Uhuru

I have an allergy to "Cash Shops" in games, so when one appeared in F4 & SSE, I permanently* deleted both games from my Steam Account. For me it's far worse than F76, because I knew F76 had a cash shop the day it was revealed at E3, not added to games I only bought because they have not got a cash shop. I do NOT buy "In-Game Cash Shop". So I own BGS games ONLY on GOG, the passion to mod them hadn't returned, until Fallout London released, not really surprised. Though I never followed STEP guides, they are one of my references, due to the accuracy & dependability of the testing done here. xEdit has changed: Does Renaming work the same? So when I find a discrepancy, I typically correct my assumptions, things have changed, or my memory is inaccurate. Not this time & as following the guide works, it's the advanced options of renaming to xEdit that I see a new issue. I get my xEdit from GitHub & before that renamed my install to xEdit Using MO Arguments to set the game, with the standard STEP arguments. This is NOW what I get from GitHub using xEdit.4.1.5f.7z BSArch.exe BSArch64.exe BSArchPro.exe BSArchPro64.exe xDump.exe xDump64.exe xFOEdit.exe = MD5 = 83D4ACBC96506D57931AA759E5314A3F xFOEdit64.exe = MD5 = 84CAA4705EDFB1E821518AED05C9C839 xSFEdit.exe = MD5 = 0768EF33C9BCC8662804451F4DA9EEA2 xSFEdit64.exe = MD5 = 2C280A42C30AF4B83685E9D77F0ED166 xTESEdit.exe = MD5 = 7BD4516FC4DA0E5C2BED1C5F96DD9068 xTESEdit64.exe = MD5 = 3150627E1DC87C1D71875F304DDD5BF1 Edit Scripts Themes Note there is no single xEdit.exe, or xEdit64.exe, these are Franchise specific now. This would not impact games within a franchise & I have no idea what the results would be. This change is occurred in xEdit.4.1.5.EXPERIMENTAL.7z released Nov 4, 2023, no surprise the big upgrade changed things. I'm surprised that I have found no mention of this, on my return. Saying that your guide never linked to GitHub, always the rename Nexus versions, while For me it gave a central source. I sort of get why STEP may have missed this, but I can find no mentions of the change. I have other more general comments about modding with GOG releases, but hat will need another post. So am I missing something, does this matter? It appears to be very important for Starfield (Not on GOG) reading the GitHub details. What about Fallout & TES versions? * I only found out a few days ago that at some point Steam made that a reversible action, but I don't care.

