CTD at 3.1GB

[viking]

Some key posts on this and related threads (experts feel free to note any errors or insights):

• Post #11
• Post #27
• Post #40 (this is where the 500/430 ratio seems to have originated.)
• Post #66
• Post#278
• Post #313
• Post #1 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #64 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #68 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #70 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)

Wiki article (draft)

 

Thanks,

STEP

 

OP follows

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First of all I wanted to thank you all for the great work you have done with STEP. Skyrim is the first game I installed on this computer and you guys have made it an AMAZING game. That being said, I have an issue that I hope you can help me solve.

 

My setup:

Vanilla Skyrim

gtx670 w/ 4GB @1080p w/ latest driver

16GB Memory

3770K at about 4GHz

Windows 8 64bit

ENB 149

Ultra settings

Highest available texture/quality

Mod Organizer

Step 2.2.1 + Skyrim Revisited + others

 

I have noticed a post here and there saying that Skyrim can't really address more than about 3.1GB of memory without issues. This seems to jive with my experience, meaning I CTD every time my memory hits that mark, but I couldn't really find anything definitive on the topic. The issue with googling the topic is the pre 1.3 skyrim that couldn't address more than 2gb of memory.

 

My mod list is mostly based on STEP which is why I came here for help, with about ten mods added onto the end (Interesting NPCs, Detailed Cities, Economics, COT, and a couple others). The reason I haven't included my mod list is that it doesn't seem to matter. As long as I keep the memory usage below 3GB I can have pretty much any combination of mods.

 

What I have tried so far (in no particular order):

• resetting ini files
• removing enb
• not using attklt
• only using a new game
• removing all mods and adding one by one until issue crops up
• running as admin
• watching the papyrus log - it seems relatively clean, no obvious errors right before CTD

Yes, I can run STEP just fine without any issues, but I also never get near 3GB of memory. I have tracked VRAM usage as well and have seen a max of 2.7GB/4GB.

 

As an example of where I might run into issues: I start a new character with Alternate Start. I start with Breezehome. Run out of Whiterun, past the Brewry, up the hill to the bandits. Enter the cave (watching memory usage with Elys MemInfo), and it dies right after I see 3GB. I have this same issue not using AS, sitting through the intro, and then running over to whiterun.

 

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place. I have spent more than a week trying to solve this issue, and the only solution I have found is to reduce memory usage. I have got to the point where I can exchange two texture packs and get into the cave without a CTD, but with both I get a CTD. I didn't even think texture packs should even affect CTDs, but I'm relatively new to Skyrim on the PC, so I could be wrong. I also found I could get a bit further with ENB turned off, but would still crash once I got above 3GB of memory. Finally, if I reload a game after a CTD, I can play just fine...until I reach 3GB of memory.

 

I really hope you guys can help. I more than willing to try anything at this point, besides just disabling all of the mods.

[JudgmentJay]

One of the people in this thread crashes with 1200mb VRAM. Whilst Neovalen can run perfectly fine with 2900VRAM with half sized normals.

Is that with extensive testing though? Let's face it... Skyrim is going to crash occasionally regardless of RAM/VRAM.

[Neovalen]

 

One of the people in this thread crashes with 1200mb VRAM. Whilst Neovalen can run perfectly fine with 2900VRAM with half sized normals.

Is that with extensive testing though? Let's face it... Skyrim is going to crash occasionally regardless of RAM/VRAM.

 

Extensive as me playing for a few hours strait... was watching PrecisionX on my g15. Your right though not all Sky rim CTDs are caused by these issues but a fair # are. Hope that when Elder Scrolls VI rolls around it'll be DX 10+ with maybe 64bit addressing.

[TechAngel85]

 

One of the people in this thread crashes with 1200mb VRAM. Whilst Neovalen can run perfectly fine with 2900VRAM with half sized normals.

Is that with extensive testing though? Let's face it... Skyrim is going to crash occasionally regardless of RAM/VRAM.

Extensive as me playing for a few hours strait... was watching PrecisionX on my g15. Your right though not all Sky rim CTDs are caused by these issues but a fair # are. Hope that when Elder Scrolls VI rolls around it'll be DX 10+ with maybe 64bit addressing.

DirectX 10 is would still be outdated...I'm hoping to make a full update to DirectX 11 at least and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't go with a 64bit option at least. Everything is moving towards 64bit so games need to also.

