Black Circles, z-fighting and texture shimmering

[torminater]

NEW UPDATE:

I have tried the Skyrim Special Edition, and there seems to be no more z-fighting for me. As if that is linked to the fixes towards the shadow processing or has something to do with the new 64bit engine, I cannot say for sure. If you have further insight, please share below.

 

OLD post:

I am still working on my fix, as it does not solve all of the z-fighting and there is a performance drop of about 0-8 FPS. Further testing is therefore welcomed!
For the original little fix head over here !

For the guide (WIP) against z-fighting head over here !


Hey folks,
at the moment I'm fiddeling around with nvidia inspector, skyrim ini and prefs to get rid of black circles on mid-distant terrain, reduce z-fighting as much as possible and eliminate texture shimmering if possible.
I don't remember if z-fighting has been such a big problem for me before the last drivers update, but now it really gets on my case. It's only visible on very distant mountain sides but in a large area. The good thing is, if it's cloudy I don't notice it as much. The bad thing is, if it's sunny all of the great graphics cannot overshine the flashing mountains in the Background.
Texture shimmering is annoying but it's on the very end of my 2dolist.
What annoys me know the most is this black circles glitch. I just can't find the setting that causes me all that trouble.
It is very prominent and extremely disturbing. Reading through this forum I stumbled upon a lot of threads that were highly interesting and revealed that there are a whole lot of bright minds around.
I guess if STEP tries to make Skyrim an unforgettable experience, then it should include some details about very common bugs and glitches as those three I'm referring to. If anyone of you guys knows any tricks considering them I would be too glad to try them out!
I have had problems with artifacts probably caused by too much graphic mods and ini tweaks (no ugrids changes whatsoever...)
My rig is the following:
Crucial m4 SSD 128GB, 2.5"
Samsung EcoGreen F4 1500GB
Intel Core i7-2600K, 4x 3.40GHz
Kingston ValueRAM DIMM Kit 8GB
2 x Gainward GeForce GTX 570 Phantom, 1.25GB GDDR5 SLI
ASRock P67 Extreme4
Corsair Professional Series Gold AX750 750W
All drivers are absolutely up2date. By all means I should be able to run Skyrim without problems. So far that doesn't work out...
EDIT: Those Black Circles seem only to pop up in the lower half of the screen o_O but somewhat diagonal... maybe cuz of the Sun angle?
I found out how to remove them:
fShadowBiasScale=0.1500 revert to fShadowBiasScale=0.2500 in SkyrimPrefs.ini
There are still black stripes on some rocks and mountainsides. they disappear from the center the closer you come...

[torminater]

I'm actually more interested into the other value...

but thanks for the info.

 

i made several testing videos activating several z-fighting tweaks. I'm going to gather as much output as I can asap.

[torminater]

Ok, i researched the new DNA-based ini's and compared them with my old tweaked ini's and found out that:

compared to vanilla:

-> my DNA-ini-config z-fighting looks BETTER in game

-> my DNA-ini-config DECREASES z-fighting on distant LOD's

-> my DNA-ini-config seems to make the air a bit foggier which reduces z-fighting, too. Gotta find that setting.

 

compared to my own tweaked ini:

-> my DNA-ini-config z-fighting looks BETTER than my tweaked vanilla config

-> My tweaked vanilla config DECREASES z-fighting MORE than the DNA-ini-config

-> My tweaked vanilla config keeps distant clouds rendered and the air stays less foggy/misty, so the distant detail is greater

-> my DNA-ini-config ELIMINATES distant clouds and makes the air look foggier/mistier, so the distant detail is less

 

 

Quite interesting, isn't it?

I used the script dragon weather script to find my self a setting that allows me to remove all clouds and all mist to check out how much z-fighting gets reduced.