First, welcome to MO support on STEP This is a little (If you know my usual posts, you would agree) post giving some details of what you can expect from us, and what we expect from You Why the Nexus comments were closed down The final decision to close the comments on the Nexus was Tannin's. His inclination was to keep it open, but he doesn't provide the actual support. We had kept up support in the original Posts Tab/Forum Thread, and made it clear that, the best support was on STEP. Then a week ago I discovered a Forum Thread that was saying the opposite. Bug Reports posted here It was 18 months old, and had over 200 posts. the last one was my reaction to the thread, and I had no power to either close it down, or even Sticky my post, it remains the last only because comments were closed. The user who created it may have thought it was a good idea, not for MO, which has a bug tracking system for real bugs, most users don't know what is a bug, if they don't RTFM in the first place Every post made after that was hidden in a thread, none of the Support Team looked at, until I accidently opened it by clicking on a link. Amother 100 threads existed in the forums, with one or two exceptions, all were one or two posts long, and made by users who didn't RTFM They may have thought adding a new Forum topic would be better than, using the huge Posts Tab/Forum Thread, I don't blame them, I would do the same. In the case of MO, these Forums never existed when it moved, so what may work for mods on the Nexus, actually hid their posts from MO support After a short discussion here, where all those providing support, said the Nexus comments should be closed. Tannin decided to close the Nexus Comments. One or two pre-emptive responses are required, comments from the Nexus community on this topic, including any complaints should appear here in this thread. Here making new threads is fine, but we can and will move any we decide should be moved, to where existing threads exist. We are open to reasoned criticism, and won't remove them. Spam and personal abuse are unacceptable, check STEP's terms which are standard forum rules. Quoting unnamed User(s) Said more than once, ironically last time in the huge unanswered Bug Reports Posted here thread. Well maybe if you read the description, and posted in the Posts Tab, instead you may have got the standard responce. If as with 90% of user questions, you had simply read the Description* page, you would have found the answer to your question without even posting here. * See the How to RTFM with MO heading below for variations on this. If you are one of the 10% who have genuine unanswered questions, I would add; You think Tannin, or we users who volunteer our help, have time, to go running around finding your randomly placed posts, when you can't be bothered to do a one time registration process that takes a minute or two. You want our help, you find that time, after spending 18 months helping, it was this sort of attitude that made it stop being fun for me, yes we can enjoy helping you, but it grows tiresome when no one can be bothered to help themselves. I spent a year away from MO support due to this sort of thing wearing me down, I've returned and I'm enthused to provide help once again, but I have little tolerance left for this sort of self centered attitude. Then ask away, we will make sure you understand, or at least as far as you need to, to use MO. Most users don't need, or want to know, how MO's magic staff works, they just want to use the staff to zap skyrim into shape. We build thje staffs, so you can use them to cast MO's magic on the game, THat's all we ask, you try to find the answers yourself, you have no need to register with STEP, if you do, but you can. Bullet points of main facts. MO will be hosted on the Nexus Mods site, that will not change.Nexus mods is designed for in game mod support, not a mod manager.NMM isn't listed as a mod, for the same reasons that MO moved to STEP.Complicated tools need more than the one thread support available.MO has one author Tannin, he works full time and codes MO as a hobby,Tannin provides little to no help to users, he makes MO awesome, and has no time to help you.Other users volunteer to provide that help, so Tannin can make MO much better.We volunteers can't provide that Help on the Nexus, we have no control.STEP offers full moderator privileges to the volunteers, Nexus doesn't.The most important part is that, STEP's rigorous testing standards, is based only on ingame resultsSTEP's Testing methods have become the main MO Testers, the QA team, it has vastly improved MO for everyone.Who is in charge of MO Support STEP is a big part of MO Support, and the site is their site.MO Support must obey the site rules, here just like on the Nexus,Tannin has full control of MO Support, within the site rulesTannin has chosen MO Moderators, like myself, we are not part of the STEP StaffSTEP Staff can moderate the entire site, so they are also MO moderatorsGames Supported MO Support's four 32-bit games, in order of usage/ageThe Elder Scrolls: SkyrimFallout New VegasFallout 3The Elder Scrolls: OblivionMO2 is 64-bit and is designed to support Fallout 4It will support all the 32-bit games as well.MO is currently, and may always be the best choice for the 32-bit games.MO2 is in Beta at this moment, only Fallout 4 is currently actively working.This is changing, when released, MO2 will work with all four 32-bit games.We are few, you are many Simple fact is few users provide support regularly.Who they are can change, but at most they can be counted on one hand.Less than ten volunteers, for MO and STEP combined, and they do that work here.We haven't got either the time or numbers, to provide help everywhere.When Support moved here, we the volunteers wanted Nexus comments closed.Why, the one huge thread was unmanageable, and inadequate.What RTFM actually means For in game mods it means, read the installation instructions, before you install the mod.Often that is all that's required, unless you have a problem, then you read everything.Starting with the Nexus Mods Description, Sticky Posts, ReadMe, Articles etc.Then search the linked Forum Thread/Posts Tab, and the new Forums Tab.How to RTFM with MO The first user to help you, must be Yourself, you need to RTFM first.​Read the Nexus description, all of it, MO isn't a simple mod, you can't install and forget with MOBeginner's Guide is included inside MO.Use the Built-in tutorial.Read the pop-up tool tips.Use the ? Button and then click on the part you want to know about.Intermediate Guide is the main MO Documentation Wiki.​​​This is the Full documentation for users of MOWhat a User needs to know, is the focus hereIt's a reference Manual, not a book, refer often, and never assume things are unchangedIt's a Wiki, so it's kept updated, constantly, MO is stable, MO2 will require rapud alterations with each new releaseIt's a Wiki, if you see an error, even a simple typo, fix it if you can (you can if registered), report it otherwiseAdvanced Guide is the Advancred MO Documentation WikiThis is only for those who want to know how MO really worksThis is the guide for those inclined to help others, and the "Power User"It's far from complete, as we tend to go and find this info ourselvesI intend to work on this section, but it's not the main priority.MO2 documentation in the main guide will come firstIt's a Wiki, see above.Questions are welcome, if I haven't covered yours, already, in this little post, I tried, but ask away

