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Improvements for mods, rules, LOD models


Jonado

Question

Hi! I'm having a couple of DynDOLOD related issues. To begin with, I am using both Legacy of the Dragonborn and Drengin's Blue Palace (+appropriate patches), and the terrace looks like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3h967n3ako2vxvqjqrfxr/20240114225455_1.jpg

It looks like the custom rules for Legacy of the Dragonborn don't respect other mods adding references to that area. I can resolve it manually, but would be convenient if this could be fixed in the generation already.

Another thing that I have been struggling with for quite some time is some objects in Windhelm that don't have LOD, despite that I am setting them as "Visible when distant". So when looking towards the city, there is just a gap and a floating platform where the buildings were supposed to be. The following screenshots show what it looks like in summer with Seasonal Landscapes - Unfrozen, but it is the same also during other seasons:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gw1jk21frpjsww3ld2qlz/20240114232151_1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ymk959o05ndsjpbdx0anm/20240114232424_1.jpg

The logs can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ef90b9t3zloufid6620xn/Logs.7z

I hope you can help.

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On 1/15/2024 at 7:48 AM, sheson said:

The links ask me to sign up for an account.

Setting the WD flag is irrelevant. https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Something-does-not-have-LOD

See https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules to learn how rules work.

Sorry, it looks like I screwed up the links (not too easy to notice if being logged in myself). Sometimes it would have been easier if one could simply attach files to the post, but I was not able to get that to work. These links should work:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3h967n3ako2vxvqjqrfxr/20240114225455_1.jpg?rlkey=x2rrnffhyk2x5f5ckl69si8z6&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gw1jk21frpjsww3ld2qlz/20240114232151_1.jpg?rlkey=anj0c2b8djokvia8z30qj5uxa&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ymk959o05ndsjpbdx0anm/20240114232424_1.jpg?rlkey=e3055kdolpxnt3v3aty2nno1e&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ef90b9t3zloufid6620xn/Logs.7z?rlkey=nnt7uh9ohtanmkzlqktnsttdx&dl=0

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The last plugin to modify that reference is BluePalaceTerrace-LegacyOfTheDragonborn-Patch.esp, which can be found here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/37276

As for the missing LOD model, I had a look at the object LOD meshes in Windhelm and noticed that it was certainly not only that model that is missing LOD! I think the author of Capital Windhelm Expansion has been quite sloppy with assigning LOD to his models, and now he is no longer around. I don't have the necessary competence to create new LOD models, so that is not an option for me. I did read that you are taking requests, though, so I would ask you if you could consider supporting the following meshes:

Vanilla meshes that need LOD assigned to them for mod use:

For Capital Windhelm Expansion:
architecture/windhelm/wharenaext.nif (use lod/windhelmsurjamte/newwharena_lod.nif found at the Capital Windhelm mod page)
Architecture/Windhelm/WHfreewall01.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHwallharald.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHwallolaf.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHprisonwall0x.nif (where x=2-4, 6-7)
Clutter/Helgen/HelgenMud01.nif
Dungeons/Nordic/Clutter/NorSculptureHead01.nif

For Bells of Skyrim:
Architecture/Windhelm/InteriorKits/Castle/WHIntCastleLRoomWallWindow02.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/InteriorKits/Castle/WHIntCastleLRoomDoor01.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/InteriorKits/Castle/WHIntCastleLRoomICorner01.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHdockroof.nif

For JK's Skyrim:
Architecture/Windhelm/WHgate3b.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHvalunstrad13.nif (used standalone, so the full WHvalunstrad_lod mesh will not work)

Capital Windhelm Expansion custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42990):

Can use existing LOD models:
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Experimental/whcenterNoColB2.nif (use whcenter_lod.nif)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/00NewPalaceV3OptCol.nif (use whpalace1_lod_2.nif + glow)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Experimental/StonequarterHousesEditedOpenBack.nif (use whstonequarterhouses01_lod_2.nif + glow)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Experimental/NewGrayQGround.nif (use whgqground_lod.nif)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/windhelmUVTweaks/WHMarketRoofCollsion.nif (use whmarket04_lod_2.nif + glow)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Graveyard/landdead9holenocold.nif (use whlanddead9_lod_0.nif)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/whgrayquarter04redonecol.nif (use whgrayquarter04_lod.nif)