So, I guess I'll have to make a thorough search for that holy grail hidden in these parameters!!! If I can implement the DNA-generated tweak to my Vanilla tweaked ini it might be possible to keep distant detail AND decrease z-fighting even further. OR, I can only isolate and implement the DNA-generated tweak that makes the weather less clear to see, and then tweak the ini to perfection.

[bitdman]

Can the texture shimmering or Zfighting causes, effect the map with the mod 'Qualty Maps with all roads'?

I think I have seen areas of fliker when accessing the map. It's so quick though if I blink at just the right time, I could miss it.

I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this. Sorry if it's not.

[bitdman]

there's already a z-fighting thread. But yeah of course z-fighting affects high-res map textures as well. you're very lucky if it's only merely noticeable for you as for me it's unbearable.

 

Thank you! I wasn't certain.

[blacksol]

I thought the quote below came from this forum but perhaps it was another one (couldn't find it when searched for "LOD"), or it was on a webpage about LOD Bias that was linked from a post on here:

However, if you apply too aggressive a LOD Bias, you will notice artifacts, namely that of texture aliasing. Texture aliasing is perceived (i.e. actually witnessed on screen) differently than that of what many folks may notice more immediately and that is the jagged edges which is simply explained as when two textures of contrasting colors meet at angles that are not perfectly horizontal or vertical resulting in "discontinuity of a straight line". Texture aliasing occurs within a particular texture(s) itself. If/When this occurs, and can be be seen visually, you will see pixels within any one particular texture seemingly "move" as your point-of-view changes. It is perhaps simplistically explained as "If you see anything (that should be absolutely static that you're looking at) actuallymoving when they shouldn't be even when you are in motion, that's texture aliasing".

 

Anyway I changed negative LOD Bias from -0.250 in nvidia inspector to 0.000 and had the following benefits:

- Spinning logo main menu screen no longer had texture shimmer on logo and no longer stuttered when eg choosing which save to load (before it would momentarily freeze when mouse moved from one save game to another)

- texture shimmer in game reduced in short testing no more shimmer inside breezehome

- but still had texture shimmer (or z fighting?) with snow dusting on mountain rocks near Falkreath, first time there so not sure if better or worse.

So I will not use LOD tweak - any others have these type of issues?

[MadWizard25]

I recently tested out a 0 value for the lod bias (was uysing -.25), and had no effect on z-fighting that i can tell. Close of texture shimmer was reduced however. I have now settled for -.125 lod value.

[torminater]

What might help additionally is setting negative LOD bias to clamp in your Nvidia Inspector or CCC (if available there, dunno)

you could actually try out positive LOD-biases, if you still encounter shimmering. and there is the (not very likely) alternative, that your graphic card is overheating or dying which produces shimmering artifacts on strongly processed(by graphic card) high-res textures.

[MadWizard25]

I dont actually see a lod bias clamp option in NI?

 

Well the shimmer is very subtle, and i actually enjoy it atm. It may also be an effect of the ENB i am using, i know it adds glossiness to textures, so it may just be that and a little bit of texture shimmer. In any case, the shimmer is only really obvious on some armor in the loading screen.

[torminater]

ok, being a bit more precise:

Nvidia inpector

Elder Scrolls Skyrim profile

Texture filtering section

texture filtering - negative LOD bias --- set to "Clamp"

 

It's set here:

[NewYears1978]

I have been away from Skyrim for 6 or 7 months, after Steam somehow ate my entire mod directory and stuff...and saves..and I didn't want to start over.

 

Anyways, back now, went through STEP the last week or so and finally nearing the end and part where I start my ini stuff.   I have bad Zfighting as well, but following the link in the first post I was able to really limit it..it still had some shimmering but it did help.     I for now reverted my ini's back to default because I have other changes to make (LOD, trees, etc)

 

Ini file is so overwhelming ;) I am so picky and want my game to be perfect.  I had a good balance in my ini before with LOD stuff  and distant drawing etc etc but now that 6 months have passed I have no clue what things changed.   I know I used uGrids 11 before (I didn't play it..just tested) but for some reason now I can't even load a game if I use 11..I can use 7 or 9..but not 11+.

