How to make DynDOLOD work with Azura statue replacer?

[Grajowiec]

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but I just can't figure out how can I make DynDOLOD work with Azura Highpoly EnbParticleLight. I created a custom mesh mask rule as manual says, the comments said to turn off the mod and regenerate DynDOLOD i tried it and it didn't work. I'm still getting not glowing Azura statue when I'm far and it changes to glowing one when I'm getting close. Any help on what should I do? In the past when I used different Azura statue replacers it always worked so I'm really lost now.

[BrotherShamus]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:46 AM, sheson said:

Also make a similar screenshot of the STAT base record 00033DCA

2 hours ago, sheson said:

I spend some time investigating this combination. The Praedy's ShrineOfAzuraSizeX3.esp plugin overwriting the large reference and changing the position of the statue complicates things in terms of large reference bugs but also makes it possible to include a mesh rule file for it.

Get Alpha-95, load rules with low, medium or high. If Praedy's ShrineOfAzuraSizeX3.esp is part of the load order, this will load a rule for the statue that sets None for LOD 4 to 16, Level0 for LOD 32, VWD and Force Dynamic, None for Grid and Original for Reference. This seems to be the best option for this setup. Let me know how it goes.

I'm attaching the screenshot... I hope it's the correct one.  I'll update to Alpha 95 and let you know how it goes.  My schedule as of yesterday is ridiculous for the next week but I'll get back to you as soon as I'm able.

 

[BrotherShamus]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:53 AM, sheson said:

I spend some time investigating this combination. The Praedy's ShrineOfAzuraSizeX3.esp plugin overwriting the large reference and changing the position of the statue complicates things in terms of large reference bugs but also makes it possible to include a mesh rule file for it.

Get Alpha-95, load rules with low, medium or high. If Praedy's ShrineOfAzuraSizeX3.esp is part of the load order, this will load a rule for the statue that sets None for LOD 4 to 16, Level0 for LOD 32, VWD and Force Dynamic, None for Grid and Original for Reference. This seems to be the best option for this setup. Let me know how it goes.

Works perfectly.  Thanks!

[EazyH]

Hey everyone, happy new year! Sorry to bother again w/ this issue as I've been gone for a bit, but I’m getting inconsistent results with full model LOD statues using the settings the manual recommends. With these settings, the statues are not properly appearing as LOD. I also tried setting none, none , none, none, FarFull for the ENB light Azura statue, and it didn’t seem to work. On the latest version of DynDOLOD. Any thoughts?:

https://imgur.com/a/G1eptNu

 

Thnx for any help

[MisterMorden]

10 minutes ago, EazyH said:

Hey everyone, happy new year! Sorry to bother again w/ this issue as I've been gone for a bit, but I’m getting inconsistent results with full model LOD statues using the settings the manual recommends. With these settings, the statues are not properly appearing as LOD. I also tried setting none, none , none, none, FarFull for the ENB light Azura statue, and it didn’t seem to work. On the latest version of DynDOLOD. Any thoughts?:

https://imgur.com/a/G1eptNu

 

Thnx for any help

Did you try clicking "visible when distant?"

[EazyH]

35 minutes ago, MisterMorden said:

Did you try clicking "visible when distant?"

VWD is selected in them all, per the manual. Tho I initially thought VWD was mostly for if there IS already an LOD model

[sheson]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:26 PM, EazyH said:

Hey everyone, happy new year! Sorry to bother again w/ this issue as I've been gone for a bit, but I’m getting inconsistent results with full model LOD statues using the settings the manual recommends. With these settings, the statues are not properly appearing as LOD. I also tried setting none, none , none, none, FarFull for the ENB light Azura statue, and it didn’t seem to work. On the latest version of DynDOLOD. Any thoughts?:

https://imgur.com/a/G1eptNu

Thnx for any help

Post log and debug log to upload when making posts. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue
This example is for the Azura statue for whjch a LOD model ships with DynDOLOD Resources.

Read this https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules#VWD-Visible-When-Distant and also the text next to the VWD chechbox.
By setting the VWD flag you are instructing DynDOLOD to only apply the rule if a LOD model exist, which most likely does not.