Require new models:
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/MainGraveyard/MainGraveyardV2.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Architecture/NEWSEwindhelmlandfrontComplete.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/MainGraveyard/MainGraveyardBigSnow.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Experimental/ArenaOpenSidev2OnlyFloor.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Dwemer156/whhouseNoBackNoSide.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Dwemer156/whhouseNoBack.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Dwemer156/whhouseNoBackLite.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Architecture/whtempletalosDoorNoCol.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Dwemer156/whhouseFacadeLiteLiter.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/whgrayquarter03RedoneCol.nif (used in places where one can see the facade from far away, so whgrayquarter03_lod.nif is not usable here)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Architecture/whgate3EditCol.nif (also reuse the lod model for the Vanilla model whgate3.nif)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/MainGraveyard/MainGraveyardFlatGraves.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/SurNewPitMainBuildingv2.nif (use same model for the two meshes below as well:)
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Architecture/ArenaExterior.nif
surwindhelmcustommeshes/pit/newpit.nif
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Random/whouterwall6Snow.nif

LOD model exists in the mod, but is faulty:
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/ssawwaterwheelStatic.nif (is rotated 90 degrees on the object LOD mesh, so probably has wrong rotation to begin with)

Open Capital Windhelm custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/68753. Sure, I can reach out to fuzzles myself so he can fix it, but if you are anyway doing this, it should not require much work):
architecture/fuzzles/fzwhouterwall04.nif

Open Cities Skyrim custom meshes (noticed these are missing LOD too; https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/files/file/1905-open-cities-skyrim/):
Arthmoor/Oblivion Gates/OBGndCluster01a.nif
Arthmoor/Oblivion Gates/OBGateHalf01a.nif
Arthmoor/Oblivion Gates/OBGateHalf01a.nif
Arthmoor/Oblivion Gates/OBGateFull01a.nif

Bells of Skyrim custom meshes (this one is in Whiterun, which I have not looked closely at yet, but it will also need LOD; https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10495):
_verm_bos_wrscafguardtowerlarge01_nocenter.nif

Seasonal Landscapes Unfrozen custom meshes for Capital Windhelm Expansion (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/71967):
SurWindhelmCustomMeshes/Random/whouterwall6Snow_NoSnow.nif (needs custom LOD mesh without the snow)

And this is just for Windhelm. But at least none of the other cities seems to have nearly the same number of LOD issues. Thanks in advance!

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12 hours ago, Jonado said:

The last plugin to modify that reference is BluePalaceTerrace-LegacyOfTheDragonborn-Patch.esp, which can be found here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/37276

As for the missing LOD model, I had a look at the object LOD meshes in Windhelm and noticed that it was certainly not only that model that is missing LOD! I think the author of Capital Windhelm Expansion has been quite sloppy with assigning LOD to his models, and now he is no longer around. I don't have the necessary competence to create new LOD models, so that is not an option for me. I did read that you are taking requests, though, so I would ask you if you could consider supporting the following meshes:

Vanilla meshes that need LOD assigned to them for mod use:

For Capital Windhelm Expansion:
architecture/windhelm/wharenaext.nif (use lod/windhelmsurjamte/newwharena_lod.nif found at the Capital Windhelm mod page)
Architecture/Windhelm/WHfreewall01.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHwallharald.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHwallolaf.nif
Architecture/Windhelm/WHprisonwall0x.nif (where x=2-4, 6-7)
Clutter/Helgen/HelgenMud01.nif
Dungeons/Nordic/Clutter/NorSculptureHead01.nif

The BluePalaceTerrace-LegacyOfTheDragonborn-Patch.esp will be fixed in the next alpha version.

I will look at the other mods when I find the time. If a LOD model does not exist or would take a lot of work to create, mesh mask rules to use the full model can be created. I  will probably add both for some of these mods in the future.

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9 hours ago, sheson said:

The BluePalaceTerrace-LegacyOfTheDragonborn-Patch.esp will be fixed in the next alpha version.

I will look at the other mods when I find the time. If a LOD model does not exist or would take a lot of work to create, mesh mask rules to use the full model can be created. I  will probably add both for some of these mods in the future.

Thanks!

A bit more information: I think part of the LOD issues I have experienced are due to some large references being removed by Open Capital Windhelm, and the replacements not having their LOD updated. One such example is ArenaExterior.nif, which is also used as a full LOD model in the original mod. The Open Cities version instead only uses newpit.nif and SurNewPitMainBuildingv2.nif, which do not have LOD models. Looking at it more closely, there are notable differences between the models, so they may need different LOD models after all (but newpit.nif and ArenaOpenSidev2OnlyFloor.nif can probably be combined into a single LOD model).

