Potential GPU load issue

[XiNAVRO]

Hello again,

 

After searching relevant forums for a while (Bethesda Skyrim forums / Nexus forums / ENB forums / nVidia forums) and personally testing for about two weeks time, I am certain that this is an issue with Mod Organizer itself.

 

I was using the previous version v1.2.0 for a while since v1.2.1 had an issue with properly creating SKSE shortcuts - then I realized, whenever I run Skyrim with Mod Organizer and quit afterwards, any application in Windows that uses the GPU would show visual artifacts. This was happening with MPC, VLC, KMPlayer (video playback softwares) and Google Chrome, resulting in blocky artifacts / barcode resembling artifacts. The artifacts, however, did not show in any other games - just applications that would rely on the GPU. I tried running applications in windowed / borderless mode to ensure this.

 

Since the latest update v1.2.9 it seems like artifacts aren't showing up anymore, but on the other hand evga Precision is showing that the GPU is in constant load after closing Skyrim.

 

I am running evga GTX 780 with GeForce 337.88 drivers, Skyrim is running on SKSE 1.7.0 alpha with ENB v254 on fullscreen mode using the standard Mod Organizer launch mechanism. I have tried with a different combination of tools - previous version of GeForce driver, MSI AfterBurner instead of evga Precision, 1.6.11 build of SKSE, and an older distribution of ENB, and borderless mode as well. Still no dice, and this does not happen without Mod Organizer.

 

If I were to assume I would say that the proxy function that MO incorporates when launching Skyrim is causing Windows to mistakenly think that there is a D3D9 application running at all times, hence causing the GPU to be on high load even after closing Skyrim.

 

Not sure if this is just happening to me or if it's a bug that has not been fully ironed out yet.

[Tannin]

MO doesn't proxy the directx dlls, ENB does that.

MO doesn't have anything to do with accelerated graphics, it's a filesystem tool.

 

-> I can say with confidence bordering to certainty that this is NOT caused by MO.

[Aiyen]

In cases of constant load you should be able to locate which processes are using the resources, and hence failing to shutdown properly. Also the fact that you get graphical artifacts most like means that it is a video memory issue on your card. I would RMA it now since even running at full peak capacity there should not be any graphical artifacts of that type. 

[XiNAVRO]

MO doesn't proxy the directx dlls, ENB does that.MO doesn't have anything to do with accelerated graphics, it's a filesystem tool.-> I can say with confidence bordering to certainty that this is NOT caused by MO.

I have to disagree. Since it only happens when I'm using ENB + MO, and this does not happen with just the ENB without MO, I would say it has to do with how the proxy / hooking works between two DLLs. As I have stated in the OP I have tried numerous different setups and versions to ensure that this was the case. Also the fact that a version change in MO resolving the artifact issue but still forcing the GPU to be on load would indicate that the culprit is, in fact, MO.

 

If you have an alternate plausible theory or can suggest an alternate method of testing to confirm that it isn't MO's proxy doing this, I'm all ears. Rather than putting MO's proxy function itself at fault I would rephrase it to "potential compatibility issue between ENB and MO", if that sounds more accurate.

 

 

In cases of constant load you should be able to locate which processes are using the resources, and hence failing to shutdown properly. Also the fact that you get graphical artifacts most like means that it is a video memory issue on your card. I would RMA it now since even running at full peak capacity there should not be any graphical artifacts of that type. 

Beg your pardon, but have you read the OP? Does not happen without MO, does not happen in other games, does not happen with any other combination period.

 

 

EDIT: Just to ensure that it isn't the VRAM causing this, I pulled out my old GTX 570 from my media center machine to replace my current GTX 780 and tested this. Results are the same. Unfortunately I don't have any Radeon cards at hand to test this to see if it's an Nvidia specific issue that happens with MO + ENB.

 

Now that I think of it my installation of Skyrim is proxied by total of no less than FIVE applications: Steam, SKSE, ENB, Mod Organizer and Nvidia ShadowPlay. Since the last MO update from 1.2.0 to 1.2.9 I haven't seen artifacts so I assumed ENB + MO was at fault here, but the current GPU load could be ENB + MO + ShadowPlay. The plot thickens.

