enough for the GTX 670.
   
• RAM
  ​I only know I want 2 x 8GB, and it needs to be rated at 1600 Mhz or higher. I've read that if XMP (Intel Extreme Memory Profile) mode is turned on, then the RAM will only run at 1600 Mhz, but is something I'm again not familiar with, so any advice here would be greatly appreciated.
   
• ​cooling components
  ​On this, I have absolutely no idea what to do, and I only know that my choices are reduced because of the limited space from my choice of mini ITX mobo and case.
   
• anything else?
  ​If there's anything else I've forgotten (besides keyboard / mouse / HDDs / SSD, because I can choose those note problem,) I'd love to know!

I am hoping to start ordering things this week, because many of the rebate offers expire soon, and I'll be visiting the US in July, so everything will have arrived in time for me to collect it all.

 

Well, if you've read this far, then it means maybe you might have some words of wisdom for me - so thanks in advance!

Edited June 19, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[CJ2311]

Honestly, I would actually suggest posting this on /r/buildapc rather than here on STEP. You are more likely to get constructive advice there, since the people on that subreddit basically do that all day.

[Aiyen]

I personally think we got a good track record for being helpful in the PC construction department here on the forums... not as many fervert believers here that always try to make you pick A over B. And in general sound advice from people all around. 

 

 

As for the build... that PSU looks just too small to handle that rig... combining that CPU with that GPU and assuming they both run at peak .. while you add in a few HDD´s or SSD´s then the math does not add up in my head. Fairly certain that the GPU on that model is not THAT energy efficient. 

Even if it can fit inside then you would be running at the lower egde of the efficiency curve which means you pay a higher price for something that a larger silver certified one at its peak efficiency could do. 

 

As I recall then Gold certified ones have a peak at 92% efficiency (at about half usage of the total, or a little over half) and then depending on model and usage drop by up to 5%. 

 

 

As for cooling then it entirely depends on where you live and how you plan to have the PC placed relative to everything else. Since you are on a budget and cutting it close then air is most likely the only solution. Intel have really decent stock coolers on their chips most of the time, and the GPU should come with a very decent one. Assuming you got a decent case as well then I got nothing else to add. 

[Nearox]

Agree with Aiyen that the PSU is bordering on the edge. The last thing you want to save any money on is your PSU. I'd use this tool and get a PSU that has 100 more raw MW (assumin at least 80-plus bronze) than the minimum requirement. Also PSUs tend to have 5 or more years of warranty and if you buy a proper one it can last you 10 years before it starts to degrade. Personally I have had a 850mw bronze standard PSU for 4 years now. It can run almost any kind of dual-GPU setup and can handle any kind of overclocking if you have a single GPU. 

[TechAngel85]

The video card choice is solid. I actually have that one which I put in my build back in Feb/Mar. I really wanted the GTX 770 because it does perform noticeably better on the benchmarks than the 760; however, budget kept me from getting it. Since playing with the 760, I couldn't be happier and glad I didn't spend the extra money on the 770. I will typically open a game and setup the graphics to what I think would be the best balance between performance and quality. Then I open up GeForce Experience to see what it says the optimal settings are and 9/10 times it tells me I can turn the graphics up even more...so I do! Couldn't be happier with this card! Rock solid in all the games I play at 1920x1080.

 

CPU...another solid choice. This is the same CPU I put in my build as well. I have yet to overclock it and not sure if I am going to. This CPU is powerful enough to handle anything I do which includes some light image and video editing. It might be slightly less powerful than the i7s for editing but overclocking these i5s to around 4.3GHz will match the stock speeds of the i7s in almost all benchmarks. I couldn't be happier which this choice as well!

 

Motherboard...this sounds like a solid choice. However, like you, I've not heard/read much about it as these are pretty darn new on the market. The Intel 9 series is the newest of the chipset series. Just be aware that the H97 does not allow CPU overclocking if you were planning on overclocking that K series CPU. For overclocking, you'll have to go with the Z97 which is around $155. If you're not going to overclock then this board with a non-K series would be the better solution for your budget because you'll save a bit on a non-K series CPU.

 

Case...I like!

 

Power Supply: I agree with the above posts. You'll need more power than that. Here's a calculator that will get you close to what you'll need: https://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp I'd aim just a bit higher than what it calculates. Also, one of the the best review websites for PSUs is Johnny Guru. Most PSUs have a switch on the back as well to change the voltage.

An opinion on the modular: building a mini PC you will appreciate the less bulk from wires that are not needed (and thus not present in the case). Having a place to tuck all those extra wires while still maintaining good airflow for good  system temps is very difficult and one of the challenges to building mini PCs; thus, a modular PSU could be your best friend and worth it for less hassle with the wires.

