c0c0c0

I'll give that a shot. Should at least take care of the culling issues in settlements.

What I'm getting from this is that I can, in fact, have my cake and eat it, too. I just have to make trade-offs. So, I should probably delete 3dNPC, plus any Worldspace mods not on your list. I should load Spring Cleaning high (like right after the unofficial patch?), and then think twice before I use to remove anything large. Doing so will result in culling issues. And think twice before removing anything that might affect pathing, because it will eventually result in a bad save. And do not remove anything in a settlement that Spring Cleaning decided not to make scrappable. There was probably a reason for that. And do more saves outside my settlements, or in instances, because they are more likely to not be corrupted. And, finally, accept that crashes are going to happen, and the more things I scrap, the more often they'll happen. That sound about right? Thanks for all the info, Gernash.

So, after even more reading, I strongly suspect that my CTDs are less a result of Spring Cleaning and more a result of me consoling things into Oblivion because the Spring Cleaning guy left them alone specifically because they caused CTDs. But just having Spring Cleaning active un-combines objects and causes big performance issues in places like Hangman's which might cause additional instability. Hangman's is one of the locations where I am most likely to have a bad save. Further, removing anything large is going to have an impact on LODs and possibly culling. These are problems I never had in Skyrim because I never built anything where I needed to move anything else out of the way. The way the player homes were constructed pushed you done a specific, navmeshed and LOD'd path. Are there any good mods that safely clean out these build areas of everything that can be removed without causing a crash? I get the feeling that this is an issue that has confused even a large number of mod authors.

I need to understand more about the scrapping. Since you posted your warning, I've been reading up on it. Apparently, scrapping (or even moving) certain things, like the Privet Hedge in Sanctuary or the rubble pile under the door in Hangman's Alley causes issues with culling and LOD. I know deleting the building in Sanctuary where the workbench is causing culling issues (I made a pre-culling hotkey toggle handled it). I haven't seen much about crashes, but I can see where a missing navmesh can cause one. What about the stuff you scrap using whatever is scrappable in vanilla? Is that all accounted for in the vanilla navmeshing? And if navmesh is the issue, then there really isn't a difference between what is scrapped via a mod and what is scrapped via console. Any structural change (a step, a bridge, a wall, a pile of rubble) that *removes* a path (not blocks, but removes) could cause a crash. Am I understanding that right?

I've been using Spring Cleaning and, of course, the Worldspace mods you list on your guide. Man, I really like Spring Cleaning, but "Worldspace" mods are a pretty big category. So, it's truly one or the other? What about disable/markfordelete? Does that cause the same instability issues? I can live without the free mats, but the fact that humanity has lost the ability to clean up after themselves drives me nuts! For instance, take all the crap in Sanctuary. Do I need to just learn to love that? What about "Scrap Dead Things"? I assume that would not cause a Worldspace conflict. Bodies, particularly ashes, seem to hang around forever. I have fPlayerDisableSprintingLoadingCellDistance=4096. Are you saying I get better stability if I set that to 0? What's the trade-off? FWIW, my crashes are not coming with saves or screen loads. They just ... happen. But I got used to saving in front of every door I encounter from playing Skyrim. I am always running with Dogmeat, though, so he might be triggering navmesh issues. Side issue - did I see you post elsewhere that 3dNPC is not a good idea? I really liked that mod in Skyrim but I can live without it in FO4. Thanks for all the info. I'm glad to know that there *is* a way forward.

I'm actually on Windows 10, which I've heard is actually worse for any game released before it was. Wrye bash, eh? Man, I hope it doesn't come to that. It's sporting the same UI I wasn't loving back when I was playing Oblivion. But maybe it's the virtual directories that FO4 isn't liking. I keep hoping that Nexus releases a new version of NMM that doesn't blow, but I strongly suspect that, despite Tannin's association, it will still be aimed at the lowest common denominator.

Despite an earlier statement I made to the contrary, my game has become unplayably unstable and I'll be starting over. I'll probably be using the version of MO2 abandoned by Tannin, which has its own barrel of issues, but that may be my only path forward with MO2 and FO4.

