Worldspace - NAM0 and NAM9

[Nebulous112]

See this thread I just posted in the general advice forum.

 

Basically, Worldspace records for NAM0 and NAM9 object bounds do NOT follow the rule of one. If you have a mod that changes them, likely it was done by accident (a wild edit). They need to be corrected per mod (a winning record won't suffice), or you will experience additional stuttering in the area.

 

To quote Arthmoor from the thread TES5Edit - Records that merge at runtime:

 

Worldspace Records

 

NAM0, NAM9 subrecords: Used to determine the in-game cell dimension of a worldspace. These have been confirmed to be exempt from the Rule of One. *ANY* mod making changes to these sets of values will have those changes propagated into the game WITHOUT conflict management. Be aware of this if you are running two mods together which intentionally change these values for a worldspace. The outcome will not be predictable and you may end up with a worldspace size much larger than you're expecting. This can lead to huge amounts of stuttering in the game that have no other identifiable cause. If you have mods which are altering vanilla worldspaces, chances are these edits were NOT intentional unless the author specifically states they have done so. They can appear in a mod unintentionally and the author may not be aware it has happened.

 

Going through my mods in my different profiles, I see some that need fixing. Below are the SR:LE records that were affected.

 

• ELFX - Exteriors.esp: (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00016BB4 <RiftenWorld>
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ X --> Change to 45.000000
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF <SolitudeWorld>
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 30.000000
• ELE_Legendary_Fs_Lite.esp (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB <BlindCliffCaveWorld>
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000
• SR Conflct Resolution.esp
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF <SolitudeWorld>
    • Remove record
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB <BlindCliffCaveWorld>
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000

[Neovalen]

 

See this thread I just posted in the general advice forum.

 

Basically, Worldspace records for NAM0 and NAM9 object bounds do NOT follow the rule of one. If you have a mod that changes them, likely it was done by accident (a wild edit). They need to be corrected per mod (a winning record won't suffice), or you will experience additional stuttering in the area.

 

To quote Arthmoor from the thread TES5Edit - Records that merge at runtime:

 

 

Going through my mods in my different profiles, I see some that need fixing. Below are the SR:LE records that were affected.

 

• ELFX - Exteriors.esp: (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00016BB4
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ X --> Change to 45.000000
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 30.000000
• ELE_Legendary_Fs_Lite.esp (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000
• SR Conflct Resolution.esp
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF
    • Remove record
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000

 

Fixes for these mods added to the guide and CR updated. :)

[DarkladyLexy]

 

See this thread I just posted in the general advice forum.

 

Basically, Worldspace records for NAM0 and NAM9 object bounds do NOT follow the rule of one. If you have a mod that changes them, likely it was done by accident (a wild edit). They need to be corrected per mod (a winning record won't suffice), or you will experience additional stuttering in the area.

 

To quote Arthmoor from the thread TES5Edit - Records that merge at runtime:

 

 

Going through my mods in my different profiles, I see some that need fixing. Below are the SR:LE records that were affected.

 

• ELFX - Exteriors.esp: (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00016BB4
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ X --> Change to 45.000000
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 30.000000
• ELE_Legendary_Fs_Lite.esp (Confirmed by author not to be intentional here.)
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000
• SR Conflct Resolution.esp
  • Worldspace \ 00037EDF
    • Remove record
  • Worldspace \ 00020DCB
    • Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X --> Change to -37.000000
    • Object Bounds \ NAM9 - Max \ Y --> Change to 8.000000

 

Updated ours too will be release with the our next CR update.

[dunc001]

So are you saying this can't be resolved by conflict resolution? The fix presumably is to manually edit the offending records in each plugin as required?

[Nebulous112]

Correct. These edits do not follow the rule of one, so the winning record having the default value is not enough.

[Aeradom]

First off, I'm the novice in this area so forgive me if this is a dumb question but how is this only being discovered now? It would seem that the performance issues should have shown up at some point prior to this right? Is this something you'd actually notice in game (I mean in the world space itself not just the stuttering). And second: 

 

Correct. These edits do not follow the rule of one, so the winning record having the default value is not enough.

 

My first thought when I read this was. "What does Star Wars have to do with this?" Like I said, new to this whole advanced modding thing. 

[Nebulous112]

It was not just discovered now. Arthmoor figured this out a long time ago and posted about it - see the original link.

 

When you have a guide with a couple hundred mods it is easy to miss things. Especially when one person creates and maintains the whole guide. Any type of minor performance loss can be difficult to track down when it could be any number of interactions between mods.

 

It is likely not that noticeable of a difference, to be honest. The worldspace bounds were not horribly off the original numbers in this case. If you look at a mod like Birds & Flocks, the edits in that mod were off by 15 or 20 units. That would be very noticeable, I believe.

 

However, IMO any type of performance increase is a plus, especially when you gain the performance by fixing what the mod authors deem to be mistakes.

 

Load Order and You (for reading about the Rule of One). Now I need to go read up on whatever Star Wars reference I missed. And I consider myself a fan. :-/

[Neovalen]

It was not just discovered now. Arthmoor figured this out a long time ago and posted about it - see the original link.

 

When you have a guide with a couple hundred mods it is easy to miss things. Especially when one person creates and maintains the whole guide. Any type of minor performance loss can be difficult to track down when it could be any number of interactions between mods.

 

It is likely not that noticeable of a difference, to be honest. The worldspace bounds were not horribly off the original numbers in this case. If you look at a mod like Birds & Flocks, the edits in that mod were off by 15 or 20 units. That would be very noticeable, I believe.

 

However, IMO any type of performance increase is a plus, especially when you gain the performance by fixing what the mod authors deem to be mistakes.

 

Load Order and You (for reading about the Rule of One). Now I need to go read up on whatever Star Wars reference I missed. And I consider myself a fan. :-/

There can be only one Sith lord... and one apprentice.

[Nebulous112]

Ahhh that makes sense.

 

And the true meaning of Darth_mathias's name has finally become clear.

 

You will not get away with your treachery, Lord Neovalen. The STEP Council will be told of your actions!

[zilav]

It starts to affect performance only with larger numbers 100+

Technically those values are stored in absolute coordinates and indicates bounds for all placed objects in a worldspace, xEdit converts them to cells to make it easier. If a mod puts something outside of original bounds, those values will be extended by CK. So changes in NAM0 and NAM9 are not always a bad thing.

[Darth_mathias]

Ahhh that makes sense.

 

And the true meaning of Darth_mathias's name has finally become clear.

 

You will not get away with your treachery, Lord Neovalen. The STEP Council will be told of your actions!

Always two there are A Master and an Apprentice.

[mavanaic]

Found one difference in DynamicStealth.esp \ Worldspace \ 0000003C <Tamriel> Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X - -58.000000...Should I change it to -57.000000 ?

[Neovalen]

Found one difference in DynamicStealth.esp \ Worldspace \ 0000003C Object Bounds \ NAM0 - Min \ X - -58.000000...Should I change it to -57.000000 ?

From the sound of the exp and the type of mod it might be from... I would say yes.

[mavanaic]

Will do..Thanks

[Nebulous112]

It starts to affect performance only with larger numbers 100+

Technically those values are stored in absolute coordinates and indicates bounds for all placed objects in a worldspace, xEdit converts them to cells to make it easier. If a mod puts something outside of original bounds, those values will be extended by CK. So changes in NAM0 and NAM9 are not always a bad thing.

Thanks for the info, Zilav. :-)

[baronaatista]

The ELE edit is in the STEP Extended Patch as well.