Regardless, the root cause is still that a lot of Capital Windhelm Expansion's meshes are missing LOD, and this should be noticeable also if only using the base mod. So I think these issues should be addressed anyway.

It also looks like I forgot to mention that these three meshes can all use the same LOD model: whhouseNoBackNoSide.nif, whhouseNoBack.nif, and whhouseNoBackLite.nif.

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I also noticed another mod that definitely needs better LOD support, and that is Seasonal Landscapes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/66903). None of the new architecture meshes that does not have custom rules defined in the esp file get LOD in game. This is most noticeable in Whiterun, where I noticed that TexGen provides the LOD textures for summer, but they are not actually used in game. The winter models would need new textures as well. I could fix this myself, but I think it deserves to be shipped with the DynDOLOD resources to reach a wider audience.

More specifically, this affects essentially every mesh in the architecture/ folder that matches regular models with LOD. Some models could definitely use the same model as the corresponding Vanilla meshes, others need a texture swap.

One more thing I noticed is that a couple of meshes from Capital Whiterun expansion are missing LOD (as well as corresponding models in the Seasonal Landscapes patch at that mod's page), but I need to check which ones. I don't have time now, but can provide a list in a couple of days (it should not be very long).

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On 1/17/2024 at 3:16 AM, Jonado said:

And this is just for Windhelm. But at least none of the other cities seems to have nearly the same number of LOD issues. Thanks in advance!

Next round of meshes missing LOD. This is what I found in the other cities:

Vanilla meshes that IMO should have LOD regardless of mod setup:

Architecture\Riften\RTMercerDeckF01.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTMjollDeck01.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTMjollDeck02.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTPlayerHouseDeck01.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTSnowShodDeck01.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTSnowShodDeck02.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRBuildings\WRStablePlatEnd01.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRBuildings\WRStablePlatStr01.nif
Architecture\Markarth\MrkDwemerRuinsEntr01.nif
Architecture\Solitude\SBluePalaceGate.nif (especially with e.g. Solitude Docks)

Vanilla meshes that need LOD for mod use:

Riften Extension:
Architecture\Sovengarde\SovngardeInterior\SOVintPlatformCor02.nif
Architecture\Farmhouse\Interior\FarmIntLHFirePit01.nif

JK's Skyrim / JK's Interiors:
LoadScreenArt\LoadScreenStatueYsgramor.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRBuildings\WRBridge01.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRTerrain\WRBridgeStone01.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRTerrain\WRPondStairs02.nif
Architecture\Markarth\MrkFrontWALLintBldg01b.nif
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRInteriors\WRCastle\WRIntCastleHerbRack01.nif

Dawn of Skyrim:
Clutter\SteamCenturionStatic.nif
DLC02\Dungeons\Dwemer\Clutter\DweAstrolabeModel01.nif

Capital Whiterun Expansion:
Architecture\WhiteRun\WRInteriors\WRDungeon\WRDunIntWallfreeArch01.nif

Sky City:
clutter\statues\ElderStatue\ElderStatue.nif

RedBag's Solitude:
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMdFFloCell01.nif
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMDDFloSol02.nif
Landscape\Rocks\RockM03.nif

Solitude Docks:
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMdERofCap01.nif
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMdEWalSol04.nif

Capital Whiterun Expansion custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/37982):

Can potentially use Vanilla LOD models:
SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\Comp1Original.nif, SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\Comp2SkyUp.nif, SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\Comp3Main.nif, SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\Comp4SkyDn.nif (these combined might be able to use wrcompanionbase01_lod_2.nif)
SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\NewShack02Blackv2.nif (use wrhouseshack02_lod.nif + glow and other LOD levels)
SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\wrwalltierdivide01NoCol.nif (use wrwalltierdivide01_lod.nif + other LOD levels)
SurWhiterunMeshes\MoreStuffByMe\wrcarlottaplatform01Open.nif (use wrcarlottaplatform01_lod_2.nif)
SurWhiterunMeshes\wrwalltowerfree01ShittyUVFix.nif (use wrwalltowerfree01_lod.nif + other LOD levels)

