STEP and FPS requirements

[moho25]

Just joined these forums today.  Wonderful resource you have here :)

 

I'm remodding my game (finally updating from a 1.4series patch!) and am attempting to use a bit of a modified STEP installation.  I am having difficulties reaching the required framerate of 50 on a very capable system. 

 

Previously, I had Skyrim somewhat heavily modded (maybe 50 .esps, plus another 25-50 texture mods).  In addition I had a moderately tweaked ini, including setting uGrids to 7.  My game was extremely stable and while my frame rates weren't out of this world, I had them capped at 45.  Generally they were usually between 20 and 35.  No issues with stuttering, tearing, etc.

 

FYI, my system: Win764, 8GB RAM, i7 2690QM, GTX 560M (1.5GB DDR5; 306.97 drivers), 1920x1080 screen res; this is a laptop which is always plugged in (no Optimus)

 

Keeping the above in mind I have been trying to achieve the magic 50 fps recommended in STEP, which I can't seem to do.  Strangely, my framerates in the game are ridiculously stable. I've spent the day adjusting settings and I sill can't reach a "solid 50" anywhere -- Riverwood, Whiterun, or on the tundra right outside of Whiterun.

 

I started with a clean Skyrim install (BOSS + skse are present in the folders) + no mods  + DLC High Rez Tex Pack.  To that I did the following:

• added --  tweaked inis (was trying to avoid having to do these over again, so this included uGrids=7)
• GPU settings -- 16x AF, TexFilter=HQ, AO=performance, AA=4x, with 2xSS, vsync=use 3D (set to off in the .ini)
• launcher set up -- AF=disable (running through GPU), AA=4x, detail=ultra, View Distance=all max, Water reflections= all, FXAA=disabled, Object Detail Fade = unchecked, all textures but shadows on ultra (shadow=high)

RESULT -- very stable, GPU temps about 60, CPU temps about 60, RAM=1350MB, FPS=30ish everywhere.

 

So, this was nowhere near 50.  I kept decreasing settings and testing until I finally gave up.  Here is the final batch of settings I tested:

• removed -- DLC High rez Tex pack (so, only clean Skyrim + BOSS/skse; no mods, no DLC pack)
• replaced -- tweaked inis with vanilla inis (so, standard uGrids + everything else)
• GPU settings -- 8x AF, TexFilter=HQ, AO=performance, AA=2x only (no SS), vsync=use3Dapp (vanilla Skyrim settings)
• launcher set up -- AF=disable (running through GPU), AA=2x, detail=medium, View Distance=all at half, Water reflections= all, FXAA=disabled, Object Detail Fade = unchecked, all textures on medium (blur on low)

RESULT -- very stable, GPU temps about 50-56, CPU temps about 50-60, RAM=700-800. FPS=40-53 in Whiterun when standing still, 35-40 when moving; 40-50 outside of Whiterun when still, 35-42 when moving.

 

So, this I just don't get.  By the last settings I tried I had sacrificed a substantial amount of quality, and I'm still not at 50.  Not even close.  Whiterun just LOVES to be 34-36 for me.  I can get 40-50 in certain parts, but generally, it's about 36.  Outside when I run around, it's similar.  Riverwood is also similar.  The biggest difference I see is in RAM usage.  But my frame rates change relatively little.  Basically reverting to a vanilla ini and turning down my graphics substantially netted me 10 fps or less. 

 

I even tried the HighAlgo Boost.  No difference.

 

So, what do you guys recommend?  Should I keep decreasing quality (though I'm not sure I even would want to go any lower than this)? Is there something else I could be missing that is keeping the frame rates in this range? 

 

My computer was handling my previous settings just fine, as I stated, so I guess the real question is: how important is this "50" number if I plan on modding Skyrim more heavily than before -- especially considering I can't get my more than capable computer to reach 50 fps?

[TechAngel85]

I don't know where you came up with 50 FPS being the magic number, but STEP doesn't have any FPS requirement. Typically anything consistently over 30 FPS is good. As long as you're happy with it and you're not getting any stutter then play away at whatever framerate you like. I'm getting ~30-35 FPS myself.

[moho25]

It's in the PDF.