[EazyH]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:45 PM, sheson said:

Post log and debug log to upload when making posts. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue
This example is for the Azura statue for whjch a LOD model ships with DynDOLOD Resources.

Read this https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules#VWD-Visible-When-Distant and also the text next to the VWD chechbox.
By setting the VWD flag you are instructing DynDOLOD to only apply the rule if a LOD model exist, which most likely does not.

See, I thought as much w/ the VWD setting but saw it in your examples. I also noticed you use VWD for ENB light azura in your example, but that shouldn't work right? Siince it should only use dynamic LOD because of enb light? Am I misunderstanding?

[sheson]

1 hour ago, EazyH said:

See, I thought as much w/ the VWD setting but saw it in your examples. I also noticed you use VWD for ENB light azura in your example, but that shouldn't work right? Siince it should only use dynamic LOD because of enb light? Am I misunderstanding?

As I wrote, DynDOLOD Resources includes LOD model(s) for shrineofazura01.nif

[EazyH]

33 minutes ago, sheson said:

As I wrote, DynDOLOD Resources includes LOD model(s) for shrineofazura01.nif

I see, That’s good to know. And this is for the PS Boss ENB light Azura in particular? So none, none, none, VWD FarFULL would work well for that particular statue (interestingly enough, the rules the mod author included are different from yours, should we roll with the settings he included, or none at each level?), but all others should use Full settings, FarFULL w/ no VWD flag, if they do not have dedicated LOD meshes (this was my original thought process)

 

is there a simple way to tell which if any of the statues from various replacers have LOD meshes included with DynDOLOD resources?

Edited January 2, 2023 by EazyH

[sheson]

16 hours ago, EazyH said:

I see, That’s good to know. And this is for the PS Boss ENB light Azura in particular? So none, none, none, VWD FarFULL would work well for that particular statue (interestingly enough, the rules the mod author included are different from yours, should we roll with the settings he included, or none at each level?), but all others should use Full settings, FarFULL w/ no VWD flag, if they do not have dedicated LOD meshes (this was my original thought process)

 

is there a simple way to tell which if any of the statues from various replacers have LOD meshes included with DynDOLOD resources?

DynDOLOD Resoures contains LOD models for shrineofazura01.nif, which mean if a rule matches it, the VWD flag needs to be set as well in order for the rule to take effect. If the LOD model visually matches the full model is irrelevant.

Read this https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules#VWD-Visible-When-Distant and also the text next to the VWD chechbox.

See https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue for an example rule in case the full model uses features that are not supported by object LOD.

It seems the rules included in the mod where made with the intention to show the object LOD for the statue beyond the far grid (I would suggest to use NeverfadeFull instead). Adding it to LOD 16 (or LOD level 32 if that is used for the map) is probably done to show the statue on the map as well. It depends on the full model if that looks OK or not.

[EazyH]

6 hours ago, sheson said:

DynDOLOD Resoures contains LOD models for shrineofazura01.nif, which mean if a rule matches it, the VWD flag needs to be set as well in order for the rule to take effect. If the LOD model visually matches the full model is irrelevant.

Read this https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules#VWD-Visible-When-Distant and also the text next to the VWD chechbox.

See https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue for an example rule in case the full model uses features that are not supported by object LOD.

It seems the rules included in the mod where made with the intention to show the object LOD for the statue beyond the far grid (I would suggest to use NeverfadeFull instead). Adding it to LOD 16 (or LOD level 32 if that is used for the map) is probably done to show the statue on the map as well. It depends on the full model if that looks OK or not.

Thank you for breaking this down. Should be my very last question for you. You mentioned that it needs the  VWD flag because it has a corresponding mesh in the resources. But if none of those meshes actually fit the new model, wouldn’t that be an issue? I previewed most of them, and I saw one that seemed to fit Mandragora’s new statue, as well as a couple others, but none seemed to match PS Boss’s, particularly the ENB light variant Im using. So going by that logic, I would think I need to use no VWD flag, none at each level, and NeverFadesFULL.

