blattgeist

Well I prefer to have mod BSAs extracted because then I can do all that kinky stuff to the files.. like optimizing them, hiding.. looking into them with the explorer, editing nif and dds files etc. What you said about priority of files is true, MO handles files inside BSAs the same way as loose files. That's a neat feature indeed but not for people who unpack everything (except for the USPs). I've been talking with some people in one of the MO threads too, especially about bsa extraction and loose files. There's always people who advice against extracting them and others that like it. I definitely like it because of the advanced conflict resolution and directly looking into folders. Ok.. so followers are handled automatically.. I just hope these insta kill spells from Apocalypse don't appear anywhere. Thanks :)

Oh alright TheBloke.. that is indeed a huge issue. So we need to be aware of mods that bring BSAs and their little updates.. that's why I prefer to install the big packages of mods instead of the little updates. After a while the updates get repackaged into the big file. I had no issues with iNPC and iqNPC updates so far. I regularly work with them. Tbh. I'm never satisfied with just following orders without thinking. It's better to understand why things happen and how to deal with them.

Ok well.. I've got everything sorted now. Thanks for the help regarding MO.https://s1.directupload.net/images/140625/mjtmb8el.jpg The thing is that I always extract BSAs when installing mods.. and I did the same with the USPs. But apparently USP textures should not be optimized (with tools like SMCO). So it's better to leave the USP packages as they are, as a whole. Thanks to everyone (including EssArrBee and TheBloke) for helping me out. @Noobzor: Nope, this one:

Thanks for the answer DoubleYou and to everyone else for the help so far. Very interesting reads here.. indeed. *taking notes* Regarding updating mods with BSAs. I see no problem there. You installed the mod as a whole (in my case extracted the BSA), a bit later in time there comes a small update. All that needs to be done here is install the update and choose "merge" during the process. The new files will overwrite any old files.

The Skyrim Director's Cut is a compilation of all of the german USPs (comes with the 4 different USP plugins ofc). I chose to extract the USP BSAs that came with that compilation and manually hid every folder+Esp (textures, meshes, scripts etc.) in MO except for the Strings folder. The german strings folder that comes with the SDC is important, because it fixes numerous spelling mistakes in the german version. I then dragged the SDC behind the other USPs, so that the official DLCs don't overwrite the german strings of the SDC. It's treated like official content yes, but it needs to load after it in order to take effect (only talking about the strings here). I basically reinstalled the USPs after our talk here, by choosing not to extract BSAs during the installation. Though.. what I really did was delete the already extracted content and replace it with the BSA files from the installation archives. Where is your skyrim - invalidation.bsa? Oh.. I just read about it.. it's part of MO's archive system. Nvm then. What the heck.. that other screenshot that I posted does not reflect my actual new archive load order... *sigh* reuploading. Here: https://s1.directupload.net/images/140625/mjtmb8el.jpg This one shows the USP BSAs with the changes I made. Oh god.. these fish sticks are so yummy! *totally unrelated note*

Letting mod files unextracted means that I lose a huge deal of conflict resolution ability. I need to manually hide files when managing my load order. So that's no option. And I don't want to manually extract and repack archives everytime I install a mod or an update. Here is my new archive order: https://s7.directupload.net/images/140625/qtqakglg.jpg By the way, very good explanation @ TheBloke. Thanks for that. The sole reason why I accepted not to extract the USP BSAs as suggested here is because of the argument that was brought up by EssArrBee to avoid optimizing USP and UHRP textures. SMCO by default does not optimize archives unless you tell it to do so. I consider myself as very picky when it comes to load- and install order optimization. I document every little bit that helps to understand how particular mods should be sorted. So conflict resolution between separate files is a must have for me. It's also nice to check into mod folders outside of MO and do stuff like editing nifs, dds files and look into scripts.

Hm.. fair enough. That means.. to untick BSA extractor when installing USPs. You got a point with optimizing USP textures. And I always run SMCO over my whole mod folder, because it's easier. I've had no issues so far.

It's as you described Octopuss. To me it still matters for example when running SMCO over individual textures. That's why I thought I'd get a proper answer: A simple yes or no to my question from before.