I wont quote Mator's PM's he mentioned, I have responded, as soon as I saw them. I was unable to come to the site last weekend, until today, when I saw the link in my message box. He has addressed some of my concerns in those messages, and I have asked him to make them available here. It appears LO will include some form of automation, and while I never say LOOT can give a perfect LO (80%+), with Metadata edits required for the remaining sorting. My real concern was the idea of manual LO maintainence, in the manner of the BOSS masterlist, which was unmaintainable. No indication of LO auto maintainance, appeared to be included, and relying on manual listing, seermed to be heading for the same roadblock as BOSS. I consider that isn't the issue I feared, as it's not fully manual, LOOT requires part manual as well. that isn't a concern, as Mod Picker is giving additional giuidance, and Mator claims, he's got better Algorithms for the auto parts. I won't take his word for that, testing as always needs doing, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt, as his automation skills are outstanding. I have past experience to tell me, if anyone can do this, it's Mator. I will say here what I did in the PM's, I have no agenda other than wanting Mod Picker to be successful, My concerns were issues I saw as potential hinderances to that success, and not raised as reasons, not to make the tool/site. I fully support the overall plan, and want it to succeed. We are apparently all in favour of Open Souce (Copyleft) modding, and back when Wrye made his proposals, it was not Popular, or that is the impression, I have gotten. mixing Closed Source and Open Source, works for profit making businesses, as they can sue in the courts to gain their, pound of flesh. It fails for mods, and both the Steam Workshop and Bethesda.net are rife with stolen content, where closed source protects the thief. Only full open source modding, truly protects mod authors, if the source must be available theft can't be hidden. Whether the experiences of how Valve and Bethesda's systems fail genuine creators, has changed the consensus in favour of Open Source, I don't know. However unless I'm missing something, no mod creators assets are included on the Mod Picker Site. In regards the discussion over who owns the rights to the files, I think that is a red herring in this case, as Mod Picker will host no mod creators files, I've heard mention of customised compatibility patching, which suggests Mator Smash functionality and involvement. I don't think that makes any difference, as long as the Mod Creators content is hosted anywhere, but the Mod Picker site. This is something, it goes some way to protect the list creators, but it still fails to protect the list creators/maintainers rights as the author of the list. They still have no right to use anything but unsupported custom entries. "Custom entries will not have the benefits of compatibility, install order, load order, or conflict information." Why? Does this involve any mod creators asset, regardless of whether they or Bethesda Softworks own the rights, i'm struggling to see how this is relevant at all. If those assets are required to access the functionality, of these functions, they files exist on the list users own hardrive, and they have the right to use any tools available to determine compatibility, install order, load order, or conflict information. What author rights would be violated, by using the files downloaded from the host site? The only rights I can see being violated is the list creators, am I missing something? I see no "grey" areas here, the user has the mods according to the rules of the host site, where the mod authors rights are respected and upheld, and at no time are thier files hosted on the Mod Picker site. I may have missed something, but it seems clear and unequivical to me, or am I wrong?