 

If I’m understanding you correctly, though, you’re saying that I should still use the VWD flag for this particular statue? Because there exists in LOD model for shrine of azura regardless..?

 

Would this apply to other statue replacers as well? If there’s an LOD file in DynDOLOD resources, it should have the VWD flag, even if it’s not a match whatsoever?(For example, Meridia?)

Edited January 3, 2023 by EazyH

[sheson]

45 minutes ago, EazyH said:

Thank you for breaking this down. Should be my very last question for you. You mentioned that it needs the  VWD flag because it has a corresponding mesh in the resources. But if none of those meshes actually fit the new model, wouldn’t that be an issue? I previewed most of them, and I saw one that seemed to fit Mandragora’s new statue, as well as a couple others, but none seemed to match PS Boss’s, particularly the ENB light variant Im using. So going by that logic, I would think I need to use no VWD flag, none at each level, and NeverFadesFULL.

 

If I’m understanding you correctly, though, you’re saying that I should still use the VWD flag for this particular statue? Because there exists in LOD model for shrine of azura regardless..?

 

Would this apply to other statue replacers as well? If there’s an LOD file in DynDOLOD resources, it should have the VWD flag, even if it’s not a match whatsoever?(For example, Meridia?)

DynDOLOD uses filename matching to assigned LOD models to full models. Rules can be used to influence that. That method exists since the original LODGen.pas script since 9 years or so to avoid having to update thousands of base records manually to set LOD models. See https://dyndolod.info/Mod-Authors#How-to-add-your-own-object-LOD-models and https://dyndolod.info/DynDOLOD-Reference

The LOD generation process uses the LOD models it finds in the load order. DynDOLOD Resoures ships with thousands of new and updated LOD models for the vanilla game and also a few LOD models with CRC32 of the full model in case of mods replacing file models or filename collisions.

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue:
If a mod replaces full models of statues like Azura without including updated object LOD models, the generated object LOD will not match anymore.

DynDOLOD ships with LOD models (e.g. shrineofazura01_lod_0.nif) for shrineofazura01.nif. It does/can not know if the LOD model visually matches shrineofazura01.nif or not. A LOD model was matched to the filename. Hence, rules for shrineofazura01.nif need to set the VWD flag in order to take effect. This works the same for everything.

[EazyH]

17 hours ago, sheson said:

DynDOLOD uses filename matching to assigned LOD models to full models. Rules can be used to influence that. That method exists since the original LODGen.pas script since 9 years or so to avoid having to update thousands of base records manually to set LOD models. See https://dyndolod.info/Mod-Authors#How-to-add-your-own-object-LOD-models and https://dyndolod.info/DynDOLOD-Reference

The LOD generation process uses the LOD models it finds in the load order. DynDOLOD Resoures ships with thousands of new and updated LOD models for the vanilla game and also a few LOD models with CRC32 of the full model in case of mods replacing file models or filename collisions.

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Replaced-Full-Model-Example-Azura-Statue:
If a mod replaces full models of statues like Azura without including updated object LOD models, the generated object LOD will not match anymore.

DynDOLOD ships with LOD models (e.g. shrineofazura01_lod_0.nif) for shrineofazura01.nif. It does/can not know if the LOD model visually matches shrineofazura01.nif or not. A LOD model was matched to the filename. Hence, rules for shrineofazura01.nif need to set the VWD flag in order to take effect. This works the same for everything.

Forgive me, I’m trying to ask this in the most intelligent way, I feel like you’re trying to break it down, and I am just missing something you’re saying. If it can/does not know if the LOD model, visually matches, and if there is no matching model, why is VWD required? If you set a custom rule for shrineofazura01.nif at none, none, none, none, NeverFadesFull/FarFULL for example, would it not correctly display?

