DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 196

[sheson]

19 minutes ago, leostevano said:

full logs https://ufile.io/gl4gv8om

What confuses me is I tried to locate that CRC but I cant find it in my load order. But only can be matched in texgen output. CRC name is totally different with what I have.

In my 3d lod folder aspen supposed to be treeaspen01_A0AA818Cpassthru_lod

The 3D LOD model needs to have the CRC32 of the full model in its filename in order to match. https://dyndolod.info/Help/3D-Tree-LOD-Model

The CRC32 of the full model is printed to the tree report. For example:
TreeAspen01 [TREE:0006A9E6] Meshes\landscape\trees\treeaspen01.nif [CRC32:66902659]  ...
Replaced tree, Billboard found, 3D LOD model not found treeaspen01_66902659

The tree report tells you that a 3D LOD model with that CRC32 can not be found.

Billboards use the form id, which would be 0006A9E6 in this example.

[leostevano]

22 minutes ago, sheson said:

The 3D LOD model needs to have the CRC32 of the full model in its filename in order to match. https://dyndolod.info/Help/3D-Tree-LOD-Model

The CRC32 of the full model is printed to the tree report. For example:
TreeAspen01 [TREE:0006A9E6] Meshes\landscape\trees\treeaspen01.nif [CRC32:66902659]  ...
Replaced tree, Billboard found, 3D LOD model not found treeaspen01_66902659

Billboards use the form id, which would be 0006A9E6 in this example.

Okay I managed to generate 3d tree lods using dyndolod.exe alpha 148 test version you sent me about a week ago.

I checked and the CRC matched.

Here's the full logs : https://ufile.io/z79tahqs

[sheson]

31 minutes ago, leostevano said:

Okay I managed to generate 3d tree lods using dyndolod.exe alpha 148 test version you sent me about a week ago.

I checked and the CRC matched.

Here's the full logs : https://ufile.io/z79tahqs

You seem to report that different alpha versions calculate a different CRC32 for the same full model.

Are you certain that you did not change the full models?
Use a 3rd party tool to check the CRC32 of the full model. 7z for example adds a context menu CRC SHA in explorer.
It should always be the same as long as the full model is the same file. Then run DynDOLOD latest version/test version to create a new tree report. It should show the same CRC32 for the same file.

[leostevano]

11 minutes ago, sheson said:

You seem to report that different alpha version calculate a different CRC32 for the same full model.

Are you certain that you did not change the full models?
Use a 3rd party tool to check the CRC32 of the full model. 7z for example adds a context menu CRC SHA in explorer.
It should always be the same as long as the full model is the same file. Then run DynDOLOD latest version/test version to create a new tree report. It should show the same CRC32 for the same file.

I regenerate once more using alpha 149 test, and it succeeded in recognizing the 3d tree lods. No settings was changed.

Its seems the error is in my end somehow. Sorry .

[Mousetick]

DynDOLOD 3a148 / Resources 3a45

Beware I have no idea of what I'm technically talking about so I'm using vague and inappropriate terms.

I'm using a treepineforestbranchcomp texture which has very thin features and is 95% transparent:

In-game shots of (vanilla) full models with this texture and Ultra Tree LODs:

The textures make the full model trees look very "skinny". The tree LODs look less detailed of course though somewhat ok when viewed up close (using free camera), but they look very "blocky" and "lusher" when viewed from normal distance.

I would like to make the HD Tree billboards more "skinny" and less "blocky".

There are 2 settings that I searched for on https://dyndolod.info/ but couldn't find information about:

• TreeMSAlphaThreshold in TexGen_[GAMEMODE].ini

; threshold to convert alpha channel to binary transparency - default is 128
TreeMSAlphaThreshold=96

• TreeLODCreateAverageColor in DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE].ini

; set to 1 to set transparent background of billboards to their average color, requires TreeLODDiffuseFormat with alpha channel like BC2 (DXT3), BC3 (DXT5) or A8R8G8B8
TreeLODCreateAverageColor=1

Would one of these two possibly help yield the results I'm looking for?

Am I trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Full logs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wy5jtgkpjTasYoID4hqTj30oxta0J1w0/view 

[sheson]

1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

DynDOLOD 3a148 / Resources 3a45

Beware I have no idea of what I'm technically talking about so I'm using vague and inappropriate terms.

I'm using a treepineforestbranchcomp texture which has very thin features and is 95% transparent:

In-game shots of (vanilla) full models with this texture and Ultra Tree LODs:

The textures make the full model trees look very "skinny". The tree LODs look less detailed of course though somewhat ok when viewed up close (using free camera), but they look very "blocky" and "lusher" when viewed from normal distance.

I would like to make the HD Tree billboards more "skinny" and less "blocky".

