DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 182

[jwisser]

4 minutes ago, sheson said:

What is the last screenshot showing. Is that the building that goes missing?

Yes, that's the interior of the tower, having clicked on it to show info about it in the console. It's roughly the same shot as the second screenshot, but with the tower present rather than missing.

[sheson]

5 minutes ago, jwisser said:

Yes, that's the interior of the tower, having clicked on it to show info about it in the console. It's roughly the same shot as the second screenshot, but with the tower present rather than missing.

Post a reference form id of a building or structure that goes missing while everything is working as it should, e.g. before generating LOD.

[jwisser]

15 minutes ago, sheson said:

Post a reference form id of a building or structure that goes missing while everything is working as it should, e.g. before generating LOD.

Reference form ID without DynDOLOD active is 8600AA28. Attached is another shot of the same interior without DynDOLOD active, showing the reference form ID and the fact that the ref was last changed by WhiterunDefenses.esp (whereas in the previous screenshot it was last changed by DynDOLOD).

EDIT: I should also mention that I noticed the tower IS visible as LOD from inside the Whiterun worldspace. It's only the physical tower in the Tamriel worldspace that seems to go missing.

Edited January 19, 2022 by jwisser

[sheson]

5 minutes ago, jwisser said:

Reference form ID without DynDOLOD active is 8600AA28. Attached is another shot of the same interior without DynDOLOD active, showing the reference form ID and the fact that the ref was last changed by WhiterunDefenses.esp (whereas in the previous screenshot it was last changed by DynDOLOD).

Test with a new game.

[jwisser]

3 minutes ago, sheson said:

Test with a new game.

These screenshots are all on brand new games, using

coc whiterunstables

from the menu screen to enter the world with the default character. Behavior is identical on a new game as well as on existing saves.

[sheson]

7 minutes ago, jwisser said:

These screenshots are all on brand new games, using

coc whiterunstables

from the menu screen to enter the world with the default character. Behavior is identical on a new game as well as on existing saves.

The screenshot from "inside" the tower shows that the model of the tower is loaded and showing. It is the same model and from id for outside the tower.

Explain or show how DynDOLOD makes this same full model disappear, while being in the same cell and DynDOLOD does nothing to the full model.

I can not replicate the issue with a vanilla load order + the mod.

[jwisser]

4 minutes ago, sheson said:

The screenshot from "inside" the tower shows that the model of the tower is loaded and showing. It is the same model and from id for outside the tower.

Explain or show how DynDOLOD makes this same full model disappear, while being in the same cell and DynDOLOD does nothing to the full model.

I can not replicate the issue with a vanilla load order + the mod.

The screenshots from inside the tower are taken with LOD generated by the old (December) version of DynDOLOD and without using DynDOLOD respectively. It's when I use Alpha-64 that the model vanishes. Something has changed between the December release and Alpha-64 that causes this tower to disappear.

Based on the "DynDOLODx64.exe, Version: 3.0.0.0, Date: 2021-12-15 09:05:25" message it prints to the log and the 12/15 date on a "DynDOLOD 3.00-32382-Alpha-58-1639558310.7z" file in my Downloads folder, I believe the working version to be Alpha-58.

Aside from testing on my end with only Fortified Whiterun and DynDOLOD, is there any additional proof/information I can provide?

[sheson]

7 minutes ago, jwisser said:

The screenshots from inside the tower are taken with LOD generated by the old (December) version of DynDOLOD and without using DynDOLOD respectively. It's when I use Alpha-64 that the model vanishes. Something has changed between the December release and Alpha-64 that causes this tower to disappear.

Based on the "DynDOLODx64.exe, Version: 3.0.0.0, Date: 2021-12-15 09:05:25" message it prints to the log and the 12/15 date on a "DynDOLOD 3.00-32382-Alpha-58-1639558310.7z" file in my Downloads folder, I believe the working version to be Alpha-58.

Aside from testing on my end with only Fortified Whiterun and DynDOLOD, is there any additional proof/information I can provide?

Here is a screenshot with DynDOLOD active that I generated with Alpha 64.

Nothing changed how DynDOLOD will treat this reference (unset IsFullLOD, generate static object LOD for it) in years.

Generate LOD for the current load order with either version and compare.

[jwisser]

7 minutes ago, sheson said:

Here is a screenshot with DynDOLOD active that I generated with Alpha 64.

Nothing changed how DynDOLOD will treat this reference (unset IsFullLOD, generate static object LOD for it) in years.

Generate LOD for the current load order with either version and compare.

With respect, I have spent hours today repeatedly generating LOD for this load order with Alpha-64 and Alpha-58 and testing the results so that I could provide a useful report of the issue. I am telling you, and have provided screenshots showing, that under my full load order, the tower is there with Alpha-58 and not there with Alpha-64. Asking me to do the same thing yet again isn't going to do anything but waste both our time.

With that said, after generating LOD with Alpha-64 for the Tamriel worldspace only, with a vanilla game plus ONLY Fortified Whiterun, the tower does indeed appear as expected. That indicates to me that this must be an interplay between some other mod I'm using and a seemingly-unrelated change in DynDOLOD that did happen between Alpha-58 and Alpha-64. Is it possible Noble Skyrim or a similar texture replacer could be affecting this?

Alpha-58 has been a more reliable experience for me overall than the more recent versions. If I stay on Alpha-58, should I stick with the current version of the DLL, scripts, and resources? Or is it safe/advisable to upgrade those as updates become available?

[sheson]

21 minutes ago, jwisser said:

With respect, I have spent hours today repeatedly generating LOD for this load order with Alpha-64 and Alpha-58 and testing the results so that I could provide a useful report of the issue. I am telling you, and have provided screenshots showing, that under my full load order, the tower is there with Alpha-58 and not there with Alpha-64. Asking me to do the same thing yet again isn't going to do anything but waste both our time.