I'm at about level 35 and my game has become so unstable, I can't sink any more time into this save. I'm reluctantly starting my build over. I'm especially reluctant because I'm not sure what to do better this time. Here are my main three current problems: 1. CTDs. Probably 2-4 a night. These do not appear to be related to specific action or place, so I am doubting mod conflict. However, attempting to reload and do the same thing will often result in another crash. But coming back at a different point in the game will generally *not* cause a crash. This sounds like exactly the sort of memory issues a 64 bit game running on a 64 bit PC using 64 bit MO should *NOT* be having. 2. Corrupted saves. Once or twice a night, after reloading from a crash, my last 3-5 saves crash immediately upon load. Sometimes, I can load an earlier save, and then load a later save. Not often, though. I've lost a lot of progress that way. 3. MO2 Profile Problems. After every single CTD, MO will not relaunch the game without being closed first. Upon closing, I will get error messages about being unable to write to my MO folder. Like this: Several times, this has resulted in a profile being completely obliterated. Mod selection, ESP activation and order, the whole thing. I save my profiles a lot and MO is good about telling what is missing, but with LOOT sorting being as weak as it is, this causes a lot of heartache. I think most of my problems stem from MO2, not really this guide. And I've possibly made it worse by going further "off the reservation" by using the newer version of MO2 supported by LePresidente, Certainly, my issue #3 is a logged bug on that version. And I have, of course, added mods beyond the original suggestion list, although I've tried to be careful with my choices there. Another related oddity is that attempting to launch the game with a desktop shortcut (F4SE) without using the MO4 interface will not work consistently. I've thought that maybe having MO2 already closed while I was playing might keep it from causing further issues, but this will usually result in the game launching without the correct profile, or missing script extender plugins. So, here I go again with the build out. And I have to go ALLLLLLLLLL the way back because it apparently went wrong with the first thing I installed. I'd like to hear if anyone else has had and overcome any of these issues. Is it really as simple as reverting to the MO2 version that Tannin abandoned? If the symbolic link truly necessary for set-up? I'm wondering if this is causing some of my write fail issues. Why is the portable mode not recommended? I was under the impression that Mator's tools seemed to work better in that configuration (yeah, that's something else that won't work for me). I've been really enjoying the game, and this guide has proven immensely helpful. I'm far too OCD to leave well-enough alone so I was going to end up in the hole, one way or another. Still, if anyone of you have any thought on how to dig myself out, I'd much appreciate it.

Can't believe I missed that. I've been a little crashy, so maybe that will help. LOOT has the majority of my load in alphabetical order. LOOT does not get the same attention in the FO4 world as it does over on Skyrim.

So I'm guessing roach butt physics is completely out of the question?

I'm still running on an old executable and the unofficial patch that went with it because I was waiting on SKSE and related files to adjust. Seems like this would open up a large can of worms.

That is some world class funny. Kinda reminds me of this. As for resetting a settler, I kinda thought that was what "recycleactor" did...

Well, Disable, the markfordelete, then. I await your patch as INNR is waaaay over my head. I enabled nothing in DCMS beyond the actual renaming feature, and I've never used one of its manual scripts. I will say the passive notices you get when entering a settlement or after an attack are pretty cool and I sincerely hope they aren't causing problems. I really hope the author is still out there trying to fix this thing.

So, just to be sure I got this, you take problematic settlers off the settlement and kill them, then look at their equipment? What do you see that tells you the equipment is bugged? Out of curiosity, what would happen is you just disabled the settler? Would your settlement numbers be off?

I think that anything that adds variety without borking immersion is a definite good thing. Just have to make sure that whatever items are added don't look silly next to the core aesthetic.

I was looking at that today. Spring Cleaning hasn't been updated in a while, and there are some items it can't remove. But the comments section on Scrap Everything look a little scary. Like, sure, this is more recent, but it's kinda buggy. And it hasn't been updated this year. I'm more inclined to stick with something that is at least bug free.