 

Quote:

 

"1.B.2. Establish Baseline Vanilla Performance

Fine-tune and test settings; remember to create save games in populated areas such as

Riverwood and Whiterun to use as staging areas for screenshots and FPS comparison. Save this

data for later comparison after each stage of tuning later in this guide. This is an important step, as

THIS IS THE BASELINE VANILLA SETUP! If there is not a minimum of 50 FPS in all areas, then

reduce Launcher settings accordingly, as forthcoming adjustments and mods will tax performance

substantially, depending on choices made. For more comprehensive instructions, visit the Mod

Testing Guide."

[ciddative]

TheCompiler responded to that a little while back, saying something along the lines of "don't take it word for word". In essence I just think it means, make sure your performance is smooth and stable before modding, as it's goi9ng to takea possibly-hefty hit after everything's installed. From your descriptions, with the right decisions regarding performace and options, you should be totally fine :)

[rootsrat]

I don't know where you came up with 50 FPS being the magic number but STEP doesn't have any FPS requirement. Typically anything consistently over 30 FPS is good. As long as you're happy with it and you're not getting any stutter then play away at whatever framerate you like. I'm getting ~30-35 FPS myself.

This is from the latest official STEP release, i.e. 2.2.0.

 

1.B.2. Establish Baseline Vanilla Performance

 

Fine-tune and test settings; remember to create save games in populated areas such as Riverwood and Whiterun to use as staging areas for screenshots and FPS comparison. Save this data for later comparison after each stage of tuning later in this guide. This is an important step, as THIS IS THE BASELINE VANILLA SETUP! If there is not a minimum of 50 FPS in all areas, then reduce Launcher settings accordingly, as forthcoming adjustments and mods will tax performance substantially, depending on choices made. For more comprehensive instructions, visit the Mod Testing Guide.

1.C.

This section is currently not included in 2.2.1 WIP Wiki page.

 

 

::EDIT::

 

Seems like a few people were posting at the same time :)

[moho25]

@ciddative -- Well, jeez. Considering it was prefaced by ALL CAPS, and it said "minimum of 50", I figured the author was pretty serious about what they meant. I had "smooth" and "stable" about 8 hours ago. Grrr.

[moho25]

@rootsrat -- So is the website more recently updated or the PDF?

[MontyMM]

I think this is a good catch, I'd recommend this to be reworded. If it's missing from the WIP version it might have been deliberately removed. I think things will be much tidier once there is a new stable version up on the wiki.

[rootsrat]

@rootsrat -- So is the website more recently updated or the PDF?

Wiki page of 2.2.1 is still Work In Progress and contains more recent updates, however bear in mind it is WIP. Current official release is 2.2.0a - i.e. the PDF version you have.

[moho25]

@rootsrat -- So is the website more recently updated or the PDF?

Wiki page of 2.2.1 is still Work In Progress and contains more recent updates, however bear in mind it is WIP. Current official release is 2.2.0a - i.e. the PDF version you have.

Ok, so despite the strength of the wording in the PDF, am I taking this too literally?  Is a vanilla fps of 50 no longer considered necessary, as long as the game is stable and running at a "reasonable" frame rate prior to modding?

[MontyMM]

Ok, so despite the strength of the wording in the PDF, am I taking this too literally?  Is a vanilla fps of 50 no longer considered necessary, as long as the game is stable and running at a "reasonable" frame rate prior to modding?

I'd say so.  It's only a rough figure he's suggested, because STEP is very likely to drive your frame rate down.  But of course it doesn't really matter at all - the frame rate you have when you've finished is the one to worry about. You'll have to experiment.  It may be that some factor is capping out your FPS around 30FPS in all conditions, but your system might still have the power to run STEP well.  That would be unusual though...

[TechAngel85]

 

@rootsrat -- So is the website more recently updated or the PDF?

Wiki page of 2.2.1 is still Work In Progress and contains more recent updates, however bear in mind it is WIP. Current official release is 2.2.0a - i.e. the PDF version you have.

Ok, so despite the strength of the wording in the PDF, am I taking this too literally?  Is a vanilla fps of 50 no longer considered necessary, as long as the game is stable and running at a "reasonable" frame rate prior to modding?

This is correct and this wording was removed from the 2.2.1 guide. The next release is being tested in-game now and it's fairly locked down if you want to use it but don't post Troubleshooting threads asking for help if you do. It's been established that these threads will be ignored until the 2.2.1 release is official. Keep in mind that 2.2.1 is a work in progress and as such some things could change at any time.

[moho25]

Ok, well, vanilla frame rates aside, does anyone have any additional insights why the ample adjustments I made seemed to make relatively little difference?