That is not what the Mod Picker team are talking about, they are saying that even though a mod is available on the Nexus, or anywhere else, uploaded and maintained by the author. The Mod Author would have the right to remove it's listing on the Mod Picker site. Not sure if that means individually maintained lists, or just every list, but in either case, the list maintainer would be forced to remove mods, that were still available on Nexus, because the author has been given this uinjustifiable right. The example I give now is a worst case scenario, I'm not suggesting it would ever happen, just that the rules, as currently proposed make it possible. SkSE removed from Mod Picker, yet available on silverlock, so only not available for every Mod Listing using Mod Picker. It is a different issue to authors removing the mod from the entire Internet, which I believe is also wrong, as I think only full open source modding truly protects the authors rights. Why closed source fails, and why only Full Open Source works (Off Topic diversion) The Mod Picker site, doesn't host any of the author's work, so why do they get to deteremine whether their mod is included or not. I suspect the true reason is the Mod Picker team hope the uploading of the initial data, will be done by the Mod Authors, out of the self interest a popular site would generate. This right is a knee jerk reaction, to the uproar generated by the botched launch, a direct cause of not publicly discussing the plans before the reveal, it's typical of Brthesda Softworks methods, tell nobody nothing, make plans without thinking and talking through the problems. Mod authors are not, often prolific mod users. Look at DDProductions he doesn't use mods, he avoids using the DLC when he can, his only concern is making his mods work in the game. Gopher is a well known exception, but most prolific big name authors, simply don't play, they create, Because they are a team, of experienced Mod Authors, that doesn't make them experts, at using mods, and creating mod listings and maintaining those lists, is not a simple task, or one most users can do either. STEP isn't the only experienced source, Skyrim Mod Combiner and other listings are also available, but as this is the STEP forums, they are my example. The only listing, they consulted, (became part of the team) is Skyrim GEMS, a good collection of great mods you can choose from, but it's not an installable listing. So not really the best source of info, for getting the mods into the game. Mod Picker was planning on automating downloading, we know that's a non starter, both STEP and MO teams have considered this approach, No hosting site can survive without visitors, Dark One wasn't even consulted, because the Mod Picker yeam didn't think about it. Our automation plans fell at this hurdle, but we had considered the problem and asked before going public, indeed in the end without auto downloads our plans had no real reason to continue. I never expected STEP or SR to be transferred to Mod Picker completely, but could envisage them taking advantage of the automation techniques it uses to get the installation to a certain state much faster. However I 'm just using them as examples of how much work goes in to maintaining such lists, when author mod takedowns and mod updating is involved. I can't see anyone using this, when even their listing can be compromised, because a mod author has been given rights they don't deserve. Why should the author be able to remove their mod from your list, when the mod is still on the Nexus, but just not listed on Mod Picker. I like the idea of Mod Picker, we tried to impliment some aspects because we all like the idea, STEP with auto install and Mator's Automation skills are the core feature of Mod Picker. I actually want it to suceed, but can't see how that can happen with the current plan, I'm surprised that for all Mator's automation skills he wants manually managed Load Orders, with all the issues BOSS has maintaining such listings. It doesn't have to use LOOT, but it must be automated to make it manageable, I see no advantage to using manual listings of Load Order to reach some sort of consensus, and reinventing the wheel rarely works. LOOT's original methods were unfamiliar to those used to the order imposed by BOSS's manual masterlist, most didn't realise the neat alphabetical groups BOSS used, were only used to make the manual list easier to maintain. LOOT now sorts Groups alphabetically, but does so automatically by algorithm, not manual listing. My understanding is LOOT sorts STEP the same way for all who use it now, while the earlier versions would give different results. NMM is trying a simalar idea, when that manager still can't manage one profile correctly, typical of Nexus all grand vision, while the basics are not even done. Having used that manager for 3 recent games, Fallout 4, Witcher 3 and XCOM 2, with just one profile, I have lowered my opinion of it. The addition of Sym Linking is problematic, for even one profile. 3rd Party tools don't use the NMM system so break all the links they affect, and are not maged by NMM as a result NMM as more issues than sharing lists to solve, Mod Picker is a much better idea, but these are some of the problems I see in the current plans. The core idea is good, but the implimentation as currently planned has some major issues, that make it unfit for the intended purpose. None of them are unsolvable, but they all need addressing,

I'm not one to rail against this based on spurious rumour, in principle it's a great idea, but not the first to try to do this, STEP also tried a similar approach and had similar issues with the Nexus reliance on ads, others hit this wall, it scuppered all of them. Some of my concerns are what was done to appease the mod authors, who expressed a knee jerk reaction, without knowing anything about it. I have specific concerns based on the implimentation as it stands. The reliance on manually setting the Load Orders, is doomed to failure, their are simply to many mods for the handful of dedicated helpers to keep up. LOOT (BOSS v3+) wouldnt exist if that was doable, if the established BOSS Team couldn't do it, who can. Do you think STEP or even Neovalen, could keep their guides working, with mod authors having a veto on the mod simply being listed, it's hard enough to do that, when authors can remove the mod from Nexus. It would be impossible to maintain on Mod Picker, if authors can have the mod on Nexus, and control the guides usage of it. I see no way either Neovalen or STEP can support this, regardless of whether they make the guide here or not. How can they have one guide here, and another there when mod authors have a veto on a mod list, that they have no right to touch. Only the lists creator(s) must control that list, no mod authors rights are breached by including their mod, it's a list of instructions and a link to the hosting site. So it's the cocession to mod authors, because the launch was totally botched, without hosting mods, or direct downloads, I see no need to give them any rights at all. Do Mod creators have any rights to anything Mod Picker intends to do, now that the team has finally understood that Nexus will not allow any sort of direct downloads, the auto install mods part is dead and gone. I see no way anybody will spend the time to create a detailed set of mod Instructions given such lack of control, the list creator gets their rights abused, to appease those whose rights remain unviolated. it will fail if this remains in place, i can't see any other outcome, I haven't asked Step or Neovalen, but feel sure they can never support this, under those terms and conditions. If the most detailed existing guides won't be posted there, whose going to start one? Nobody at all, not without getting full creative control over their own work. So my objections are in the current implementation plan, not the core great idea, which could work, if implimented better, much better. Getting it to a state where they can get STEP and Neovalen to support it, is the first practical hurdle. Instead they went to the basic Skyrim Gems. A good resource, but not a mod installation guide.