I did a looting run through Concord this morning with your new NavMesh patch active. I was at or around 60 FPS the entire time. I did not see any of the occlusion issues I had with a previous run. What strikes me as odd is that I get a pretty significant frozen screen - maybe 5-6 seconds long, every time I get near Concord, like it's trying to load a ton of new textures, but then my performance is just fine once it unfreezes. Something odd in that town.

I'm having this same issue on 2.0.8.2. Windows 10, FO4. I haven't seen any actual impact on my ability to manage the game though. I just have to shut down MO2 after every game exit, and go through 3-4 error alerts. I know you've published a new version since the last post on this thread but, not knowing if this was addressed, I figured the info couldn't hurt.

I'm using this on Win10 for my FO4 game, and I know that Win10 is known to have issues. I've certainly encountered a few, but not enough to make this game worth playing without MO2. Do you want bug reports on this platform, or am I just going to have to learn to live with occasional bugs on this platform?

As long as their gear doesn't change, I'm okay with changes to names and maybe assignments. I'm looking at getting around to implementing Salvage Beacons, and the author has a dim view of DCMS. It probably causes problems with assignments to his beacon tower. If it occasionally needs to be reset, that's okay. I've had enough settlers just die from raids so that an apparent change in personnel shouldn't hurt my immersion.

What are your thoughts on the safety of using "Don't Call Me Settler"? I noticed it's on your recommended list but, or course, the author has taken it down. The page says he's fixing it, but some people have also heard he got disillusioned after the whole stolen mods fiasco. I have an old copy and right now, I'm using it strictly for the naming feature. I don't use any of the management scripts. Do you have a good enough understanding of the flaws in this one to have an opinion on whether or not that's safe enough? I understand that when this one goes wrong, it's usually many hours into the game, at which point you are irrevocably borked. But many people say they've used it forever with no issues.

Sure. I was actually planning on doing a scavenging run to Concord tonight, anyway. Do I use both NavmeshOverwrites-Patch AND Navmesh-Patch? BTW, here's something people might want to consider if they are experiencing weird occlusion effects where things disappear if you look a certain direction, particularly after removing buildings in Sanctuary. I've also seen it with some buildings in Concord - possibly related to a mod that changes the area (Beantown?). I just rigged up a Hotkey: U=tpc. Toggles occlusion culling. I use this in Sanctuary, and then turn it off when I leave town because it has an FPS effect.

Wait.. You're going to get me up to 90 FPS! ;-) Sweet! I think the only scrapping mod I added was "Scrap Dead Things". Dunno if that's a disqualifier for the Worldspace changes. Hope not since it didn't appear to help much last night in my testing. As for playing settlements, I find that's almost all I'm doing on this play through. Without Shawn to drive me to Diamond City (due to an alternate start), keeping the settlements alive seems to be the only task that really makes sense. Amazing the impact one mod can have. Some additional mods to consider for your list, hopefully in keeping with the "same-but-better" theme: SnapBeds (bunk beds just make sense) Covenant Unrestricted (because the vanilla handling for that place is just nonsense) Free Weapon Downgrades (now works same as armor) Better warning for settlements being attacked (because, ya know, people are dying) Settlement Management Software (because it's amazing) Autosave Manager (because this thing crashes at the most inconvenient moments) Outfit Switcher and FO4Hotkeys Radio Controls (because fiddling with the Pipboy takes me out of the game)

Perfect! You may be right - I could have been using it all along. The settlement mods section is a bit of an embarrassment of riches (not complaining!) so it could be I just didn't know what was contributing to what I was using. But this is an elegant answer to my confusion. I appreciate you putting that together. And so fast!

No, I started a new game off of this build out, although I've added a handful of additional mods since then. Don't think I'm missing folders - I did a re-install of the mod just to be sure. I have all the esps. Am I even looking in the right place? Should it be on the main build menu, at the end? I'll try that link. Wait - doesn't this only fix the default categories? I have all that. I'm just missing OCDecorator. At least I think I am. I can't find it. And I'm an OCD Decorator, so I need it.