Yes, a dummy mod works. I put SKSE.ini into a folder to let it appear as a mod, and to have easier access to it. Can you answer my last question please?^^ Here is a screenshot of my MO archives tab: https://s7.directupload.net/images/140625/ml5ghww3.jpg So do I need to do this special method of sorting official BSAs before their corresponding USP folder in MO even when extracting the USP BSAs during the installation? I know that you said that extracting BSAs is not necessary anymore with the new sorting method, but I generally exctract BSAs and want to continue doing so. That's why I ask if the old method is valid for people who extract their mod (including USP) BSAs during installation.

Does that mean that the old install order (1. DLCs 2. HighResPacks 3. USPs 4. UHRP) is fine for people that extract the USP BSAs?

Well.. when we talk about records it's about plugins now. But I refer to the install order that can be seen in the left part of MO. All the people I've talked to and comments I've read say that I should do as you suggest.. put the DLC BSAs just before their corresponding USP patch in the left panel of MO. .. The biggest problem I had was that I use the "Skyrim Director's Cut" mod, which is a compilation of all the translated german USPs (but ofc 4 separate esp files) with additional features like fixed german string files and fixed german textures. That mod comes as a whole package that can't be seperated. So sorting the DLC BSAs for that package is impossible.. My solution for now is.. that I use the separate german USPs together with a part of the SDC.. hide every folder and file inside the director's cut except for the strings folder. The install order in MO looks like this now: Distant Decal Fix Unofficial Skyrim Patch Dawnguard (BSA) Unofficial Dawnguard Patch Hearthfires (BSA) Unofficial Hearthfire Patch Dragonborn (BSA) Unofficial Dragonborn Patch Skyrim Directors Cut (Strings only) Hi-Res texture packs (BSAs) Unofficial High Resolution Patch (EN, gets updates more often) Unofficial High Resolution Patch (GER, rarely gets updates) Should be ok? Oh and one more thing. I asked a little bit more about ASIS in an earlier post @ noobzor, with a screenie

My part time solution for now is.. I hid every single folder in the Skyrim Director's Cut except for the strings. I'll miss out on the german texture fixes now but that should be no big deal. The SDC which now basically only provides fixed german strings is being loaded before the USPs. It looks like this now (with USP bsas extracted via Mod Organizer's installation routine): Distant Decal Fix Unofficial Skyrim Patch Dawnguard (BSA) Unofficial Dawnguard Patch Hearthfires (BSA) Unofficial Hearthfire Patch Dragonborn (BSA) Unofficial Dragonborn Patch Skyrim Directors Cut (Strings only) Hi-Res texture packs (BSAs) Unofficial High Resolution Patch (EN) Unofficial High Resolution Patch (GER) I hope that solves everything...

SRLE? If that is some kind of mod compilation then no, I have my own running. *sigh* I still don't get it.. Let's try a little example about how I understand overrides: If I have a mod at the very start of my install order, several mods inbetween and a mod at the bottom of my install order which all override the color of a bird with their own color, wouldn't that mean that the last mod has priority over the color? So why does dawnguard BSA need to be right before the UDGP in the install order instead of several places above with other mods inbetween? My Esp load order is right for sure.. but the thing about the install order.. well that's super puzzling. Wasn't the (wrong) install order that I listed above the one that was used by MO before? And that one did not work correctly? Sorry just trying to understand things here. A pretty big problem which I'm having here is that the german string files from the Skyrim Directors Cut are being overriden by dawnguard, dragonborn and hearthfires strings (along with several german textures from the SDC). But I can't put the mod behind the single USKPs. And overall the Directors cut comes in a whole package for people who do not use the single USKPs on top of it. So people that use the whole package will have a problem sorting the official BSAs, cause they just can't because it's a big package with the dragonborn files being the ones in command (if DB was chosen during the installation). By the way: My Unofficial Patch BSAs are extracted. I let MO handle it this way because I like to see where conflicts are and sort mods by hand to resolve them. Ofc. the official BSAs are all intact and will never be touched. Does it play a role regarding that interleaved install order if I extract the USP bsas or not through the MO installation? I guess not.. cause looking at neovalens link he ticked the "use bsa extractor" checkbox too.. so I guess USPs are being extracted.