No one else has responded, so I'm giving GrantSP the Icewind Dale key as well. Not because hes STEP Staff, because he's MistakenMystic on Nexus, and the most active helper on MO forums. So sorry keys are gone. I will add that when GOG gives me free keys, for games I already own, I will not offer them on GOG in future, they will be given to a STEP/MO user in this Gaming thread.

Thanks for responding Mator, I honestly think how you do things is fine for the average user, even ideal for most, who are never likely to use many profiles, like I do, and most wouldn't want to take the time to split FoMods. It's an advanced technique, initially designed solely for FoMods, and limiting my mods SSD footprint, currently 126GB (thats with around 18 months of inactivity), on a 476GB Games SSD. With over 300 games active, all wanting SSD space, I also use Link Shell Extension to manage what gets on there (Actively playing), while allowing any game to be started from my logical Franchise groupings with proper names (WTF steam). When I started using your xEdit script, I had to adapt the system for Merge Plugins, to work with my already existing system, where Mod Isolation is essential to how it works. To be clear all assets required must be active with the desired plugins, this discussion is about how Merge Plugins works, only using the real/VFS Data folder, and getting those contents right is always the users responsibility. The fact that Merge Plugins can see the MO Mods folder content is very powerful, and I think it should be there, and remain the standard method. I'm not trying to change that. If the user takes full control of tasset and plugin management within MO, and never tells Merge Plugins that MO is used, only the user can be responsible for any asset management mistakes. I understand the asset management issues involved, and probably could have explained it much better in my post. I try to be clear about these things, but experience tells me Forum posts are not ideal, in fact the worst places to provide documentation. My initial posts was intended to address the OP's issues and get to the bottom of why his assets were missing, I suspect it may have been the BSA hiding issues that Kelmych mentioned. If so they would remain using my techniques, and the correct answer could be found, where if my technique workred for his issue, the results could be added to the basic dictionary, as additional steps required for merging those mods. OP never responded, so the discussion ended with your post. I'm aware of your current work, and thought coming here was a better place to discuss this, without confusing the average MP user, with advanced techniques they don't need to use. The exellent docs you provide are much better than forum posts, which was the initial reason I approached STEP, with the idea of MO support taking over the Wiki, only to discover STEP was switching to MO, and offered the Forums as well. The very best thing in my humble opinion, was something I never thought of, STEP testing has become the unofficial MO Quakity Assurance, MO is far better due to that, Tannin can't fix bugs he doesn't know about. Even I rarely bother splitting FoMods when the Mod is under constant development, my general rule is it must only be changed every 3 months, to be worth doing, as the initial process is a more involved install. As for separate mods for each plugin, that is only required for plugins that have alternatives, so that the chosen plugun can be activated, I do group unchanged plugins in the core plugins mod, but that detail wasn't needed to explain the core techniques. I have made Forum Posts about these details when purely discussing the FoMod splitting, but that initial post was in response to a specefic issue the user was having, and was more to test if the technique changed his results. I intend to add this to MO's advanced documentation section, which is the one section we need to improve most, but that's for the MO Wiki. I would suggest at most, a link to that for those who want to use it, on the Merge Plugins page. You make the best tools for ordinary users, we control freaks, can work our magic, with what you already provide, i don't think your Mod needs changing, for how I use it. I'm happy that my advice is correct, because incorrect advise, is worse than no advice. If it wasn't, then I needed to know why, and adjust to make it work right. Not make change your advice to meet my specific needs, you must cater for the average user, not advanced ones. So please keep giving that average advice, MO and Merge Plugins support, is easier with the average user dealt with.