 

Vsync is enabled in the vanilla inis by default, so my framerate would have capped out at 60 anyway. However, to me it's very surprising that I saw a *consistent* increase of only about 5-8 fps from the 1st scenario to the 2nd scenario I gave. It would jump up higher, but only when standing still, looking at a wall, the sky, etc.

 

I have no doubt that my system can "handle" a STEP installation and then some...because I was running more intense setup (with ENB, no less) previously. I was just attempting to work more off of the STEP installation this time, and was pretty shocked when I couldn't get my computer to hit this basic parameter.

[TechAngel85]

Ok, well, vanilla frame rates aside, does anyone have any additional insights why the ample adjustments I made seemed to make relatively little difference?

 

Vync is enabled in the vanilla ini's by default, so my framerate would have capped out at 60 anyway. However, to me it's very surprising that I saw a *consistent* increase of only about 5-8 fps from the 1st scenario to the 2nd scenario I gave. It would jump up higher, but only when standing still, looking at a wall, the sky, etc.

 

I have no doubt that my system can "handle" a STEP installation and then some...because I was running more intense setup (with ENB, no less) previously. I was just attempting to work more off of the STEP installation this time, and was pretty shocked when I couldn't get my computer to hit this basic parameter.

No insight really, but I will tell you that the 2.2.1 version will be a bit more taxing than 2.2.0a. In 2.2.0a I was getting an average of around 35 FPS. With 2.2.1, it's closer to 30 FPS on the same hardware and setup.

[z929669]

Ok, well, vanilla frame rates aside, does anyone have any additional insights why the ample adjustments I made seemed to make relatively little difference?

 

Vsync is enabled in the vanilla inis by default, so my framerate would have capped out at 60 anyway. However, to me it's very surprising that I saw a *consistent* increase of only about 5-8 fps from the 1st scenario to the 2nd scenario I gave. It would jump up higher, but only when standing still, looking at a wall, the sky, etc.

 

I have no doubt that my system can "handle" a STEP installation and then some...because I was running more intense setup (with ENB, no less) previously. I was just attempting to work more off of the STEP installation this time, and was pretty shocked when I couldn't get my computer to hit this basic parameter.

To really affect frame rates (rather than VRAM), you need to lower your shadows or back down certain other INI settings. The piece in the current guide RE 50 FPS is basically saying that ...

 

"If you are not at near or above 50 FPS at this point, begin backing down some of the INI settings we just recommended"

 

This would have come just before mod installation, and is a very important time to reflect upon and record before going ahead and modding the hell out of the game. Otherwise, you will have no clear idea of your performance change, given no reference point.

;)

[moho25]

Ok, well, vanilla frame rates aside, does anyone have any additional insights why the ample adjustments I made seemed to make relatively little difference?

 

Vsync is enabled in the vanilla inis by default, so my framerate would have capped out at 60 anyway. However, to me it's very surprising that I saw a *consistent* increase of only about 5-8 fps from the 1st scenario to the 2nd scenario I gave. It would jump up higher, but only when standing still, looking at a wall, the sky, etc.

 

I have no doubt that my system can "handle" a STEP installation and then some...because I was running more intense setup (with ENB, no less) previously. I was just attempting to work more off of the STEP installation this time, and was pretty shocked when I couldn't get my computer to hit this basic parameter.

To really affect frame rates (rather than VRAM), you need to lower your shadows or back down certain other INI settings. The piece in the current guide RE 50 FPS is basically saying that ...

 

"If you are not at near or above 50 FPS at this point, begin backing down some of the INI settings we just recommended"

 

This would have come just before mod installation, and is a very important time to reflect upon and record before going ahead and modding the hell out of the game. Otherwise, you will have no clear idea of your performance change, given no reference point.

;)

And that is the kicker.  As I stated in my original post, the second batch of framerates I cited is: without mods, with vanilla inis, and with game and GPU settings lowered substantially from what even the game wants to automatically set them to. This is my reference point, though, yes, I went in reverse a bit.

 

It doesn't change the results, however, which is that with vanilla inis, lowered GPU & game settings, and no mods or HighRez tex pack, I can't achieve a sustained 40 fps (nevermind 50) when moving in or around Whiterun.  This is despite using a machine that is more than capable, and has run a fully modded Skyrim accompanied by ENB smoothly with 30ish frame rates in the past. 

 

It just doesn't make much sense that I don't see a drastic frame rate increase when running a vanilla game.