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MO + SKSE = Lag and Lower Framerate!

kornest

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kornest Watcher

kornest

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Posted

Hi people, first of all let me introduce myself. I'am kornest! Pleasure clear.png
After some time of playing skyrim in my PS3 I decided to buy it from steam to finally start playing with some mods.

Now, after some research (Nexus mod manager vs Mod Organizer) I decided to install MO and I applied 2 mods, both of them requiring SKSE to function propelly.
Here's my dillema now:
If i start Skyrim from Skyrim launcher or SKSE, the game plays very smoothly but without the mods activated (the ones who actually need SKSE to work), but for some reason if I start the game through MO in the option SKSE, the game runs with both mods activated but I get a framerate drop. I'am talking like 20 FPS instead of the 50FPS I get on starting Skyrim via the 1st way described.

Any help or tips for this?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

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Octopuss
Octopuss

What on earth have you done to the text? It's horrible. Why?!   And you provided absolutely no information about the problem whatsoever. Noone can help you if you use the "help my PC doesn't work" sty

Octopuss
Octopuss

Yay, keep the negative rep coming. I missed it!

38 answers to this question

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Maddin Citizen

Maddin

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Jarl,
as a modding preperation recommended by S.T.E.P., my whole Steam Folder is located on a different storage device then my windows installation/programs folder. 
 
@GrantSP: I've posted the MO LogFile below, started w/o admin rights. Has this forum a spoiler function - because the log is quite long?
I'll do some more testing and frame benchmarking to verify my standpoint - stay tuned! ;-) After reading the OP topic again, I have to admit that you are right - his problem differs a "little" bit. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

@Greg: thx for the [ spoiler /spoiler ] tip ;)

Edited by Maddin
Added spoiler tag
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Maddin Citizen

Maddin

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, I'm done with testing! Some specs to consider:

 

  • Windows 10 Pro
    CPU core i5-4690 | 8GB Ram
    GPU AMD R9 390 @1025/1500 | Crimson Driver 16.3.2
     
  • AMD Crimson "Power Efficiency = Off" won't work with applications run in administator mode. I used ClockBlocker instead!
     
  • To keep the testing parcour as consistent as possible, I've decided to start a new game and use the Skyrim intro sequence until the first autosave (character creation) w/o moving the mouse/gamepad. 
     
  • I restarted the computer each time, before I ran a test!
     
  • Vanilla Skyrim with only Update.esm, Dragonborn.esm, HeartFires.esm and Dawnguard.esm TES5 cleaned and ENBoost in the data directory
    [MEMORY]
ExpandSystemMemoryX64=false
ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true
DisableDriverMemoryManager=false
DisablePreloadToVRAM=false
EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=false
ReservedMemorySizeMb=512
VideoMemorySizeMb=3714
EnableCompression=false
AutodetectVideoMemorySize=false
  • SKSE 1.07.03 is installed, BUT w/o the SKSE.ini to keep the Skyrim directiory Vanilla and the test coherent! This means no DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768 and no ScrapHeapSizeMB=256.
     
  • The Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini for Steam and Mod Organizer are exactly the same! 
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8205360/Skyrim.ini
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8205360/SkyrimPrefs.ini

Let's get startet:

When I look at the graph below, I certainly can say that on my system Mod Organizer has a significant performance impact! I think this problem arrived with Windows 10 Pro! At first I thought it might have been the statistics tool I am using (Riva Tuner) - Fraps got the same frame drops nevertheless! My next try was the admin mode for Mod Organizer which operates quite well, but the Crimson Driver Power Efficiency @ off won't keep a constant 1025Mhz core clock (in graph equal to @ PE). What surprised me, was the weaker performance of a ClockBlocked 1025Mhz core speed! Even the frame times increased again (second picture)!

 

48ckihbi.jpg

 

jltrtabx.jpg

Edited by Maddin
  • 0
GrantSP Talos

GrantSP

Posted
Posted

I notice from your logs that you are not using MO's builtin archive management. Could re-run the tests and use that feature?

 

I'm not familiar with either AMD Crimson "Power Efficiency = Off" or ClockBlocker that you are using to enhance your framerates but I will say this: every layer of software you add onto a 'hooked' process will mean an increase in processing time.

 

This is why the Steam overlay or other "game boosting" tools are advised to be turned off when you use MO.

  • 0
Tannin Knight

Tannin

Posted
Posted

MO cannot actively cause slowdowns! MO code only gets run during file lookup. During regular gaiming the overhead from MO is 0. The only thing that may make a performance difference is that MO may influence if/whilch files get opened (ini files, maybe shaders) and badly written libraries that do api hooking (potentially part of the driver) may fail to load. The first is the whole point of Mo, the latter I can't change because that would be a bug in that software, not mo

  • 0
Maddin Citizen

Maddin

Posted
Posted

Is the archive managmenet function activated with the check box marked in red below?