Claasic free with Enhanced Just got an update to the GOG enhanced editions, where I was also gifted the classic versions, so that settles this question, for new buyers. The new question is I already have the GOG classic versions of BG and BG2, so who wants the free codes. First post requesting, will get a PM with the pair of codes. Icewind Dale EE also gives free code, so that classic version will go to another poster First post can choose BG pair or ID

Thanks Z, Goy the urge to help out again, though I haven't been modding Skyrim, in since end of 2014. I still help MO users where I find them, got some thoughts on that, but this thread is for Merge Plugins. I understand the Step methology for hiding certain files, I would do this using the external tools I mentioned (BSAOpt extract only and Archives.exe repacks), this is my understanding from reading both STEP guides and Skyrim revisited, though I never tried to follow the mod choices, I use them has general good practice guides. The issues you mention are part of the responsibility, I take on myself, that goes under my responsibilities for asset management. Generally for merges, this means arranging mods (split are still treated as one mod and moved as a complete block), in the same order, as plugins to be merged. Trying to get to the basic explanation, as I understand things Basically I'm using Merge Plugins as though, my game is manually/Wrye Bash installed, eg what Merge Plugins does if MO is unknown to Merge Plugins, the VFS is the Skyrim Data Folder, and Merge Plugins has no knowledge MO exists. in other words if Merge Plugins, only merges plugins with Manual/Wrye Bash, it should be the same using MO, without ticking the using MO box, or the NMM one either, but that's a new feature of Standalone. I'm in the process of catching up, with new changes since the end of 2014, so my past experience, is with the Merge Plugins xEdit Script, not Standalone, but for MO it appears the same, to me. With the using MO box, you are telling Merge Plugins to use the MO Mods folder to Merge, both mods and assets, and Mator's methology makes sense for single profile use, or fixed merges used in multiple profiles. I have vastly different profiles, which use my Split FoMods with completely different selections, and though the setting up takes much longer, I save more time with profile switching, and also use Profile specific mods for things like FNIS results, and Dynamic Patchers, so when I switch, the profiles good to go without any extra work, switching from say, Purity to RW2, is a breeze. Without these methods, I must reinstall every affected FoMod, or use lots of "wasted" SSD space, to have multiple profile specific ones, even when 90% of files are identical.

