Skyrim Revisited Pre-Release Feedback

[Gyro]

I don't think hitting a VRAM cap will cause crashes, but hitting ~3gb+ physical RAM usage can lead to instability. I know my game is much more likely to crash if I go over that number.

 

 

Would you care to speculate why that might be? I just figure it'd be nice to use some more of that 16 gigabytes....:D

[JudgmentJay]

I don't think hitting a VRAM cap will cause crashes, but hitting ~3gb+ physical RAM usage can lead to instability. I know my game is much more likely to crash if I go over that number.

 

 

Would you care to speculate why that might be? I just figure it'd be nice to use some more of that 16 gigabytes....:D

Well on paper Skyrim can't use more than 4gb of RAM since it's 32-bit software, but the engine is old and fragile and tends to choke at about 3-3.2gb.

[Gyro]

Well on paper Skyrim can't use more than 4gb of RAM since it's 32-bit software, but the engine is old and fragile and tends to choke at about 3-3.2gb.

 

What kinds of mods drive up Skyrim RAM usage? I assume that textures are mainly held in VRAM.

[Neovalen]

So far Ive been able to get 60fps in all areas except ones with lots of grass. Its goes down to ~45 then. I was having an issue where it would load forever when going into bleak falls barrow. ATTK fixed it for me. Now when I walk from Riverwood to Whiterun I get a crash going into the farm where companions take down the giant.

 

Sorry to hear about your ctd issue here. Working on my own small annoyances also.(keep getting a random black texture or two) followed by a ctd but my performance is perfect. I might be straining the engine too much with max unopted textures. Going to attempt debug. If you find anything please let me know.

 

Hey Neovalen,

 

Under the mod Enhanced Blood Textures you have instructions to clean 'dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp' but it looks to be clean already. I noticed the first item in version changes on the mod page is '-Cleaned main' as well.

 

Really liking your Skyrim Revisited page! :D Keep up the good work!

 

Thanks,

Nyven

 

I could have sworn I got rid of that note... will look again.

[JudgmentJay]

Well on paper Skyrim can't use more than 4gb of RAM since it's 32-bit software' date=' but the engine is old and fragile and tends to choke at about 3-3.2gb.[/quote']

 

What kinds of mods drive up Skyrim RAM usage? I assume that textures are mainly held in VRAM.

 

Unfortunately they're held in physical RAM to some degree as well. Installing Texture Pack Combiner only, my physical RAM usage goes from ~1300 to ~2000 in the middle of Riverwood. Other RAM-heavy mods would be stuff like Skyrim Distant Detail. These types of mods are made even more RAM-intensive by z-fighting tweaks. Also, anything that adds objects to the game. For example Expanded Towns and Cities adds ~150mb RAM usage in the middle of Riverwood. Stuff like Interesting NPCs, Civil War, etc can add a bit depending on where you are.

 

Skyrim also caches interior/exterior cells as you move between them which is a big problem. For example when I'm in Markarth I'm sitting at about 2500mb RAM usage with every mod installed, but when I move into Understone Keep, usage jumps to 3gb+ because it's keeping the exterior cell in RAM.

[Gyro]

 

Thanks for elucidation!  I'm always looking for ways to get the most out of my rig where Skyrim is concerned, and NeoValen's mod list demands a lot, so I've been trying to understand some of the underlying architecture.  It's too bad that a lot of the limitations appear to exist within Skyrim itself.

[Neovalen]

 

Thanks for elucidation!  I'm always looking for ways to get the most out of my rig where Skyrim is concerned, and NeoValen's mod list demands a lot, so I've been trying to understand some of the underlying architecture.  It's too bad that a lot of the limitations appear to exist within Skyrim itself.

 

Unfortunately this is the case yes. Hope Beth does a full engine for the next TES game.

 

I think the effective "cap" is just a little over 3gb as the game starts losing things after that point. Going to pause on mod adds for a bit while I do some optimization work since I've maxed out. (I used max sized textures for everything).

[Salvador]

Hmm, I find it hard to believe the engine goes into trouble above 3 GB. Winodws manages memory resources, not the engine, the engine only allocates blocks, and asks windows to handle it. But for smart memory allocation and handling use ATTK. Even if it is reaching it's max limit, it should go and start paging. Now with a hard drive, this will easily cause stutter/CTD, but if you disable paging, it will page in RAM instead (only do this if you have enough RAM 8+), because logically, paging in RAM simply negates the actual purpose for the pagefile. However, when you deal with 32bit programs, and do not overload your RAM, it can have benefits. If you use a lot of RAM intensive programmes such as photoshop however, dont forget to switch paging back on! There are already reports on internet that claim that their stutter disappeared after disabling paging, just google it... Just give it a try if you have enough RAM, you can always switch it back on if it doesn't help.

[JudgmentJay]

I haven't tried ATTK, but if it really does improve memory allocation I'll give it a go.