[viking]

JudgementJay, could you post your mod list? I have been playing around with this for a good part of the day, and I'm just amazed that you can get ~1.8GB of Ram with TPC at twice my resolution. Just jumping to riverwood with a new character puts me at more than 2.1GB. The worst locations for me are in cities, particularly Windhelm, which jumping there puts me at about 2.6GB...and entering Candlehearth Hall then adds another 500MB and CTD. These numbers are with SRO and Skyrim HD disabled (which seemed to add the most based on my testing).

[Roflcat]

Out of curiosity, are you guys with high RAM usage running full unoptimized HRDLC?

[JudgmentJay]

JudgementJay could you post your mod list? I have been playing around with this for a good part of the day, and I'm just amazed that you can get ~1.8GB of Ram with TPC at twice my resolution.

 

I cut a few more memory-intensive mods and reduced all my normalmaps to a maximum of 1024 the other night and I got the Riverwood load-in down to 1600mb RAM usage... 1900 with uGrids=7.

 

Just tested Windhelm... 2GB on load-in and 2250 in Candlehearth.

[Neovalen]

Out of curiosity are you guys with high RAM usage running full unoptimized HRDLC?

I've DDSOptimized all Bethesda provided textures and limited the normals of the HRDLC to 1024x1024. Did the same for SRO, SHD, and SkyrimHD.

[z929669]

Given the penchant of many in this group for testing performance, I am inclined to ask you all to be Mod Testers. We need good testers to vet mods in the context of full STEP.

 

Salvador makes some good points, so I would like to see some data to support or refute if anyone is willing ...

[TechAngel85]

Given the penchant of many in this group for testing performance, I am inclined to ask you all to be Mod Testers. We need good testers to vet mods in the context of full STEP.

 

Salvador makes some good points, so I would like to see some data to support or refute if anyone is willing ...

It's a little out-of-date, but for those that are interested please check out our Mod Testing Guide to make sure you are completely willing to properly test mods for STEP.

 

It's really annoying having to repeat myself to users that are testing mods and saying that a mod isn't working right when they didn't follow the instructions for the mod or the proper testing procedure. I've asked users, "have you followed the proper procedures or did you just toss it into your current setup and report it not working?" *crickets chirping* "That's what I thought..."

[viking]

Just as an FYI, this is not solved in the 1.9 beta.

[torminater]

It's a general stability issue for 32-bit programs. Can't really fix it without getting a 64-bit TESV.exe out on the market - which would be really awesome!

[Farlo]

It's a general stability issue for 32-bit programs. Can't really fix it without getting a 64-bit TESV.exe out on the market - which would be really awesome!

My god, as if Skyrim wasn't buggy enough :P  As much as I want another TES game I really hope they take a few years off and rewrite the engine entirely, you can only build on top of 2002-era technology for so long before it just turns into crap.  At this point it's almost as bad as the CoD games using the same engine since CoD2... it's not, the Creation Engine has some massive improvements over Gamebryo, but you can tell most of it's the same.

 

EDIT: mfw when the Gamebryo engine powers stuff like Rift and Epic Mickey...

[MontyMM]

It's a general stability issue for 32-bit programs. Can't really fix it without getting a 64-bit TESV.exe out on the market - which would be really awesome!

I'm not convinced of that.  I don't see any fundamental reason why that instability should exist.  I still think that there could simply be some poor coding that hasn't given enough consideration to higher memory requirements, which only really arise for the serious modder.  Bethsoft are not the best in this regard.  They let something as atrocious as the navmesh bug bedevil modders for years, until they really had no choice but to fix it.

 

I think it's vanishingly unlikely that we'll see a 64 bit upgrade for Skyrim.  But just maybe, there is a very slightly greater chance of seeing a DX11 version.  This was originally planned (and promised), and could have a major impact on memory behaviour.  Still not likely, but I think it would involve far fewer complications for Beth than moving to 64bit, and could also be used to generate new interest and publicity by including a couple of fancy new effects.  If we were going to start a petition and march on Bethsoft headquarters, that's what I would call for.

[Farlo]

If we were going to start a petition and march on Bethsoft headquarters, that's what I would call for.

 

I'll grab the pitchforks!

[MontyMM]

 

If we were going to start a petition and march on Bethsoft headquarters that's what I would call for.

I'll grab the pitchforks!

 

:P They don't want to see the massed ranks of STEP darkening the horizon!