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Octopuss

Absolutely surreal crashes

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I don't know what happened, but my stability testing results are only getting worse and worse. I thought I just had some minor problems, resulting in occasional crashes (and it looked like it!), but since yesterday, things have gone downhill. I didn't even change anything significant like graphic drivers.

I am using vurt's stress test, and even the naked game crashes of completely freezes now (not immediatelly of course). It started happening some time during yesterday, and I repeat, I didn't make any significant changes to the PC at all. Basically, I am still only messing around with the game, MO, and ENB.

 

After my previous thread got locked, I finally figured the approach of making sure STEP only setup was stable first was a good idea, so I started testing a bit differently.

I started from pure vanilla (with just the DDSOpted vanilla+DLC+hires textures) and made my way down.

I was getting some random CTDs I couldn't reliably reproduce, but they were there. Eventually I solved it by downloading the "optimal" version of SRO. I was still using the full 2k version at that point. It didn't make any sense, because my 4GB card was barely peaking at 2,5GB then, so I am really confused how could using lower res textures help.

So I moved down the list over to landscape mods, and that looked pretty stable. I think I repeatedly managed 10mins of vurting.

The crashes (and I think an occasional freeze) started with characters and creatures, and I believe that's where I couldn't make any progress anymore. I think it could be assumed stable, but I decided I didn't want to make any compromises. The two notes I made say I first got a CTD after 8,5min, and then after 10 (I guess right before I was about to stop the game). It lasted pretty long, but it was a crash nontheless.

At that point I started experimenting with ini settings and ENB a little, but didn't get anywhere. Eventually I started moving back, and that's probably when things started to go downhill. I just couldn't get a crash-free run. I even got crashes with just the fixes category active.

 

Right now the damn game crashes or completely freezes with just the hires optimized textures. After that I only have Live another life active (so I can test), and of course I run SKSE (I don't even use the alpha). Not even the unofficial patches (it crashed with them as well). I don't get it.

I tried several things:

- reinstalled drivers 3 times and tested again both with the stable and newest beta

- switched to pure vanilla inis (they were 99% vanilla already though)

- various combinations of ENB settings (like, ExpandSystemMemoryX64, manually setting VideoMemorySizeMb, ReservedMemorySizeMb)

- completely removed ENB (that was a bad idea, because when Skyrim freezes there's no way to close it, you can't even bring Task Manager up)

 

This is a proper WTF material right there.

Edited by Octopuss

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 I started from pure vanilla (with just the DDSOpted vanilla+DLC+hires textures) and made my way down.

I was getting some random CTDs I couldn't reliably reproduce, but they were there. Eventually I solved it by downloading the "optimal" version of SRO. I was still using the full 2k version at that point. It didn't make any sense, because my 4GB card was barely peaking at 2,5GB then, so I am really confused how could using lower res textures help.

So I moved down the list over to landscape mods, and that looked pretty stable. I think I repeatedly managed 10mins of vurting.

The crashes (and I think an occasional freeze) started with characters and creatures, and I believe that's where I couldn't make any progress anymore. I think it could be assumed stable, but I decided I didn't want to make any compromises. The two notes I made say I first got a CTD after 8,5min, and then after 10 (I guess right before I was about to stop the game). It lasted pretty long, but it was a crash nontheless.

At that point I started experimenting with ini settings and ENB a little, but didn't get anywhere. Eventually I started moving back, and that's probably when things started to go downhill. I just couldn't get a crash-free run. I even got crashes with just the fixes category active.

 

Right now the damn game crashes or completely freezes with just the hires optimized textures. After that I only have Live another life active (so I can test), and of course I run SKSE (I don't even use the alpha). Not even the unofficial patches (it crashed with them as well). I don't get it.

I tried several things:

- reinstalled drivers 3 times and tested again both with the stable and newest beta

- switched to pure vanilla inis (they were 99% vanilla already though)

- various combinations of ENB settings (like, ExpandSystemMemoryX64, manually setting VideoMemorySizeMb, ReservedMemorySizeMb)

- completely removed ENB (that was a bad idea, because when Skyrim freezes there's no way to close it, you can't even bring Task Manager up)

 

This is a proper WTF material right there.

Even at 2.5GB on for the game you can get a RAM based crash. This is because other things are using that memory too. So if you're crashing when adding in more textures, it's most likely a memory limit you're hitting. You should be using ENBoost (not a complete ENB) as it's set up in the STEP guide and you can use SKSE's memory patch as well. When resetting to Vanilla, don't forget to also reset your INIs to default and start from scratch there as well.

 

A stable game is a game that does not crash... Try resetting your game back to a completely vanilla state as well as INIs. Then install only ENBoost (not your complete personal ENB) and SKSE with memory patch. That should be your 100% stable and crash free foundation. Test it and if it is, move on to installing STEP.

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I do not use full ENB.... Did you not see the ini I attached? And the inis ARE vanilla, except for sIntroSequence= in skyrim.ini.

Those 2,5GB were not how much RAM Skyrim used, but how much VRAM out of 4GB present on the card was used at max.

When I talk about crashes, I am still talking about running the "vurt test".

Oh, and I do use SKSE patched with the memory patch. Forgot to mention that.

Edited by Octopuss

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A: Do not use Live another day as a testing basis, use coc from the main menu, more reliable, since live another day can conflict with quite a few things on any list. 