[Solist]

Hmm' date=' I find it hard to believe the engine goes into trouble above 3 GB. Winodws manages memory resources, not the engine, the engine only allocates blocks, and asks windows to handle it. But for smart memory allocation and handling use ATTK. Even if it is reaching it's max limit, it should go and start paging. Now with a hard drive, this will easily cause stutter/CTD, but if you disable paging, it will page in RAM instead (only do this if you have enough RAM 8+), because logically, paging in RAM simply negates the actual purpose for the pagefile. However, when you deal with 32bit programs, and do not overload your RAM, it can have benefits. If you use a lot of RAM intensive programmes such as photoshop however, dont forget to switch paging back on! There are already reports on internet that claim that their stutter disappeared after disabling paging, just google it... Just give it a try if you have enough RAM, you can always switch it back on if it doesn't help.[/quote']

 

Believe it unfortunately. When Skyrim launced the game engine itself could only leverage 2GB of RAM. There was a mod/hack that someone created that enabled the exe to use the 4GB of Windows. Bethesda eventually released an update to Skyrim that allowed the game to use Windows 4GB of supported RAM.

 

However, it's been confirmed even by Bethesda on their forums that the engine itself, even with the 2GB+ RAM allowed now still starts to creak around 3-3.3GB of RAM.

[Salvador]

Hmm' date=' I find it hard to believe the engine goes into trouble above 3 GB. Winodws manages memory resources' date=' not the engine, the engine only allocates blocks, and asks windows to handle it. But for smart memory allocation and handling use ATTK. Even if it is reaching it's max limit, it should go and start paging. Now with a hard drive, this will easily cause stutter/CTD, but if you disable paging, it will page in RAM instead (only do this if you have enough RAM 8+), because logically, paging in RAM simply negates the actual purpose for the pagefile. However, when you deal with 32bit programs, and do not overload your RAM, it can have benefits. If you use a lot of RAM intensive programmes such as photoshop however, dont forget to switch paging back on! There are already reports on internet that claim that their stutter disappeared after disabling paging, just google it... Just give it a try if you have enough RAM, you can always switch it back on if it doesn't help.[/quote'']

 

Believe it unfortunately. When Skyrim launced the game engine itself could only leverage 2GB of RAM. There was a mod/hack that someone created that enabled the exe to use the 4GB of Windows. Bethesda eventually released an update to Skyrim that allowed the game to use Windows 4GB of supported RAM.

 

However, it's been confirmed even by Bethesda on their forums that the engine itself, even with the 2GB+ RAM allowed now still starts to creak around 3-3.3GB of RAM.

I knew about LAA, but in recent patches they improved memory handling quite a lot. It is in nearly every patch (memory handling improved or something along those lines). Can you link me to those fora? I wonder why the engine has issues above 3.2GB, even if it is a 32 bit program.... Perhaps we should ask Jason2112 he has very good understanding of these things. Also, he had a nice tweak to enable the game to use even more than 4GB in his ATTK thread, if the engine cannot handle more than 3.2GB than there is no real benefit for this tweak...

[PCG4m3r]

 

 

 

Thanks for elucidation!  I'm always looking for ways to get the most out of my rig where Skyrim is concerned, and NeoValen's mod list demands a lot, so I've been trying to understand some of the underlying architecture.  It's too bad that a lot of the limitations appear to exist within Skyrim itself.

Unfortunately this is the case yes. Hope Beth does a full engine for the next TES game.

 

I think the effective "cap" is just a little over 3gb as the game starts losing things after that point. Going to pause on mod adds for a bit while I do some optimization work since I've maxed out. (I used max sized textures for everything).

@Neovalen

 

I just managed to go through every mod in your list, which had textures, and ran DDSopt upd 3 on all of them. My method used in all cases was I first processed all the *.dds files except *_n.dds as an initial pass using the recommended settings from the STEP Wiki Guide (for DDSopt). Then as a 2nd pass I only selected the *_n.dds files and unchecked both options under the "Apply" menu and in "Constraints" set the "Resolution-limit" to 50%, which effectively reduced all Normal Maps without applying any compression.

 

My goal is to eventually go through and try to find any and all textures that are messed up in-game as a result of compression and if I do find any I'll report them so you and others here are aware. I will also mention the same in the other discussion regarding "DDSopt & Texture Overhauls". 

 

Do you think this will be useful here? Seems like it could be.

 

I've already noticed a fairly significant improvement in my FPS/VRAM usage in-game after doing this and I'm using 2048K textures for most mods (4096K for caves with "Snow and Rocks") on a GTX 580 1.5GB RAM with 2048x1280 resolution. Outdoor areas that were previously choppy due to lag and maxed out VRAM now seem smoother and my FPS has stayed at ~55 ...WITH uGrids=7 configured! And I'm not using ATTK, HiAlgo Boost, or anything like that yet.

 

One mistake I made is I only reduced the tangent-space normal maps (*_n.dds) by 50% and forgot to do the same with the model-space normal maps (*_msn.dds). Instead I compressed all *_msn.dds and as a result discovered some mods that DDSopt didn't handle so well, while others seem ok. I just wanted to mention what I found here in case youd find it useful.