With that said, after generating LOD with Alpha-64 for the Tamriel worldspace only, with a vanilla game plus ONLY Fortified Whiterun, the tower does indeed appear as expected. That indicates to me that this must be an interplay between some other mod I'm using and a seemingly-unrelated change in DynDOLOD that did happen between Alpha-58 and Alpha-64. Is it possible Noble Skyrim or a similar texture replacer could be affecting this?

Alpha-58 has been a more reliable experience for me overall than the more recent versions. If I stay on Alpha-58, should I stick with the current version of the DLL, scripts, and resources? Or is it safe/advisable to upgrade those as updates become available?

Check if any other plugins overwrite the reference or base record.

With the full model not showing, open console and use "prid xx00aa28" (xx = load order id of the plugin) and then "enable" and if nothing happens "recycleactor"

Otherwise try to check if there is a mod or plugin that adds occlusion planes/boxes "blocking" the view maybe.

Zip and upload the entire logs folder and ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\Export\ folder of both version if you can't compare those yourself.

If you suspect another mods/plugin to interfere, try to test that theory by adding them to the vanilla + mod test.

[jwisser]

17 minutes ago, sheson said:

Check if any other plugins overwrite the reference or base record.

With the full model not showing, open console and use "prid xx00aa28" (xx = load order id of the plugin) and then "enable" and if nothing happens "recycleactor"

Otherwise try to check if there is a mod or plugin that adds occlusion planes/boxes "blocking" the view maybe.

Zip and upload the entire logs and ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\Export\ folder of both version.

If you suspect another mods/plugin to interfere, try to test that theory by adding them to the vanilla + mod test.

Just tried adding Noble Skyrim and regenerating the LOD with Alpha-64, and bang: the tower was gone again. The combination of Fortified Whiterun, Noble Skyrim textures, and DynDOLOD 3 Alpha-64 does seem to be what triggers it. `prid 1000AA28` and disable/enable and recycleactor resulted in no change.

Curious to hear if you're able to reproduce when you add Noble Skyrim to the mix; if not, something very strange is happening on my end, and I'll stop bugging you about this. If you do see this issue, please try walking into the tower area; you should also find that the tower's collision is gone as well as the visual model.

For now, I'm off to bed--it's 4am and I have work in a few hours. Thanks for looking into this!

EDIT: As I went to log off, it occurred to me: if the Noble Skyrim's textures trigger this, is it possible that the relevant change between Alpha-58 and Alpha-64 was in TexGen rather than DynDoLOD? I don't understand enough about their inner workings to know if that's plausible, but I'll try using old TexGen/new DynDOLOD and new TexGen/old DynDOLOD tomorrow when I have a chance.

Edited January 19, 2022 by jwisser
Added fridge moment thought.

[sheson]

5 hours ago, jwisser said:

Just tried adding Noble Skyrim and regenerating the LOD with Alpha-64, and bang: the tower was gone again. The combination of Fortified Whiterun, Noble Skyrim textures, and DynDOLOD 3 Alpha-64 does seem to be what triggers it. `prid 1000AA28` and disable/enable and recycleactor resulted in no change.

Curious to hear if you're able to reproduce when you add Noble Skyrim to the mix; if not, something very strange is happening on my end, and I'll stop bugging you about this. If you do see this issue, please try walking into the tower area; you should also find that the tower's collision is gone as well as the visual model.

For now, I'm off to bed--it's 4am and I have work in a few hours. Thanks for looking into this!

EDIT: As I went to log off, it occurred to me: if the Noble Skyrim's textures trigger this, is it possible that the relevant change between Alpha-58 and Alpha-64 was in TexGen rather than DynDoLOD? I don't understand enough about their inner workings to know if that's plausible, but I'll try using old TexGen/new DynDOLOD and new TexGen/old DynDOLOD tomorrow when I have a chance.

I was able to replicate and fix thanks to that information.

Test with Alpha 65.

[Zanderat]

Using Alpha 64.  I did some searching and found similar question, but no definitive answer beyond adjust the RGB values.  My tundra grass LOD is green.  Not greenish, it is green like a summer grass green.  The tundra grass is the brown autumn variety from  Tamrielic Grass mod.  As you approach, the LOD grass fades and is replaced by the correct color (non LOD) grass.  I am stumped as to what is going on here.  I have no other grass mods installed and did regenerate the grass cache just in case.  Thanks.

Green grass LOD:

A few steps closer (non LOD grass):

 

[sheson]

21 minutes ago, Zanderat said:

Using Alpha 64.  I did some searching and found similar question, but no definitive answer beyond adjust the RGB values.  My tundra grass LOD is green.  Not greenish, it is green like a summer grass green.  The tundra grass is the brown autumn variety from  Tamrielic Grass mod.  As you approach, the LOD grass fades and is replaced by the correct color (non LOD) grass.  I am stumped as to what is going on here.  I have no other grass mods installed and did regenerate the grass cache just in case.  Thanks.

 

What is the significance of Alpha 64 compared to grass LOD generated in the past year with all the other versions?

Grass LOD uses the billboards generated by TexGen, e.g. the textures which are added to the object LOD texture atlas which the BTO refers to. So make sure the billboard texture match the full model grass.
The RGB values of the DynDOLOD INI set the vertex color of the billboard planes in the BTO. These can be used trying to match the simple grass shader which is not available in LOD.

Weather, image space, ENB effect and whatnot are outside the control of the BTO and textures.

The grass cache contains the placements and brightness variants of the different grass models. Nothing else.

[Zanderat]

Thanks, @sheson.  So that means that I should look at the grass mod, if you feel TexGen picked the colors up correctly?