B: Do not start a stress test using 2k textures mainly in exteriors, start using just the vanilla HDDLC and then move up. If your game alone is reserveing 2.5Gb then you are silly close to the actual limit (Even with ENBoost then data is still mirrored to some extend, just in another process, however this data still needs to get sent into the skyrim one to be used by the game.), and issues can arise without much provocation. 

C: If you are stress testing memory related issues then make sure script heavy mods are not installed to get more reliable data. 

D: Do not start at ugrids = 100000000 start at default then work up when everything else is stable. Think of ugrids as the cherry on top of your mod list. 

 

And finally the test that vurt outlined is not a universal stability tool, the test includes steps that could make even the vanilla game CTD. But atm it just sounds like you are trying with too much stuff installed and your computer cant handle the bandwith you ask it too, and data gets lost or delayed, and the application crash/hang as a result. 

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Ok, since people either don't bother reading my posts or I didn't make it clear enough, let me write it again:

The game randomly crashes/freezes even with no mods (I actually ran through Helgen keep to have a vanilla exterior save at hand to test without Alternate life as well) at all. It does so with or without SKSE (I do use the patched version that includes memory patch).

I do not use full ENB (you can tell by looking at the attached files).

I use vanilla Skyrim inis.

My PC has 16GB RAM and Radeon R9 290 with 4GB VRAM. With partial STEP mods active (up to characters and creatures), VRAM usage was at roughly 2,5GB at the very maximum; on average it was much, much lower.

 

A while ago it ran stable for 10 minutes with just the vanilla optimized textures (no hires pack), and when I tried again just to be sure, it crashes within a minute. I am starting to give up, this is not normal.

Edited by Octopuss

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Did you try verifying the games files through steam? Perhaps something got borked while you were modding? Additionally, you may just have a hardware issue. Try stress testing your GPU. Imo, you shouldnt be crashing on almost vanilla. Vurts stress test will crash eventually, but not after 1 minute on vanilla.

 

Did you configure the skse properly, as in the skse.ini file within Data/ SKSE folder? I know i once overwrote it and forgot to add the memory patch ini settings  ::):  You could also try raising the settings. 

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Again that stress test will crash even a vanilla game! Hence you need to make several of them and then see at the total. 

1 out of 10 times CTD within a minute would still amount to a stable game for example. 

 

You will NEVER be able to get an entirely CTD free game.. since it is an open world game then this is just not a realistic expectation. You can only aim to make sure you do not get them so often that it ruins gameplay. 

 

And again that stress test is not a reliable indicator on its own. You need to hold it up against other types of tests as well. 

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First, let's not let this thread go onto any tangents that blame mods or anything else other than user error, OK?

 

Second, all I can say is follow the STEP guide to the letter starting with a fresh Skyrim install. Leave nothing to chance and follow the guide EXACTLY. That includes all settings and NOT setting anything that is explicitly not instructed for the reasons stated in the guide.

 

Install STEP:Core to start and NOT the full mod list.

 

You will have no issues if you do this, and if you do, then you have a hardware or software issue that does not relate directly to Skyrim or associated mods. We can address that then.

 

What we don't want is to troubleshoot your problem to later find out that you had some deviant setting or config that you 'assumed' should be OK for whatever reason.

 

Baby STEPs

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Ok forget the whole thing, because I cannot follow the guide past ini tweaks - I am not forcing anything via CCC, period. Thus, the guide apparently doesn't apply to me.

You can lock this thread as well.

Edited by Octopuss

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Largely I agree, but if you are running STEP Core/ Extended and consistently crash within one minute of vurts stress test, then I would assume there is a problem. The threshold for vurts test is 5 minutes w/o CTD for a reasonable assumption of stable game play... and that is before any additional testing. So yeah, vurts will CTD, but not within 1 minute every time, especially on his hardware setup.

 

I always like to think of vurts stress test as the 1st in a sequence of tests for a mod setup.

 

Edit: Oops, posted past lock request, sorry. Last post was during writing of my post

Edited by MadWizard25

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Ok forget the whole thing, because I cannot follow the guide past ini tweaks - I am not forcing anything via CCC, period. Thus, the guide apparently doesn't apply to me.

You can lock this thread as well.

I have tested AF extensively by running from ENB or from CCC. The latter gives a frame rate gain over the former, and the quality is no different.

 

By what wisdom do you (or anyone for that matter) determine that forcing AF through CCC is in any way problematic?

 

I'll add to the guide that other methods can be used, but forcing AF through CCC is the performance 'friendliest' method (so doing otherwise would seem not so smart).

 

 

sooooo ... FOLLOW THE GUIDE! (now I have removed your excuse not to)

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In that case I don't see how am I not following the guide. The files are intact. Inis are vanilla (sorry for not following the guide here, I didn't even add what it suggests yet!). The game crashes even before I add SKSE in.

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Uninstall everything and start from a fresh game with a new MO profile ... follow the guide through section 1.C. only ... do you still crash?

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Uninstall what? The game? Why?! The files are INTACT. Do you think Steam lies with its consistency check?

Yes I did create new MO profile (I didn't say that though). I did change stuff in the inis a few times, but I always eventually revert to vanilla version, which I create from the launcher (selecting ultra, and then disabling AF and AA) and then start a game directly (and without anything mod-related) so additional lines are added.

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Steam doesn't lie about the files, but you may have some extra files that could potentially screw your game and Steam is not looking for any additional files.

 

Why do you ask for help first and then question people's advices?

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Any extra files would be completely irrelevant (unless I left a dll from ENB there of course), because the game wouldn't recognize them in the first place.

I do follow advices that make sense.

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