I only have "Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized" and follow the load order that was described on the mod page, to put it behind the High Res Texture Pack in the install order. I made a screenie. Please take a look: https://s7.directupload.net/images/140625/5ynr6qm7.jpg Note: The UHR patch is 2 times in there because the german version is not regularly updated. The english one on the other hand is - . It comes before the german version because I want the german version to overrides textures with english names on them and let the english version provide new textures that are not present in the german one.. I hope that made sense :o This should be good, right? Or maybe not.. cause now Dawnguard, Dragonborn and Hearthfires override the fixed string files from the german USP bundle that is "Skyrim Directors Cut" :/ Why is this special install order even necessary? Wouldn't it be better to sort the official files like this? Dawnguard (BSA) Hearthfires (BSA) Dragonborn (BSA) Unofficial Skyrim Patch Unofficial Dawnguard Patch Unofficial Hearthfire Patch Unofficial Dragonborn Patch Hi-Res texture packs (BSAs) Unofficial High Resolution Patch I know that's not the recommendation.. but I'd like to try to understand why this is necessary. Are the overrides with this install order not correct? I mean the USPs override all the stuff from the official BSAs that they are supposed to override and the official BSAs come before them and override themselves according to their release date.

What do you mean, should it look like this in the left tab of MO? Unofficial Skyrim Patch Dawnguard (BSA) Unofficial Dawnguard Patch Hearthfires (BSA) Unofficial Hearthfire Patch Dragonborn (BSA) Unofficial Dragonborn Patch Hi-Res texture packs (BSAs) Unofficial High Resolution Patch Or should the high-res texture packs go before the Unofficial Skyrim Patch to let texture overrides of the patches happen?

Yeah that setting was the result of my hour long research.. to get vanilla like experience gain. Glad you find it useful, I forgot about my post over there already :D I will read about the post that you linked later, when my visitor is gone. But good to have a source.

Are you 100% sure that I should move the official BSA archives between the unofficial patches to reflect the load order of the esps? I never did that before.. putting official archives anywhere between my mod folder in Mod Organizer. this is kinda new.. I'm kinda insecure mh :/

Before I continue I wanna ask if this load order is right. Just updated to the new Mod Organizer version 1.2.5 and now it shows the Non-Mod files (official Skyrim files). I manually sorted these according to my knowledge. Please take a look https://s1.directupload.net/images/140624/5zntayxc.jpg ASIS-Dependency.esp and ASIS.esp coming after my personal patches is OK?

Yes it can.. but that's additional fiddling with settings again.. a hassle that not everyone wants to do just because a mod changed something. I melted my brain over that mod and tested crafting expensive potions, to see how much experience I would gain. If I remember correctly.. that took quite a few hours. After a while I said to myself "why do I do this? This is way too much trouble" and just dropped the mod lol. You know, keeping too many values in your brain while trying to set mods right for each other feels just not right to me.. mods should be good as they are, without too many adjustments (outside of MCM menus, that's a whole other topic and it's OK). Sure here and there you have to set some stuff, for example when using DFB Random Encounters together with SIC.. to get a somewhat balanced experience, but these are rare occasions and you don't have to remember them. I have 8 sheets of paper just for the settings of the 46 MCM menus, but well that is OK, cause it's needed and I made my notes why I chose which settings. But everything beyond that should not feel too complicated, otherwise it's not worth the hassle, at least for me. Regarding uncapper.. I rather have everything level at the same slow pace and cap certain things at certain levels because they could imbalance certain stuff (mainly crafting skills, sneak, pickpocket, lockpick). The notes I made for uncapper already take at least 1 dinA4 site of space. No more explanations why I did this and that in there needed. Let's say you take a break of skyrim and want to come back later.. to read your notes and see why you did what.. you would be quite puzzled and irritated if it sounds too complicated.