 

 

 

A test with "Automatic Archive Invalidation" had no visible impact. But I found a different hint in the  forum: "-forcesteamloader" added as a SKSE executable argument. This seems to improve performance, but not as much as the admin rights.

 

 

Anyway, thanks for your input. I still have no clue what causes this stuttering but can handle the admin workaround - maybe until the SKSE's memory blocks list, I'll see!

  • 0
Greg Talos

Greg

Posted
Posted

In the right pane click the Archives tab and then check the box labeled "Have MO manage archives". Also make sure all the *.bsa files in this tab are checked.

  • 0
Maddin Citizen

Maddin

Posted
Posted

Hi Jarl, thanks for the clarification. I restarted a Skyrim Revisited Mod Guide from scratch and therefore my MO has all the options enabled, suggested by neovalen. ("Have MO manage archives" was checked btw.)

  • 0
Miki Watcher

Miki

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello.I have a similar issue.

After 3 months without playing the game I tried to finish the modding I started and immediately noticed a 20 to 30 fps decrease on my regular test path from Riverwood to Whiterun with a blank save  (I am a CV1/Vorpx, I take FPS Very seriously).

 

I immediately suspected an hardware issue but after enough benchmarks and clean driver installations I was able to tell it wasn't it (I have an 980TI and 4790K), nor was it a setting issue on the control panel.

 

Launching the game through MOD Organizer with every mods unchecked didn't improve the frame-rate, so I assumed my game was broken.

After a clean installation of everything (the game, mod organizer etc) I launched the game via the normal launcher as a quick test with settings similar to what I used before (I play in virtual reality so I didn't use anything that would lower my FPS to begin with) and I had my old Frame-rate back.

 

But then I was in for a huge surprise when I installed MOD Organizer and SKSE, launched the game and saw, once again, a 20 to 25 FPS decrease on a totally vanilla MOD Organizer (no lag spikes at all, only the framerate is impacted).

I suspected SKSE this time, but no, SKSE wasn't the culprit when launched alone.

 

And finally, after all my troubles I started to suspect MOD Organizer itself, the one and only thing I would never incriminate because it can't lower the FPS.

 

Tests did confirm it was indeed MOD Organizer that was lowering the FPS.

 

It has now been 10 days that I am taking absolutely all my free time to try and fix it and sadly, for the first time, I have absolutely run out of ideas.

 

I do not run any program supposed to improve FPS/etc in the background and obviously I am aware of simple things such as ini locations/user permissions etc.

 

I welcome any idea really as to what is going on.Lately I have come to the conclusion that some program has to interfere somehow but I just can't find any issue at all on what is running on my computer.

Edited by Miki
  • 0
GrantSP Talos

GrantSP

Posted
Posted

Welcome to STEP @Miki. Check that Steam Overlay or perhaps your graphics card manufacturer's software isn't active. As this thread has already shown there is NO OVERHEAD involved with MO once the game is started, any issues you see are not related to MO.

  • 0
Miki Watcher

Miki

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thank you for your reply.It isn't a steam overlay issue.

My benchmarks have shown similar GPU usage with or without Mod Organizer.Actually, running with Mod Organizer did show a GPU usage around 5% lower but I do not consider this difference to be significant enough, as it wouldn't cause a loss of 20 to 30 fps in average (the CPU did run at the same speed).Thus I do not think it is Nvidia software related, even though I do believe Mod Organizer has to be conflicting with an other program somehow.

Edited by Miki
  • 0
Greg Talos

Greg

Posted
Posted

Check your ini files. When you launch Skyrim by itself, it uses the ini files in your games folder (e.g. C:\Users\[username]\Documents\My Games\Skyrim). When you launch Skyrim from Mod Organizer, it uses the ini files in the profile folder (e.g. C:\Skyrim\ModOrganizer\profiles\[profile]). Even better, use BethINI to optimize both sets of ini files for optimal performance.

  • 0
GrantSP Talos

GrantSP

Posted
Posted
  On 9/27/2016 at 8:19 AM, Miki said:

Thank you for your reply.It isn't a steam overlay issue.

My benchmarks have shown similar GPU usage with or without Mod Organizer.Actually, running with Mod Organizer did show a GPU usage around 5% lower but I do not consider this difference to be significant enough, as it wouldn't cause a loss of 20 to 30 fps in average (the CPU did run at the same speed).Thus I do not think it is Nvidia software related, even though I do believe Mod Organizer has to be conflicting with an other program somehow.

Take note of the comment #21 just further up the page. That is the author of the programme, @Tannin. I think it is a safe bet that he would know what is and isn't possible with regard to any portion of his code remaining active in memory.

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