Edited July 11, 2014 by XiNAVRO

[DoubleYou]

If it is something you found different across different versions of MO, I would question whether your ini files were the same. At anyrate, I cannot think of a scenario where MO could possibly cause this. MO only virtualizes the data directory, not even the root directory.

[Aiyen]

Yes I did read the OP. 

 

If you say you have constant load after you close MO then which process is this load attributed to ? The GPU or CPU does not just run at 100% without some process calling for it, and you should be able to look at your running processes afterwards to figure out which. 

 

That said then good thing that you had a second card to test with. Guess that more or less exclude bad memory on the cards. 

I would be most inclined to suspect shadowplay at this point. Does this still happen if shadowplay is entirely disabled ? 

[XiNAVRO]

If it is something you found different across different versions of MO, I would question whether your ini files were the same. At anyrate, I cannot think of a scenario where MO could possibly cause this. MO only virtualizes the data directory, not even the root directory.

The issue really has nothing to do with data directory at all; MO's virtualization feature isn't the suspect. MO's hooking and proxy function is.

 

Yes I did read the OP. 

 

If you say you have constant load after you close MO then which process is this load attributed to ? The GPU or CPU does not just run at 100% without some process calling for it, and you should be able to look at your running processes afterwards to figure out which. 

 

That said then good thing that you had a second card to test with. Guess that more or less exclude bad memory on the cards. 

I would be most inclined to suspect shadowplay at this point. Does this still happen if shadowplay is entirely disabled ? 

Task manager shows no peculiar process taking up system resources - however, when I quit all the nvidia applications it did stop the load meter spiking upwards. After some more testing in depth, I have concluded that the issue only happens when I am using ENB (wrapper), MO and Nvidia ShadowPlay on top. I have tried enabling manual ShadowPlay recording but after quitting the game the recording ends. However the application is still running and continues to take up the GPU load.

 

This does not happen if any of the three are not running: ENB, MO and ShadowPlay. Interesting.

[Tannin]

I have to disagree. Since it only happens when I'm using ENB + MO, and this does not happen with just the ENB without MO, I would say it has to do with how the proxy / hooking works between two DLLs. As I have stated in the OP I have tried numerous different setups and versions to ensure that this was the case. Also the fact that a version change in MO resolving the artifact issue but still forcing the GPU to be on load would indicate that the culprit is, in fact, MO.

Correlation does not imply causation

[Aiyen]

So at this point it is most likely some weird issue when you have too many proxy things going on at the same time. I am not sure how shadowplay does its thing, but I guess it also does some directx calls to capture screen frames for recordings. I guess this would be something worth asking about on the nvidia support forums for shadowplay. 

 

Just curious that MO have any influence at all...

[Tannin]

There is no convincing evidence it does. By enabling MO the OP

a) activated MOs hooks

b) activated different game settings

c) activated mods including skse plugins

d) potentially changed the permissions with which the game runs if he runs MO as administrator

 

While it's possible MOs hooks have an influence this is not at all proven.

And even if MOs hooks are involved that doesn't mean they are guilty, usually MOs hooks are "good citizens" in that they don't break foreign hooks.

 

Btw.: the list is not complete, there are further libraries that might hook api functions, i.e. the windows application compatibility layer works by hooking functions, nvidia optimus does and there is a good chance your virus scanner does too. And various DRM systems. And all the fun pieces of malware you have installed.

[XiNAVRO]

There is no convincing evidence it does. By enabling MO the OPa) activated MOs hooksb) activated different game settingsc) activated mods including skse pluginsd) potentially changed the permissions with which the game runs if he runs MO as administratorWhile it's possible MOs hooks have an influence this is not at all proven.And even if MOs hooks are involved that doesn't mean they are guilty, usually MOs hooks are "good citizens" in that they don't break foreign hooks.Btw.: the list is not complete, there are further libraries that might hook api functions, i.e. the windows application compatibility layer works by hooking functions, nvidia optimus does and there is a good chance your virus scanner does too. And various DRM systems. And all the fun pieces of malware you have installed.

I have considered STEP community to be one of the more mature, constructive places where I can exchange opinions in a civilized manner. Guess I will have to reconsider that from now on.