 

Anyways..hoping to find good settings for ini files.  I never used nVidia inspector because I like my game without it.  I like using RCRN + AA off + FXAA on.  I have NO clue how most people don't like this.  At 1080p using FXAA instead of AA makes no difference...EXCEPT that tree branches look MUCH smoother than with 8xAA on. FXAA + RCRN = better performance AND look in my opinion.

 

But I plan to mess with inspector this time and see what it does.  I don't think it's going to make any visual improvemtn but only FPS hit.

 

Well, I rambled on...main point was just to chime in on Z-Fighting and how the fix in the first post seems to help.

 

For reference I have:

 

i5 2500k

GTX 580

8 Gig Corsair Vengeance

 

For the most part, uGrids 7 or 9, all the STEP mods and Ultra settings I run at 60 FPS since all the updates and new drivers..my main problem is sometimes when turning the mouse quickly like near whiterun areas (waterfalls, whiterun, etc) I get a drop to like 45 suddenly then it ramps back up to 60...it's quite annoying..not sure if that can be solved. If anyone knows what causes that, let me know! (sorry I know that's not really on topic lol..I went on a rant here)

[frihyland]

Its caused by all the textures dynamically caching from your harddrive to memory to vram as your line of sight changes, you can lower your ugrids to 5 and your field of view to 65 to reduce the drop but that introduces other problems. You can also use an SSD to run Skyrim from or Increase your RAM and run it from a ramdrive, but its a pretty small problem to buy new hardware to fix.

 

Try running around in the outskirts of Whiterun (not inside the city) while testing your ugrids and fov values, you will find you need to lower them quite a bit to maintain fps.

[NewYears1978]

Its caused by all the textures dynamically caching from your harddrive to memory to vram as your line of sight changes, you can lower your ugrids to 5 and your field of view to 65 to reduce the drop but that introduces other problems. You can also use an SSD to run Skyrim from or Increase your RAM and run it from a ramdrive, but its a pretty small problem to buy new hardware to fix.

 

Try running around in the outskirts of Whiterun (not inside the city) while testing your ugrids and fov values, you will find you need to lower them quite a bit to maintain fps.

Ah bummer.  It is minimal and when I play as normal it doesn't happen often as I don't turn that fast.

 

I use uGrids 9 right now..and I have 160 mods and crap...but I run at 60 FPS non stop..even in those hard places.  I like my uGrids and tweaks so I rather not lower them...  FOV 65 is no way..I run 80-95 ;)   Already have SSD also..

 

Guess it's just an engine problem..especialyl when I want such high config...ah well it will suffice ;)  Now to stick those Z-Fighting tweaks back in and get rid of that.

[stoppingby4now]

Anyways..hoping to find good settings for ini files.  I never used nVidia inspector because I like my game without it.  I like using RCRN + AA off + FXAA on.  I have NO clue how most people don't like this.  At 1080p using FXAA instead of AA makes no difference...EXCEPT that tree branches look MUCH smoother than with 8xAA on. FXAA + RCRN = better performance AND look in my opinion.

 

To specifically answer this, the reason some folks don't like FXAA is that it causes a lot of texture shimmer. I personally can't stand it. When a setup can handle the extra processing requirements, MXAA + SSAA + SGSSAA produces a far superior scene than FXAA can.

[torminater]

Before you do anything else check whether you have any problems with clipping issues! If so, reduce your fov to 65. The z-fighting tweaks will greatly increase the clipping, which can result in Gameplay-Problems, characters or Objects to the sides of your screen don't appear or only Parts of them. Glad you have had a good Experience withthe tweaks. Keep watching this thread As Many New tricks will Be mentioned here before going into Public! Here with my iPhone AND German auto-correct, so sry for the capitalization everywhere...

[torminater]

Updated my guide a bit.