 

Memory: for that RAM you're looking at around $130. XMP is good! Just turn on your XMP profile in the BIOS and forget about the RAM. No need to overclock here as the benefits are marginal at best.

 

Cooling: Honestly...just use the stock Intel fan if you're not planning on overclocking the CPU. It does a decent job and isn't that noisy (I never notice mine). I'm still running on mine and I've never had any issues yet. Do note that if you're overclocking the stock fan will not be sufficient. Your case comes with two fans so you should be good there. The case also supports a front 120mm radiator if you do decide to overclock the CPU and need more sufficient cooling for that.

 

Replacement CPU Fan that is compatible with your case and board: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103177

 

Compare prices here: https://www.newegg.com/ and here: https://www.ncix.com/ (I saved nearly $100 just but doing part of my shopping on NCIX and not solely on Amazon/Newegg)

[keithinhanoi]

Thanks, guys for the input so far!
 
Well, I've committed to this build by actually purchasing the EVGA GeForce GTX 760 4GB - FTW ("for the win") model from newegg.com for $295, because Amazon's price went up. There's a $10 gift card rebate, so an effective $285 - which is still a very good price, and it also came with a free copy of Watch Dogs.
 
The only difference betweeb the SC (super clock) and FTW models of the GTX 760 4GB is that the FTW model includes dual BIOS, which is great for me as I definitely plan on OC'ing this GPU.
 
 
However, I have decided not to bother with OC'ing the CPU of my new build, because I also discovered the same as what Tech said about the H97/H87 boards not being capable of overclocking.
 
Because of this, I will settle with a less expensive i5-4590 (3.3GHz / 3.7Ghz turbo / 84w), which is a new model from Intel's Haswell "refresh" this spring/summer. The great thing about this newer model is that it's just a little slower than the 4670 at stock speeds. Click here to see Intel's comparison chart of the i5 4590, 4670, 4670K & 4690.
 
And... as luck would have it, I just managed to grab an i5-4590 online for $188 (free shipping) from Fry's.com during a short 6 day sale! As an interesting side note, I used to live in Portland, Oregon, and made fairly frequent hi-tech trips to a nearby Fry's. What a fun place to gawk at all the electronic gadgetry. I'll be visiting Portland as part of my trip, so perhaps a trip there is in order...

 

Using the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite that Tech suggested, I get an estimated recommended wattage of 371w, if you can believe it. But even though a 450w PSU seems to be far more than enough, since the calculator doesn't take GPU OC'ing into account, I'll look for a 500w unit - but what I get still depends a lot on the case (it needs to fit.)

 

I'm considering changing my choice of case now, because the space on my living room entertainment center only allows for 13"w x13"d x14"h (330 mm x 330 mm x 355 mm).  The only decent case I've so far that can fit this space and the EGVA GTX 760 is the Silverstone Tek Mini-ITX Computer Case (SG05BB-LITE), which is $45 at Amazon. It's a member of Silverstone's SUGO small form factor series, which has other choices - though I like that this one has a front-facing fan.

 

I'm still not sure about the RAM - it seems I may have to choose it based on height limitations if I add an aftermarket CPU air-based cooler.

 

I'll update my OP shortly to reflect my changes - and now going to look more at non OC'ing mini ITM h87 and H97 mobos.

[Teabag86]

+1 for the GTX760 / 4GB. I've found this to be a great card. Your setup is similar to mine that I built 3 months back. I'm not a techie so had the advice of someone who is. The RAM (2x8GB) needed to match the Motherboard, not just in size but in speed/power? This wasn't something I knew about. I didn't install a sound card and relied on the i7-4770 built in sound. Whilst this is good for music and videos hooked up to the 5.1 surround, it will only play games in stereo. This is my experience anyway so the next thing for me is a soundcard. I went with a 650W PSU. Cooling shouldn't be an issue as the GTX760 has plenty of fans (3 I think) as does the coolermaster case.

 

You'll now get to play Skyrim with a controller :)

[phazer11]

However, I have decided not to bother with OC'ing the CPU of my new build, because I also discovered the same as what Tech said about the H97/H87 boards not being capable of overclocking.

Um... what? That's a troll right?

[keithinhanoi]

Um... what? That's a troll right?

No, not trolling. I'm just saying Tech is right about the mobos with the "H" designation - The H87 wasn't originally designed to allow overclocking, and when I checked into it, I found that many H87 boards still don't allow overclocking of the CPU (though it is true that some do, such as with ASUS' announcement just today.)