 

DDSopt really messed up *_msn.dds files in these mods (i.e. faces, hands, bodies) and somewhat noticable in-game:

• UNP Blessed Body
• Fitness Body
• All In One Face
• Better Males

The *_msnd.dds files in these appeared lightly modified, but didn't seem as bad as mods above or noticeable in-game:

• UNP Base
• No More Ugly Bronze Shine
• CoverKhajiits (*_msn.dds files looked noticably different outside game, but couldn't tell in-game / RaceMenu)
• Dagi-Raht Khajiit

It will take a lot of time to go through all these mods, checking in-game. Hopefully the pay off will be worth it though, because I'm really liking the improved performance! :)

[Neovalen]

Definitely be interested in the results. Anything globally applicable should be reported in the DDSOpt thread as well so the custom INI will get updated.

[PCG4m3r]

Yeah that spot by White run is definetly a congestion spot. Its been mentioned here and also on other forums not related to SR.

 

As far as VRAM using max size textures unoptimized I have hit over 3gb usage. Not a problem for my powerhouse 4gb card though besides the occaisional load stutter crossing cell boundaries(thinking about moving my mods to my SSD) but its not bad or often.

 

Some tweaks I'm trying include disabling vsync and using inspector to cap fps and also the sound tweak. Others I haven't tried yet include going to border less window.

I know you're not adding new mods for the time being, but I wanted to mention this one, since you mentioned the borderless window previously.

 

I often see mention of the "Simple Borderless Window" mod which has a lot of endorsements, but for me personally I had problems getting it to work. I actually found the following, less endorsed mod to work much better for me. You may find it useful.

 

Borderless Windowed Fullscreen - AutoHotkey Script

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/24

• Uses the popular AutoHotkey tool
• Small script in the AutoHotkey file simply checks if Skyrim is borderless when launched and makes it full screen
  • Works for me every time and is fairly quick (goes full screen before main menu appears)
• Benefits:
  • You can also use AutoHotkey for launching other applications with simple shortcuts too!
    • DDSopt (I launch using AutoHotkey all the time)
    • Skyrim executables
    • Any other utilities/applications (not just related to gaming)
    • Easy to edit the script from the Windows Task Bar (tray) and easy to reload changes from there too
• Issues:
  • None that I'm aware of

I'm not familiar enough with all the script commands, but it seems fairly simple to learn, but not necessary.

 

The only thing I ran into when first trying it out for the Borderless script is after installing AutoHotkey the first time it will create an AutoHotkey.ahk file (i.e. the script that is loaded) with some sample script commands included. For the Skyrim script to work, it has to be placed at the top, above any other commands. It will not work (for me) when placed anywhere else in the file.

 

Here is what my AutoHotkey.ahk looks like as a reference (stored in \My Documents):

 

 

 

 

#SingleInstance Force

#Persistent

 

SetTimer Skyrim, 500

Return

 

Skyrim:

   WinGet IDs, List, ahk_class Skyrim

   Loop %IDs%

   {

Screen_X = %A_ScreenWidth%

Screen_Y = %A_ScreenHeight%

      ID := IDs%A_Index%

      If ID not in %Old_IDs%

      {

         WinActivate ahk_id %ID%

          WinSet, Style, -0xC40000, A

; WinMove, A, , 0, 0, 2560, 1600

WinMove, A, , 0, 0, Screen_X, Screen_Y

WinActivate, A

      }

      New_IDs .= ID ","

   }

   StringTrimRight Old_IDs, New_IDs, 1

   New_IDs =

Return

 

#a::Run E:\Games\Skyrim\MODS\[utilities]\_BSA Browser\BSA_Browser_1_7-1395\BSA_Browser.exe

 

#o::Run D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\DDSopt\DDSopt x64.exe

 

#s::Run D:\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\TESV.exe

 

#z::Run www.autohotkey.com

 

^!n::

IfWinExist Untitled - Notepad++

WinActivate

else

Run Notepad++

return

 

 

 

[PCG4m3r]

Definitely be interested in the results. Anything globally applicable should be reported in the DDSOpt thread as well so the custom INI will get updated.

Cool. I will definitely do that. It will probably be a slow process due to the amount of textures modified and trying to find them all in game...and being a single dad with a few kids (don't have a lot of time to mod/play). I will report as I find them though. I've been surprised to find that most actually turned out pretty good, aside from those I already mentioned and the known problems with \effects \sky textures (vanilla).

 

 

Unrelated question:

I'm curious if you know how in-game to identify a mesh (rock) that appears to be missing a side/texture? It's a vanilla problem and drives me crazy when I see it. See screenshots via URL below.

 

https://imgur.com/a/08nGD#0

 

I know I can open the console and click on screen to get some sort of cell value, but I'm not sure how to tell if I'm clicking in the right area. And once I have the value, how can I look at it in the CK? It seems like something that should be fixed with the USKP, but I'm not sure what info they would need to fix it. Any ideas?