Ukraine, hold tight in there!

[rootsrat]

I'm not sure if you're aware what's going on in Ukraine at the moment, but I am quite upset about it. Cut the long story short, Ukrainian government voted against joining EU, hundreds of thousands of people went out on the streets in protests. Then, Russia lowered gas prices for Ukraine and paid up some money to the government, so that they keep the decision and stick to Russia. 

 

There were clashes with the police, people died. They used real bullets instead of rubber ones. Against the law. The law was QUICKLY changed, on ad-hoc basis, to allow for usage of water cannons in below-zero-Celsius temperature (it was forbidden before). Special police forces called Berkut are kidnapping injured activists from hospitals, right from their beds, in front of shocked and terrorised doctors and nurses, taking them outside the city to secluded areas, breaking their limbs and leaving them naked in the freezing and snow. Some died. Some were inhumanly humiliated. Those special forces are filming it with their cellphones and uploading to YouTube for fun.

 

It's unbelieveable that things like that can happen in a democratic, civilised country.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims.

 

HOLD TIGHT IN THERE, UKRAINE!

[torminater]

And the rest of the world stands and watches, as usual.

 

 

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[SSL]

I'm not sure what rest of the world is supposed to do, to be honest. Ask USA to deploy democracy there? Embargoes or something would be a idea, but they IMHO would strike more normal ukrainian people, not government. The situation is even worse when you wish UA wouldn't be in EU (I know I would rather not be -- I am). I'm not saying it needs to bed with Russia, but it should be independent form both... Cluster****

[rootsrat]

Yeah, I agree with SSL partially, about the fact that there isn't much that the world can do, YET.

 

However, it isn't about the the decision if they should or shouldn't be in EU. It's all about the fact that the democratically elected government is allowing for brutal and totally NOT democratic, inhuman means to solve the conflict, changing the law on an ad hoc basis. That's what's worrying. If they continue to do so, then the world, maybe UN, certainly SHOULD react in some way, otherwise the slaughter will continue.

 

Looking at the Syrian civil war escalation, and what the lack of reaction from the UN (the world, basically) led to (i.e. total chaos in which it's no longer possible to tell who the good guys are), that's not going to happen.

 

This makes other countries partially responsible, in a way. Not the civilians, the ordinary people, you and me, but the governing bodies, the UN council etc.

 

That's also what worries me a lot, that there is a "go ahead" for this kind of actions of governments against its people from the rest of the world, and no one's bothered, maybe apart from human right organisations, but they can't do much about it apart from raising awareness.

 

The people that pull the strings need to learn emotional intelligence and empathy.

[Aiyen]

The main issue is that many countries in the world, do the same, or worse on a smaller scale.

In general Russia, and China are against any operation that means overthrowing governments due to democratic issues, since if they first start to go down that road, it will mean massive issues in their own countries. (How can they support changes abroad that they cannot support at home.)

 

Also there is the issue of sovereignty... if the UN just interferes every time a local government is not democratic etc. then that effectively means that the UN is the government! Since they decide what goes and what does not. And there are just too many ideological differences still for any to accept that sort of thing to happen.

 

Lastly.... democracy is all well and good.. but it really does break down when you have a near 50% division on a major topic... add on cultural and religious differences on top and democracy just wont work, since it is so easy to cause conflicts.

[PioneerRaptor]

I don't think he's saying anything about someone forcing Democracy. What he's saying is that the Ukraine is already a Democracy (their actually a form of Republic) and yet they are doing very non-democratic things to quell an uprising.

[z929669]

I am not at all surprised. I am also angered at Russia's (and Ukraine gov't's) behaviors (see Syria) ... but it is predictable and typical. Ukraine people need to revolt and bleed for their freedom, and if they win, it will still not last, because even democratic societies are devils in disguise, and rotten apples from the ranks of the populace or the assisting factions will have the most ambition to rise up and rebuild the whole mess all over again under a different banner.

 

Russia is a piggish brute, but the US is an aristocratic pig itself. And most other governments of the world are no better and equally corrupt as the worlds superpowers. They care only about money and power. Their people are nothing more than a vehicle to that end.

 

Maybe only 10% of humanity is truly human (less?). The rest of humanity are pigs waiting to take the place of the ones that ought to be ousted.

 

That which drives one to take up the mantle of leadership and power is that which disqualifies one as human enough to be allowed to do so. It is a stupid game that we must all play and deal with ... unfortunately for those of us who are truly human.

[EssArrBee]

They've come a long way since the Orange Revolution. Time to get some fresh faces in the opposition party over there. Not sure Tymoshenko is the person lead the Ukraine into the EU. I would mind seeing another change in the eastern block countries.

 

 

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[torminater]

Klitschko is my favorite politician in Eastern Europe.

 

 

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[SSL]

Yeah, I agree with SSL partially, about the fact that there isn't much that the world can do, YET.

 

However, it isn't about the the decision if they should or shouldn't be in EU. It's all about the fact that the democratically elected government is allowing for brutal and totally NOT democratic, inhuman means to solve the conflict, changing the law on an ad hoc basis. That's what's worrying. If they continue to do so, then the world, maybe UN, certainly SHOULD react in some way, otherwise the slaughter will continue.

 

Looking at the Syrian civil war escalation, and what the lack of reaction from the UN (the world, basically) led to (i.e. total chaos in which it's no longer possible to tell who the good guys are), that's not going to happen.

 

This makes other countries partially responsible, in a way. Not the civilians, the ordinary people, you and me, but the governing bodies, the UN council etc.

 

That's also what worries me a lot, that there is a "go ahead" for this kind of actions of governments against its people from the rest of the world, and no one's bothered, maybe apart from human right organisations, but they can't do much about it apart from raising awareness.

 

The people that pull the strings need to learn emotional intelligence and empathy.

Yes, I agree. I've talked about EU vs Russia stuff, since it was, more or the less, root (pun not intended) of this situation, but you are completely right. I've just thought this was obvious. Breaking people's legs...