 

Reading the tooltip for VWD, and what you generally say, it sounds like if a statue  DOES NOT ship with matching LOD, you generally DO NOT want to select VWD, as there is no matching LOD for them. Otherwise, if it’s a vanilla statue, you either get the default/vanilla statue, or if it is a mod without a statue in general, you will get nothing, because you tried to force an LOD model with VWD when there is not one. My understanding was without VWD you can force your Full custom rules. Your last sentence that “this works for everything” further confuses me a bit, since in some situations, you certainly DON’T want to use VWD. Unless you are saying that there is a new LOD model specifically for that statue now included with DynDOLOD resources, because then I would understand it needing VWD, as there is now a matching model somewhere.
 

Otherwise, I think that’s what’s confusing me, because there still isn’t an LOD model, and I was of the understanding that ENB light does not work with regular LOD anyway, so I would assume there is no matching model to select VWD for in that case (though I appear to be wrong). Hopefully I am voicing my confusion without sounding dense? Again, I apologize if I am grasping this slowly, I just want to make sure I fully understand your instructions, so that I do not  have to bother you again with it in the future 

 

Or perhaps you mean if it would have LOD in vanilla by default, then that’s when it needs to have the VWD flag?

 

Thank you

Edited January 4, 2023 by EazyH

[sheson]

8 hours ago, EazyH said:

Forgive me, I’m trying to ask this in the most intelligent way, I feel like you’re trying to break it down, and I am just missing something you’re saying. If it can/does not know if the LOD model, visually matches, and if there is no matching model, why is VWD required? If you set a custom rule for shrineofazura01.nif at none, none, none, none, NeverFadesFull/FarFULL for example, would it not correctly display?

 

Reading the tooltip for VWD, and what you generally say, it sounds like if a statue  DOES NOT ship with matching LOD, you generally DO NOT want to select VWD, as there is no matching LOD for them. Otherwise, if it’s a vanilla statue, you either get the default/vanilla statue, or if it is a mod without a statue in general, you will get nothing, because you tried to force an LOD model with VWD when there is not one. My understanding was without VWD you can force your Full custom rules. Your last sentence that “this works for everything” further confuses me a bit, since in some situations, you certainly DON’T want to use VWD. Unless you are saying that there is a new LOD model specifically for that statue now included with DynDOLOD resources, because then I would understand it needing VWD, as there is now a matching model somewhere.
 

Otherwise, I think that’s what’s confusing me, because there still isn’t an LOD model, and I was of the understanding that ENB light does not work with regular LOD anyway, so I would assume there is no matching model to select VWD for in that case (though I appear to be wrong). Hopefully I am voicing my confusion without sounding dense? Again, I apologize if I am grasping this slowly, I just want to make sure I fully understand your instructions, so that I do not  have to bother you again with it in the future 

 

Thank you

A LOD model is matched to the full model by filename. If it matches visually or doesn't is irrelevant. A rule without VWD flag set will simply be not applied in this case. 

If there is no LOD model matched to the full model by filename, then the VWD flag should not be set for the rule to take effect.

[EazyH]

3 hours ago, sheson said:

A LOD model is matched to the full model by filename. If it matches visually or doesn't is irrelevant. A rule without VWD flag set will simply be not applied in this case. 

If there is no LOD model matched to the full model by filename, then the VWD flag should not be set for the rule to take effect.

OK I think I’m grasping what you’re saying now. Basically you mean if it would have LOD in vanilla by default, matching up w/ a default LOD model (azura, mehrunes, boethiah, Meridia, malacath(?), etc) then that’s when it needs to have the VWD flag, whether it has a matching mesh model or not? As opposed to something like the Hermaeus Mora statue, which does not have a default LOD model and should not have a VWD flag (removing the flag did get this one working for example).

 

slightly related, the ENB light azura mod author dropped an update w/ new DynDOLOD rules and an— interesting setup in the esp, complete with a low poly LOD model. They added new rules none, none, Level 2, none, VWD, farLOD… should this still work as intended…? (Sorry if this is vague for you without seeing the ESP. They essentially set the actual static to have isfullLOD, persistent, etc , and seemingly have the mesh placed as persistent AND temporary. Not sure if this will work as intended how it’s currently set up, but then again I imagine he’s tested?)

Edited January 4, 2023 by EazyH