 

The important point is that with my budget it's better if I don't bother with components capable of CPU OC'ing, so I can save money. And just from what little reading I've done on CPU OC'ing, it looks like more of a headache than it's worth.

 

So, I'm sorry if it seemed I was trying to start a useless argument - definitely not my intention.

 

Again, thanks for the advice, all.

[phazer11]

Oh lol, read that as a P87/Z87 damn guess I need some more sleep >v<

[keithinhanoi]

Here's what I have settled on currently:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $188.00)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master GeminII M4 58.4 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.61 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus H97I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($105.24 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($146.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 4GB Dual FTW ACX Video Card (Purchased For $284.99)
Case: Silverstone SG05BB-LITE Mini ITX Tower Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($88.55 @ NCIX US)
Total: $887.37
_{Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-19 10:18 EDT-0400}
 
The thing about the small HTPC Silverstone case I've picked is that it only fits an SFX PSU, and really the best choice of SFX PSU is the one I originally had picked out - but it's only 450W and may not provide enough power as has been pointed out.
 
Now, PCPartPicker is telling me with these components, the max wattage would be 312W. Using the eXtreme PS Calculator site again, I upped things to 100%, added extra USB devices, etc. and it still shows a max wattage well under 400W (381, to be exact.)

 

Although EVGA site states a 500W PSU is required, it seems the 12v rail amperage is the really important thing here. On that, their stated requirement is 30A, and the Silverstone 450W SFX PSU has a single 12v rail at 37A.

 

If I OC the GTX, I can't imagine I'd be able to push it enough that usage would jump 50W higher, let alone 65W. I guess I'll have to look around for user reports of similar combinations to what I'm proposing here.

 

I'm still totally lost on what I need to do on the memory and CPU cooler (if I even need to replace it.)

Edited June 19, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[TechAngel85]

If you're not going to OC the CPU, then the stock cooler will do well enough. The memory you want is going to set you back between $130-$150. Two good options are:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145357

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148657 (I have these in my system but rather the 2x4GB for a total of 8GBs...planning to add another set later when budget allows.) The reason I got these were because they have better manufacture clocked timing so there's really no need for tweaking unless you want to overclock them...which I've read they OC very nicely.

[Aiyen]

Always get single rail PSU.... no exceptions. Makes everything simpler. Also if the gfx card says it needs something you provide it. The Amp´s on the single rail is alpha and omega.. if you do not have enough the card will throttle itself down to a low power mode and perform about equivalent to an onboard intel chip. 

 

I always find a few reviews of the card and then look at their measured values then add the stuff up in the end... and leave a buffer for expansion.

If you are going for gold certified then it should be with the expectation of it having a life span of 5+ years... If you plan on changing it before that then the extra price you pay over a bronze or silver model will most likely not be worth it... depending on where you live and how costly electricity is. 

[TechAngel85]

Any PSU with these dimensions: 4.92" x 2.5" x 3.94" will fit. That's the official SFX dimensions and the dimensions of your silverstone PSU which johnnyGuru gave really good scores: https://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=319

 

EDIT: https://www.silverstonetek.com/downloads/PSU/GPU-supportlist.pdf

 

According to that list, the SilverStone can support up to a GTX 770. Reports from across the net seem to support this I think you'll be okay.

[keithinhanoi]

Thanks for the link to that jonnyGURU review link, Tech. It was especially helpful because ambient temperature is a real concern of mine, as I live in a country with weather that's hot and humid most of the year, and I don't generally have AC on in my living room.

 

So the ambient temps can be anywhere from 26/27 while I'm home with AC in other rooms, and up to 34 (or even higher) when nobody's home and the windows are open, at the warmest part of the year. So it's pretty easy for me to imagine an intake temp exceeding 40 given my ambient temps and the fact that in the SUGO case this PSU would draw it's intake right off the top of the CPU.

 

So, I think I'm going to have to look at whether going with the Cubitek case for $50-$60 more will allow me to get a full sized PSU that has ample wattage and performance in higher ambient temp situations together with a lower price than the "premium" price of the Silverstone SFX one.

 

Also - I'm going to go with that second RAM suggestion, Tech - the Crucial Ballistix Tactical pow-profile desktop modules, because I think they'll open up options for better CPU cooling if I find I needed it as well as not contributing as much heat as other DDR3 modules would. I guess I picked a bad time to get a new system as far as RAM prices though - I see they were considerably lower at the end of last year!

 

I'll be reporting back on my final decision on whether to change to the Cubitek case + full sized PSU.