Require new models (sometimes a retexture is enough):
SurWhiterunMeshes\BuildingsByMe\NewShack01Stone.nif
SurWhiterunMeshes\dwemer156\WayshrineRooftopNEW.nif (could share LOD mesh with the one below)
SurWhiterunMeshes\dwemer156\wayshrinerooftopnewXtraV2.nif
SurWhiterunMeshes\dwemer156\WayshrineWallTowerNEWLitev2.nif
SurWhiterunMeshes\dwemer156\wayshrineflattnedbv4.nif (could share LOD mesh with the one below)
SurWhiterunMeshes\dwemer156\WayshrineFlattnedb.nif

RedBag's Solitude custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42052; these all need new models, but are mostly chopped-up Vanilla meshes):
RBSolitudeMeshes\RBModsblacksmithGround.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\RBModsevette san house02.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\RBModsmuseleumDomeless.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\TileFloor01.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\TownWallLong.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\TownWallLong02.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\TownWallSmallEntrance.nif
RBSolitudeMeshes\GrassMesh0x.nif (x=1-8)

Solitude Docks custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/33777; these are probably from some modder's resource, but I haven't figured out where):
Ships\ImperialShip01Base.nif
Ships\ImperialShip01Masts.nif

JK's The Bards College custom meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/71054):

XJK BardCollMeshes\XJKBardCollsbardscollege.nif (use sbardscollege_lod.nif + glow and other LOD levels)
XJK BardCollMeshes\XJJKBardCollsfarmshed01.nif (use sfarmshed01_lod_0.nif)

Regarding Seasonal Landscapes, apart from creating new LOD models, the following ones are currently using the Vanilla models, but need to be overridden with a texture swap. I fixed it myself for three of them and may do the fourth one as well, but I was not able to compress the textures, so they use unnecessarily much VRAM. Thus, it would be good to include these in DynDOLOD:
Architecture\Riften\RTLandC01SUM.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTLandL01SUM.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTLandR01SUM.nif
Architecture\Riften\RTTemplePlazaLand01SUM.nif

Edited by Jonado
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For Seasonal Landscapes - Unfrozen (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/71967), there are six meshes that need LOD fixes:

Architecture\Windhelm\WHlandfront2WIN.nif (missing LOD)
Architecture\Windhelm\WHlandfront3WIN.nif (missing LOD)
Architecture\Winterhold\WinterholdExtCenter01SUM.nif (uses a LOD mesh with mismatched texture, so needs a new mesh)
DLC02\Architecture\SkaalVillage\DLC2SkaalVilFishHut01SUM.nif (mismatched texture)
DLC02\Architecture\SkaalVillage\DLC2SkaalVilGreathall01SUM.nif (mismatched texture)
DLC02\Architecture\SkaalVillage\DLC2SkaalVilShack02altSUM.nif (mismatched texture)

My fixes for the four latter ones can be found here (in the resource files): https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/90846, but they can probably be improved.

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Yes, that is probably useful. Anyway, I fixed all the Seasonal Landscapes meshes myself, or at least everything that had a corresponding mesh in my data folder. Here is the output: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kzyya4jdylxw2d4kayx1b/Seasonal-Landscapes-LOD.7z?rlkey=bs3katsnrioquz22fchd715p0&dl=0. I also uploaded them to Nexus, but might be more difficult to extract what you want there (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/90846). Oh, and I also fixed the remaining Unfrozen meshes, they are in the optional file at the mod page. Feel free to incorporate them into the DynDOLOD resources. I haven't yet tested using them for DynDOLOD generation, but I think they should be fine (worst case I might have missed something, more likely I have added something without a corresponding mesh from those mods).

I don't think I will attempt the rest.

Edited by Jonado
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I had a look at Markarth with Alpha-167, and found a few more Vanilla meshes that need LOD for the mod list I am using:

For Sky City:
Architecture\Markarth\MrkKeepCanalBridge02.nif
Architecture\Markarth\MrkWallSm01.nif
Dungeons\Dwemer\Clutter\DweClutterPedestal02.nif

For Greater Markarth Expansion:
Architecture\Markarth\MrkFrontWALLintBldg02a.nif

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On 1/19/2024 at 3:06 AM, Jonado said:

RedBag's Solitude:
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMdFFloCell01.nif
Architecture\Solitude\Interiors\SMDDFloSol02.nif
Landscape\Rocks\RockM03.nif

Perhaps I should add that the rock is referring to these specific references:
0xB3A7C~RedBag's Solitude.esp
0x7B2BE~RedBag's Solitude.esp

I also noticed while studying the existing mesh mask rules for RedBag's Solitude that there was a reference to RBSolitudeMeshes\SBluePalaceGate.nif, which does not exist. Perhaps this was intended for the Vanilla object?