I made this post on the Merge Plugins Forum advising a user of a way to manage mods using MO's mod isolation capabilities, it's most advanced application is to manage FoMods for Multiple profiles, especially when those profiles use different options and/or mods that affect many of these types of FoMod choices. A typical example is using different weather mods, my ENB choice give 5 of these: Vividian ENB - Weather and Lighting - Vivid Weathers - CoT5 - RCRN - Pure Weather - Purity - NLA by Mangaclub and Benhat Many FoMods also have options for these, and I gave clear examples of how I split these FoMods to enable the multi choice options, to be used. Providing one set of files, for all profiles, whatever options are chosen. See the spoilers in my post. Now the FoMod methology is the most complex implimentation, but the separation of Plugin(s), from assets can be applied to ordinary mods for plugin only merging in MO. I have considered Mator's response, and I'm sure he's mistaken, what he says applies to the recommended process, but I never said anything about using the recommended method. I believe I understand exactly how MO works in my system, but I could be wrong about Merge Plugins functionality, and as I'm advising people, I want the advice to be correct. Rather than what I think is correct (or Mator), that is much more important than which is right. THe fact is I'm taking on full responsibility for ordering the assets to match the merging, for easy switching of profiles, where merges may be different, or not used is more important to me than ease of any particular process. My principle is to do the work required to in advance, so that when I change the profile, it is immediatly ready to go. Instead of either reinstalling all the Fomods, or having profile specific installs for each one, I simply activate the choices I desire, once for each profile, due to this each play ready at once, no matter how different the choices made. My SSD thanks me, with freed up Gigabytes of space. The same basic principle is applied to the merged plugins when an included plugin isn't used, another merge already exists, or the individual plugins can simply be activated. Mator's recommended methods work fine for one profile, or if the same choices are made for all profiles, but I prefer the flexibilty of keeping the mods pristine and ready to use. So now that long explanation is over, lets get to the simplicity of the method I use, to merge mods. Merge Plugins Method used Merge Plugins is used, as if Mod Organizer didn't exist, I ignore Mator's instructions, as far as his tool is concerned (All 3rd party tools in MO), it is the Skyrim Data Folder, it's merging the plugins in. Given that fact, I use the basic system, exactly like the Manual and/or Wrye Bash user would, all I want merging is the plugins, just like they do. What happens in MO's mods folder, is under my control, and I take full responsibilty for getting things correct in MO, Merge Plugins has one job, merging the plugins, nothing more. This makes his response, irrelevant, MO mod management isn't part of the merging process I use, and I don't need to uncheck the "Copy General Assets" option, because I never check the I'm using MO one, thn auto checks it. I don't tell Merge Plugins what I'm using, because it doesn't need to know that, all it needs to do is Merge Plugins within the games Data folder. Mo and I manage what's in MO's Mods folder, so it doesn't need to even see it. MOMA (Mod Organizer Manged Archives) We need a name or acronym for this, I know of none for this system, so offer this feeble effort How I use MO's BSA options, I go with full MOMA. I never considered BSA extraction as viable or even desirable for Skyrim, using MO. It still surprises me that the WB supporters pick on that, as it's used by WB users much more than MO, indeed getting STEP to kick that bad habit, brought from WB use, was the main problem I saw MOMA gave me the best of both worlds, BSA size on my SSD, with Loose files management of assets, I never so any need to extract anything, much as STEP now does, if a specific file inside the BSA needs changing, I extract the file, but still use the BSA. I honestly don't know why BSA extraction, or built in LOOT even exist in MO. Tannin always said, something like, "MO should use 3rd party tools, when available, if they can do a better job". My memory puts the phrase, "MO won't reinvent the wheel", in my head, but memory always lies, it's unreliable as source material. Full LOOT sorts better, due to the UI and user editing feature, MO lacks. BSA extraction, I'm not as clear on, BSAOpt for extraction and BGS's Archive.exe to remake them? Summary I can't see anything I'm missing, or know of anything that changes the situation, but as I said at the start, it's getting this right that's important, if I'm telling people I'm right, and Mator's wrong, I need to be sure it's correct. If Mator's right, and I'm the one whose got it wrong, I need to understand why, so what is correct is more important, than who said it. Feedback is appreciated, and though explaining my methology is not so easy, using the methods described, is much simpler, than explaining them.

Great Idea, worst exucution ever, maybe 2nd or 3rd worst, as Bethesda.net and Skyrim Workexists as well Which is why this has been tried before, and it's blatently obvious, none of that prior experience, and why they failed, was ever considered. The aims are great, yet this is repeating all the same problems, that Nexus, LOOT and STEP have had to deal with, and all combined within one brand new site. Mator thought Dark One could have no objection to, batch mod downloads, which was what scuppered the Auto-STEP attempt. I joked about the Bethesda.net being worse, but this follows the BS, ignore the modders approach Develop in secret, making every mistake in the book, and adding some new ones for good measureAnnounce the project as a complete package, shortly before it's ready to goAnnounce a microscopic closed Beta (300 users, 250 pre allocated, so 50 users at most, if it's even started)Thinking manual Load Orders can work, we already tried tht, with BOSSExpress surprise when it's met with considerable hostility, and scepticism.Give Mod authors a veto, when their Author rights are not violated, in any way shape or form, yet still manage to make them think, it does exactly that.Expect list makers to spend many hours maintaining their lists, knowing a butt hurt prima donna, with no legal or moral right, can destroy that work, because "Reasons".Well it certainly is giving Bethesda.net a challenge for the most ill thought out plan for modding ever, created. I don't understand the secrecy aspect, they didn't actually think BS, would copy a good plan, I mean look at the Workshop. The unmentioned concern, I really have, is what this means for Mator Smash, development has virtually ceased, coinciding when this started, is that now dead? I hope not, as I see a stable and fully tested Mator Smash, as the solid foundation to build such a site on. After the foundation is built, add the extra layers, if Mator Smash is ready to be the core, why isn't it released already, creating the founsdations of the many who will use such a public release. Consult all the existing sites that do this type of thing already, as the basic idea is sound enough, using Smash and NXM Protocol is a good idea. I have already raised the idea of adding the NXM,Download with Manager buttons to LoversLab, that was before I knew about this, with the idea of adding it to MO. I've not raised the issue with Tannin, it would need the ability to add sites other than Nexus, so that MO would accept the downloads, as it does with the Nexus. NXM is a basic Internet Protocol, Firefox will forward a LOversLab dowl-nload to MO, I tested that one, so that's asound principle. Don't think I'm dead set against this, just surprised, that Mator, the Automation Master, should think manual would ever work. Does this mean Authors could remove mentioning their mods Mator Smasfh, Merge Plugins or xEdit, LOOT etc. anything that stores info on their mods How is the proposed database any different? They also store data about the mods, not the actual mods. Obviously not, so why ever suggest they can.