 

The fact that I am using ShadowPlay insists that I am on Windows, hence there will be the base APIs that will run for standard Windows application, drivers, also DirectX. The fact that I am using GTX 780 and swapping it with a previous GTX 570 for testing indicates that I am using a desktop PC, hence no chance for Optimus. I haven't used any virus scanner since the days of Windows 2000 and haven't had a single issue since. None of the files related are within Program Files (x86) and none requires specific administrator privileges - any Windows user with common sense and history of using x64 version over the past few releases would know to avoid that on principle. You can assume how a DRM from an unrelated software can cause issue with Skyrim, yet you are ignoring the fact that upgrading MO and potentially changing how the hooking / proxy function resolved the artifact issue. MO having issues with SKSE shortcuts in v1.2.1, no matter which mechanism was chosen in the menu, indicates that between v1.2.0 and the current v1.2.9 that there was a change in how the proxy function works. You can check this in the MO bug tracker / Nexus MO thread for users reporting this issue.

 

Also the needless, baseless accusation that I have malware on my system. On one hand I understand you are, on a daily basis, dealing with users who can barely tell the difference between Windows installation and sorcery, but this sort of comment isn't helping at all.

 

 

If you have an alternate plausible theory or can suggest an alternate method of testing to confirm that it isn't MO's proxy doing this, I'm all ears.

I have so far stated my observation, and the methods I have used to circumvent certain objects in question and reprocess my setup. Quoting myself, I'm open to suggestions.

Edited July 12, 2014 by XiNAVRO

[phazer11]

You both should cool off a bit.

 

Also, XiNAVRO you have yourself admitted that it is not strictly a MO problem. If it only occurs with Shadowplay, ENB, and MO running but not all three. You've also said that Shadowplay is being buggy and not stopping once the game is exit. To me, this sounds like a Shadowplay issue where Shadowplay does not want to play nicely with others. I would use an uninstaller such as Geek Uninstaller and remove your GeForce Experience and Shadowplay before running Display Driver Uninstaller and telling it that you want to reboot into Safe Mode before uninstalling (as it prompts you to do).

Then I would download the latest Nvidia Driver and see if that resolves the issue.

 

Links:

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

https://www.geekuninstaller.com/download

 

Please try that and get back with us.

[XiNAVRO]

ShadowPlay is only doing that when ENB and MO are involved - it has no issues by itself, or with ENB only, or in any other game. The issue emerges only when all three are enabled. I have also used the borderless option that ENB offers to see without turning ShadowPlay off to see if it's the ShadowPlay installation itself being somehow faulty, and this wasn't the case either (ShadowPlay does not kick in unless the game is running in fullscreen mode, and by using borderless mode ShadowPlay is still in the background but the hooking itself does not happen).

 

As stated in the OP I have downgraded my drivers initially to see if it was a driver specific issue, and upgraded it back to its current state. I did neglect this information, but GeForce Experience and Nvidia Inspector, evga Precision were all uninstalled and reinstalled fresh to ensure that nothing was leaving any residue.

[phazer11]

Must have missed that when I read the OP. Have you been able to try any other games that have ENB and Mod Organizer support? Like Fallout 3?

[XiNAVRO]

Been testing extensively to see if the behavior pops up elsewhere. Seems like my initial suspicion is actually correct - tested with ENB v249 on Fallout: New Vegas, game was playing perfectly fine until the moment I quit. Unlike what happened to Skyrim though, this time it right up showed "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" error. This of course is with ENB + MO + ShadowPlay (in fullscreen mode to make sure that ShadowPlay actually kicks in).

 

To ensure that this wasn't a driver specific issue, I rolled back down from my current 337.88 to 334.89 and tested it. Exact same issue again - Skyrim shows GPU load after quitting and it won't recover until I force quit ShadowPlay application or re-log my Windows account. Fallout: NV still shows the same "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" error. Both behavior does not happen when any of the three - ENB, MO, ShadowPlay - is not loaded.

 

Seems like I am stuck between a very specific rock and a hard place.

 

 

 

EDIT: Spelling.

Edited July 15, 2014 by XiNAVRO

[Neovalen]

I have found Shadowplay to be fairly buggy with Beth games... But works great in other more modern engines such as Frostbite 3, etc.