There are 2 settings that I searched for on https://dyndolod.info/ but couldn't find information about:

• TreeMSAlphaThreshold in TexGen_[GAMEMODE].ini

; threshold to convert alpha channel to binary transparency - default is 128
TreeMSAlphaThreshold=96

• TreeLODCreateAverageColor in DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE].ini

; set to 1 to set transparent background of billboards to their average color, requires TreeLODDiffuseFormat with alpha channel like BC2 (DXT3), BC3 (DXT5) or A8R8G8B8
TreeLODCreateAverageColor=1

Would one of these two possibly help yield the results I'm looking for?

Am I trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Full logs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wy5jtgkpjTasYoID4hqTj30oxta0J1w0/view 

See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots how to make useful screenshots of full models with more informative console.

Those seem to be 3D tree LOD models and not billboards. You generated ultra tree LOD with Level0 for LOD level 4.
Are those the vanilla full model trees but with a texture replacer?

See https://dyndolod.info/Help/3D-Tree-LOD-Model and what it explains about the alpha threshold in the 3D tree LOD model to make textures appear thicker/thinner. Change in steps of +- 16.

[Mousetick]

Thanks for your reply.

2 hours ago, sheson said:

Those seem to be 3D tree LOD models and not billboards. You generated ultra tree LOD with Level0 for LOD level 4.
Are those the vanilla full model trees but with a texture replacer?

Yes. That is correct. I warned you I didn't know what I was talking about. That was no joke. Now that I've gotten slightly wiser than previous post I can tell you what was shown in the screenshots are vanilla full models with a texture replacer (Pine Branches Redone), and Ultra Tree LOD Level 4 with 3D tree LOD models from DynDOLOD Resources.

2 hours ago, sheson said:

See https://dyndolod.info/Help/3D-Tree-LOD-Model and what it explains about the alpha threshold in the 3D tree LOD model to make textures appear thicker/thinner. Change in steps of +- 16.

If I'm understanding correctly, this would require editing the 3D tree LOD models from DynDOLOD Resources in NifSkope and adjusting the NiAlphaProperty of the branches, in steps of +/- 16. Is this correct? Should it be increased or decreased in order to make the LOD texture look "thinner" (i.e. more transparent I guess)?

Thanks.

[Lavitz]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:02 AM, sheson said:

Thanks for the complete report. Let me know if this test version fixes it https://mega.nz/file/MAAV3KRD#cPvZoQSvF2ktV80WMfskYmrTjUj3rPdA-2BrnHO-CQk

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Beyond-Skyrim-Bruma is unrelated to this error.

Hey Sheson sorry I was offline for a few days and I think that link when dead, would you mind reposting it please and thank you.

[sheson]

9 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Thanks for your reply.

Yes. That is correct. I warned you I didn't know what I was talking about. That was no joke. Now that I've gotten slightly wiser than previous post I can tell you what was shown in the screenshots are vanilla full models with a texture replacer (Pine Branches Redone), and Ultra Tree LOD Level 4 with 3D tree LOD models from DynDOLOD Resources.

If I'm understanding correctly, this would require editing the 3D tree LOD models from DynDOLOD Resources in NifSkope and adjusting the NiAlphaProperty of the branches, in steps of +/- 16. Is this correct? Should it be increased or decreased in order to make the LOD texture look "thinner" (i.e. more transparent I guess)?

Thanks.

You can see changes in NifSkope. To make it appear thinner lower the threshold.

[sheson]

4 hours ago, Lavitz said:

Hey Sheson sorry I was offline for a few days and I think that link when dead, would you mind reposting it please and thank you.

Use the latest alpha version.

[Mousetick]

5 hours ago, sheson said:

You can see changes in NifSkope. To make it appear thinner lower the threshold.

Good thing you said the changes can be seen in NifSkope. It appears the threshold needs to be increased actually.

When I save an edited 3D tree LOD mesh from DynDOLOD Resources, NifSkope tells me "One or more blocks have had their Name sanitized". Is this going to be a problem?

For example, treepineforest02passthru_lod.nif:

• 9  BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:9'
• 13 BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:13'
• 17 BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:17'

Thanks for your help.

[sheson]

51 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

Good thing you said the changes can be seen in NifSkope. It appears the threshold needs to be increased actually.

When I save an edited 3D tree LOD mesh from DynDOLOD Resources, NifSkope tells me "One or more blocks have had their Name sanitized". Is this going to be a problem?

For example, treepineforest02passthru_lod.nif:

• 9  BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:9'
• 13 BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:13'
• 17 BSTriShape (Name) = 'TreePineForest02_LOD_FLAT:17'

Thanks for your help.

Disable Auto Sanitize before Save in the File menu.

[Mousetick]

I've gotten even wiser and now I understand the 3D tree LOD textures are generated by LODgen, nothing to do with TexGen. Duh!

I initially tried NiAlphaProperty Threshold 112 -> 144, which made a small difference but not enough. So I cranked it up to 176.

Comparison in DynDOLOD_Tamriel.dds atlas: 112 > 176

The 3D tree LOD models from DynDOLOD Resources are quite good by themselves, but the difference in "lushiness" between full model and LOD because of the textures was jarring, especially during LOD -> full model transitions:

LOD on left half, full on right half: Before (112) > After (176)

This is much better, thank you. I may need to crank the threshold up even more, we'll see. I need to apply the same changes to the snowy and ashy variants. And to the aspen trees too, with which I'm using a similarly very thin, very transparent texture replacer.