You are actuall wrong there MO has the ability to leave BSA's Packed and still treat it exactly like Loose files, this gives the best of both worlds. BSA's Size which is approximately half the size of Loose (Always good to take up Less Space especially with SSD's.User Control of Conflict resolution the Main advantage of Loose Files, Giving a Win-Win Best of Both OptionsThis was optional and chosen by ticking of a checkbox on BSA's it was especially recommended when an ESP had the sole purpose of extracting the BSA, this had replaced the original recommendation to extract as you describe. The observant will have noticed I use the past tense implying that this is no longer the case, this impication is correct, though the feature is still in use, things have changed. MO v1.2.1 has made the change automatic and default, the advatageis so obvious and useful, disadvantages are none.

Yes, I see the Logic for Scripts matching Plugins, I wasn't trying to imply MO is doing something wrong. Just Trying to gather all releavant facts together, as nowhere (All sites) is this sort of thing discussed much at all, nowhere can I actually find anything much regarding Install Order apart from the obvious fact that updates to a mod come after the main mod, I'd expect that should also match Load Order, not exactly an update if main comes after for both orders. Are there any exceptions to those general rules and is there anything else that should match Load Order. Generally Meshes and Textures are arranged as user prefers. Whats the priority of these different choices for intstall Order Updates Scripts ? Meshes Textures ? Load Order Gets all the attention as mistakes there tend to stop game running, Mistakes in install order are more subtle and often not connected to the effect, if anything that makes a general good practice guide, even more helpful to reduce these hard to pin down errors. Basically from all I've read if the game loads the Load Order is correct, yet I often read someone posting that, they stopped this or that happening in game, though it may be true, it appears to be a crude method that actually caused another change (BSA's maybe or even the script switch in reverse). With a proper set of general guidelines maybe a lot of the crude fixes would not be needed. So some progress towards the facts but still not clear yet. Your input is appreciated. Sources would be better though.

My understanding has always been that Install Order is about what files win a conflict. which is completely separate to Load Order. MO is arranging the Script conflicts to match Load Order. I can find no info about this and a debate rages on MO forum. This is not about that debate directly. This is about gathering the established facts about the general subject. This post can be edited by any mod/staff to match established facts about the general subject. Nowhere is this written about it should be.

Viewed them all last night. Generally very well made, short, very short, but not been done that way before and given the short attention span most people have, not a bad idea. Improvements Should show the easiest way for beginner first, not your way, like renaming Mods (I rename also), it's not a beginner step, though mentioning that it can be done is fine. Assume your audience knows absolutely nothing and always give them the standard setup, first and foremost. One exception to that rule is using "Program Files (x86)" as default location, it isn't recommended with UAC and/or without Admin Rights (Applies to Steam also). You have a Game Drive (So do I) but only mention files being there is personal choice. The modding reasons are the priority. personal preferences should be avoided if possible and explained as such if not. MO v1.1.2 is current Stable release, using the Betas isn't for beginners and being Betas the info can change. LOOT video is out of date again, also Internal LOOT is for quick repeat sorting of established setup. It does not replace full LOOT, you did show this but only as a workaround to first beta fault. You are already talking to Tannin, which is great, having a video ready to post when the Betas become the stable is the best way to go. Summary Very Good videos and factually accurate (very important, in a guide) certainly a welcome addition. My points above are all about giving good advice to beginners, learnt through experience and feedback. Everything ever made can be improved. The videos are good advice and that is always a welcome addition. The one thing I've learned, that's the most important lesson for all. The more ways a topic is explained the greater the number of people who understand it. One guide confuses the reader another lights the way. Yet for the next reader, it's the other way round. Should STEP / MO Support Link to them ? Yes, as soon as possible.