You mean "Alchemy and Food Balanced Overhaul by mikogamiten"? That one was too hard to balance out for me.. so I skipped it. It sadly changes ingredient prices which really messes up the whole alchemy experience system. I really like "Gromits Cooking Recipes - Food - Drink Overhaul by Gromit" (don't activate the "no food effects" option in iNeed) because it gives food a little extra oomph that enhances your stats for a little while longer. Another nice mod is "Alchemy Redone by Quantumbutterfly". This one gives you an alternative to the vanilla alchemy system. I could not test that yet.. but it's lying in my load order since forever. Regarding Dynamic Potions and stacking heal potions.. from other mods, I think you are right. I use a mod that auto uses a potion every 20 seconds for me, once I fall under a certain amount of magicka/health/stamina. So that I don't need to take all these pots into my favourites menu. It's kinda old but even works with crafted potions: Swift Potion Reborn. This way I am not even tempted to double use potions. I'm using version 1.1 instead of 1.2, because 1.2 is said to be incompatible with player essential effects like "Death Alternative" or "Aurora Spell Stone"s lovers effect I believe? 1.1 has the little problem with brawls instead.. I guess it would be best to try to stay at high HP in brawls in order to not use potions automatically.. or simply deactivate the mod in the mcm menu during a brawl. But to be honest, I think even 1.1 has problems with essential mods, the lovers effect of old aurora doomstone package only worked 50% of the time lol.. I don't know how to get around this yet.

Alright.. I got everything setup then. Exclusion lists look like no important NPC changes were left out.I didn't touch the improved ini files except for the Deadly Dragons adjustment. NPCs now have potions: 2x with a chance of 5, the Enchantment Fix perks and spells.. which hopefully does not fire finger of death too often :o Even after all our talk about perks and increased spawns.. I let them out for now.. I made some notes about what we discussed but it's too much trouble to think about all these difficulty, NPC adding and perk adding mods. Potions and the enchantment fix should be enough to give vanilla NPCs a little edge. Hm... I wonder why we recommend a chance of only 5 for each potion to be given to an NPC. Isn't that a little low? Oh and what about followers or follower mods? Should they be on the exclusion list? I read somewhere in the ASIS comments that the new version has code to take followers into account. Edit: I checked Vilja, Arissa, Sofia and Inigo. They merely got the enchant fix perks, but no spells. So all is fine. A little note about Apocalypse spells: I think all the insta kill spells should go on the exclusion list. If followers happen to use this it would mean making the game too easy. I made a little picture with 2 questions: https://s1.directupload.net/images/140624/pzv3x92f.jpg I checked some of the higher level mage NPCs and they did not have these spells, but on the other hand I don't see these insta kill spells in any exclusion list.

Ok thanks noobzor. I just found a comment while searching for NPC exclusions regarding follower mods in the ASIS forum: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/696547-asis/?p=8970170 Is this true? I suppose not.. otherwise noone would use that feature. Nevermind. Or maybe not "nevermind" hm... I think that statement mostly applies to the added potions feature.

Now that makes everything clear. Sorry.. I had a 32hour day.. that was just too much lol. Oh one more question. I guess that means that I need to choose the option for increased spawns in the patcher if I want to use the actual ingame MCM settings for increased spawns, otherwise they have no effect, right? I imagine that the script gets not added to the NPCs when not using the patcher with the corresponding option..

Hm.. good knowledge. So by adding mods to the list ASIS will exclude only mod added NPCs. If I want any specificially changed ones excluded I'd ahve to manually add their names. Alright. That still leaves the question *looking at Tes5Edit categories* open wether I should check mods for both leveled list and NPC (Actor) list. But I think I can answer that myself.. at least as far as perks go.. because perks can't be added to leveled lists, only to the actual actors. The whole thing I try to understand is how to go about these 2 statements. I'm sure you tried to explain them.. but it did not exactly answer my questions. Or maybe I asked them in the wrong way. I don't know. As written above. Here I simply have to exclude mods that add NPCs to the actor list (not leveled NPC list) and mods that add perks, right? The same question here... exclude only mods that add NPCs to the leveled list (see Tes5Edit "Leveled NPC") or also those mods that add NPCs to the actual actor list (Tes5Edit "NPC (Actor)")? The whole question so far is only about leveled NPC list and actual actor list. I just try to understand at which categories to look in Tes5Edit when searching for mods to exclude. And these 2 categories are mentioned above.

The example? Not really. The first sentence was more clear. But I have to admit that I'm kinda super tired right now so I will see if I can imagine that picture after a good night's sleep. Maybe then everything becomes more clear. Anyway.. back to the question..regarding enemy adding mods + difficult creature-adding mods: Do I have to exclude only mods that add/change leveled NPCs or also these that add/change records in the NPC (actor) list? Maybe you tried to explain that with Bob.. but I didn't get it ^^ Ah well.. if I don't get it by tomorrow I probably never will lol. You can take a look at my load order if you want. Maybe examples are easier that way. Off to bed now, gn8