Some of the other objects I reported for RedBag's Solitude do have mesh mask rules (but not all of them), so I think there is a bug making them not showing up on the LOD mesh for my mod build. I have a good idea of what is causing it, but will do a bit more testing before reporting it in the main forum.

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Posted (edited)

Could you add the following seasonal textures to Texgen generation too:

slod04.dds -> slod04AUT.dds (replace SGrass01.dds and SGrass01_n.dds with SGrass01AUT.dds and SGrass01AUT_n.dds, respectively, from Seasonal Landscapes)
slod04.dds -> slod04WIN.dds (replace SGrass01.dds and SGrass01_n.dds with Snow01.dds and Snow01_n.dds, respectively)

wrbuildingslod02.dds -> wrbuildingslod02SUM.dds (replace WRFieldGrass01.dds and WRFieldGrass01_n.dds with WRFieldGrass01SUM.dds and WRFieldGrass01SUM_n.dds, from Seasonal Landscapes)
wrbuildingslod02.dds -> wrbuildingslod02WIN.dds (replace WRFieldGrass01.dds and WRFieldGrass01_n.dds with Snow02.dds and Snow02_n.dds, respectively)

sbridgelod.dds -> sbridgelodAUT.dds (replace SClovers01.dds with SClovers01AUT.dds, from Seasonal Landscapes)

 

Edited by Jonado
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6 hours ago, Jonado said:

Could you add the following seasonal textures to Texgen generation too:

slod04.dds -> slod04AUT.dds (replace SGrass01.dds and SGrass01_n.dds with SGrass01AUT.dds and SGrass01AUT_n.dds, respectively, from Seasonal Landscapes)
slod04.dds -> slod04WIN.dds (replace SGrass01.dds and SGrass01_n.dds with Snow01.dds and Snow01_n.dds, respectively)

wrbuildingslod02.dds -> wrbuildingslod02AUT.dds (replace WRFieldGrass01.dds and WRFieldGrass01_n.dds with WRFieldGrass01SUM.dds and WRFieldGrass01SUM_n.dds, from Seasonal Landscapes)
wrbuildingslod02.dds -> wrbuildingslod02WIN.dds (replace WRFieldGrass01.dds and WRFieldGrass01_n.dds with Snow02.dds and Snow02_n.dds, respectively)

sbridgelod.dds -> sbridgelodAUT.dds (replace SClovers01.dds with SClovers01AUT.dds, from Seasonal Landscapes)

There are no LOD models in DynDOLOD Resources using slod04AUT.dds, slod04WIN.dds etc.

Whatever mod contains the custom LOD models using those custom LOD textures should also include updated and appropriately named special models in the data folder of the mod for rendering those textures.

https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen-Configuration#Rendered-Object-LOD-Textures

For example, copy ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Render\Skyrim\Objects\lod\slod04.nif to ..\Data\DynDOLOD\Render\Skyrim\Objects\slod04AUT.nif and then edit the NIF in NifSkope to update the textures paths as needed.

Mod authors can always contact me by any means in order to ask for help how to create proper LOD assets for their mods.

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All those textures except slod04WIN.dds should be used in the Seasonal Landscapes LOD files that I requested to get incorporated into the DynDOLOD resources (check my post from 21 January). The last texture is for other mods I plan to publish in the future. But sure, I can include the relevant rules when publishing the mods. I didn't know how it was done.

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On 3/24/2024 at 8:25 AM, sheson said:

Whatever mod contains the custom LOD models using those custom LOD textures should also include updated and appropriately named special models in the data folder of the mod for rendering those textures.

https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen-Configuration#Rendered-Object-LOD-Textures

For example, copy ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Render\Skyrim\Objects\lod\slod04.nif to ..\Data\DynDOLOD\Render\Skyrim\Objects\slod04AUT.nif and then edit the NIF in NifSkope to update the textures paths as needed.

Mod authors can always contact me by any means in order to ask for help how to create proper LOD assets for their mods.

I don't get this to work. I did as you said (and carefully read the information on the page you linked), yet TexGen is not generating any of the new textures. Is there some extra step needed?

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