---

The other hurdle I've been facing is the brightness of the tree LODs. I'm confused by all the options:

• Direct & Ambient lighting settings in TexGen.
• Billboard brightness* setting in DynDOLOD.
• CrownBrightness, TrunkBrightness and FlatTrunkBrightness settings in DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE].ini:

; Vertexcolor multipliers for tree LOD models used in object LOD, see https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD
CrownBrightness=1
TrunkBrightness=1
FlatTrunkBrightness=1

My understanding is that the CrownBrightness, TrunkBrightness, and FlatTrunkBrightness are used exclusively with 3D tree LOD, which is not affected by Billboard brightness. I'm going to try and lower them because I think my Level0 tree LODs look too bright compared to full models.

Conversely Billboard brightness only affects the brightness of Ultra Tree LODs using billboards.

What to do with the TexGen settings, how do they interact/combine with the Ultra Tree LOD Billboard brightness? Should they be left alone, at default, and brightness be adjusted only in DynDOLOD?

* By the way, there is small typo in the tooltip for this setting: "Adjust brighntess of tree LOD billboards [...]"

Thanks.

[sheson]

14 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

I've gotten even wiser and now I understand the 3D tree LOD textures are generated by LODgen, nothing to do with TexGen. Duh!

https://dyndolod.info/Help/LODGen
LODGen is a command line tool that generates terrain LOD and object LOD meshes.

21 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

• Direct & Ambient lighting settings in TexGen.
• Billboard brightness* setting in DynDOLOD.
• CrownBrightness, TrunkBrightness and FlatTrunkBrightness settings in DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE].ini:

; Vertexcolor multipliers for tree LOD models used in object LOD, see https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD
CrownBrightness=1
TrunkBrightness=1
FlatTrunkBrightness=1

My understanding is that the CrownBrightness, TrunkBrightness, and FlatTrunkBrightness are used exclusively with 3D tree LOD, which is not affected by Billboard brightness. I'm going to try and lower them because I think my Level0 tree LODs look too bright compared to full models.

Conversely Billboard brightness only affects the brightness of Ultra Tree LODs using billboards.

What to do with the TexGen settings, how do they interact/combine with the Ultra Tree LOD Billboard brightness? Should they be left alone, at default, and brightness be adjusted only in DynDOLOD?

* By the way, there is small typo in the tooltip for this setting: "Adjust brighntess of tree LOD billboards [...]"

Thanks.

https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen#Grass-HD-Grass-Tree-HD-Tree-Rendered
Tree LOD billboards are required for standard tree LOD generation or ultra tree LOD generation.
HD Tree LOD billboards are for the optional ultra tree LOD generation.
Rendered billboards are for the optional ultra tree LOD generation. They are rendered from special models in the ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Render\Billboards\ folder. They generate trunk textures for hybrid tree LOD models for example.

Use the preview buttons to see.

[Mousetick]

2 hours ago, sheson said:

https://dyndolod.info/Help/LODGen
LODGen is a command line tool that generates terrain LOD and object LOD meshes.

Well this goes to show I'm still very much ignorant.

The pine branches LOD textures found in the DynDOLOD object LOD atlas clearly show they are a downsampled version of the original treepineforestbranchcomp.dds texture, taking into account the NiAlphaProperty threshold of the 3D tree LOD models. I have not run TexGen since one month ago. So they must be generated by something, which is neither TexGen nor LODgen. But what exactly shall remain a mystery. Maybe Texconv during DynDOLOD generation.

treepineforestbranchcomp.dds > DynDOLOD_Tamriel.dds

2 hours ago, sheson said:

https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen#Grass-HD-Grass-Tree-HD-Tree-Rendered
Tree LOD billboards are required for standard tree LOD generation or ultra tree LOD generation.
HD Tree LOD billboards are for the optional ultra tree LOD generation.
Rendered billboards are for the optional ultra tree LOD generation. They are rendered from special models in the ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Render\Billboards\ folder. They generate trunk textures for hybrid tree LOD models for example.

I'm sorry but this doesn't help at all.

I was wondering how the Direct + Ambient lighting settings in TexGen, which indirectly affect brightness, and the Billboard brightness setting in DynDOLOD, affect each other in combination, and how/why one might be used rather than the other.

• https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen:

Quote

Direct, Ambient, Smoothness

These settings change the direct (default from top) and ambient lighting strength for the created diffuse texture and the smoothness of the created normal map textures. Lower numbers mean less light strength = darker.

• https://dyndolod.info/Help/Ultra-Tree-LOD

Quote

Billboard Brightness
Use the Billboard brightness dropdown on the advanced mode in case the tree LOD billboards are too dark or too bright.

 

But it's ok. I appreciate the time and patience you've given me, especially during a week-end. I won't be bothering you any more and wasting your time with "stupid" questions.