Help and recommendations with modlist appreciated

[Eplebit]

Hey.

I'm  newcomer to Skyrim (although I have around 500 hours in heavily modified Oblivion and Fallout 3/NW, so I wouldn't call myself a complete n00b with modding, just, well, almost...) and was looking for the "ultimate" setup for a great play through. After looking at the myriad of mods out there I was very happy when I found your step guides. First I installed everything from STEP 2.2.8, but then later changed to 2.2.9 (probably stupid? And can't use the compatibility patches because of missing masters). After that I wanted to try the Skylight ENB that I found recommended on this page and installed mods recommended with that, then I installed some mods that Gopher recommended, then I found out about the STEP explorer pack that sounded cool, then I installed some mods from other STEP packs like Vega and Survival. Wanted to start the game and suddenly found out that I had way too many esp's. I hadn't really thought about it because wrye bash mostly fixed that problem for Oblivion.

 

So I started removing a few mods, and merged some patches to get the esp-count down. So now it's at least low enough that I can start the game.

 

Problem is, I must admit that I'm completely lost. I'm not sure what I need anymore, what I shouldn't have, what I should have etc. So I wondered if anyone could give me some advice on how to improve my mod list.

 

I've included the boss output here:

 

 

Skyrim.esm Active

Update.esm Active

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active

Dawnguard.esm Active

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active

HearthFires.esm Active

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active

Dragonborn.esm Active

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active

Wyrmstooth.esp Version 1.10 Active

Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm Active

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm Version 3.1 Active

ETaC - RESOURCES.esm Active

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm Active

mannyBlackRock.esm Active

mannyDragonhead.esm Active

moonpath.esm Active

ORS_MorthalPain.esm Active

ORS_SolitudeGate.esm Active

WinterholdDestruction.esm Active

REGS - Resources.esm Active

HighResTexturePack01.esp Active

HighResTexturePack02.esp Active

HighResTexturePack03.esp Active

Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp Version 1.1.6 Active

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp Active

Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp Active

Chesko_Frostfall.esp Active

Rainbows.esp Version 1.05 Active

SplashofRain.esp Version 1.04 Active

ExpandedSnowSystems-CoT.esp Active

ADS.esp Active

AOS.esp Active

BWS.esp Active

DragonShoutVoice.esp Active

IHSS.esp Active

Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp Active

randomthunder.esp Active

realrainCoT.esp Version 4 Active

Skylight-Torches.esp Active

Skylight_DBWP.esp Active

Skylight_DGWP.esp Active

mintylightningmod.esp Active

MintyLightningMod_COT_Patch.esp Active

Cutting Room Floor.esp Version 1.0.5 Active

StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp Active

StaticMeshImprovementMod-DragonbornTernFix.esp Active

StaticMeshImprovementMod-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp Active

TradeBarter.esp Active

83Willows_101BUGS_V4_LowRes.esp Version 4.1 Active

Auto Unequip Ammo.esp Active

BellyachesNewDragonSpecies.esp Active

BirdsHFclean.esp Active

Bring Out Your Dead.esp Version 1.2.4 Active

ClamsDropPearls.esp Active

Dead Body Collision.esp Active

Disease Descriptions.esp Active

DD_Dawnguard Additions.esp Active

DD_Dragonborn Additions.esp Active

Dual Sheath Redux.esp Active

Requires: Java Runtime Environment 7 update 17+

fFastTravelSpeedMult_4.esp Version 1.0 Active

Immersive Patrols Merged All.esp Active

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Skylight.esp Active

Moss Rocks.esp Active

Moss Rocks_DB.esp Active

ORM-Arvak.esp Active

PilgrimsDelight.esp Active

Point The Way.esp Version 1.0.2 Active

Populated Dungeons Caves Ruins for USKP.esp Active

Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp Active

ShootingStars.esp Version 1.041 Active

Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp Version v6.5.2 Active

Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp Version v6.5.2 Active

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp Active

SkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.esp Version 1.1 Active

SMDropLitTorch.esp Active

Traps Make Noise.esp

WetandCold.esp Version 1.402 Active

WetandCold - Ashes.esp Version 1.07 Active

Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp Active

Footprints.esp Active

Footprints - Ash.esp Active

NoxUE2.00.esp Active

RaceMenu.esp Active

SkyUI.esp Version 4.1 Active

iHUD.esp Active

Cloaks.esp Active

Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp Active

1nivWICCloaks.esp Version 2.3 Active

Incompatible with: Cloaks of skyrim, get the compatibility patch in the WIC optional files.

Elemental Staves.esp Active

ExplosiveBoltsVisualized.esp Active

Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp Active

Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp Version 7.1 Active

imp_helm.esp Active

imp_helm_imp.esp Active

imp_helm_dawn.esp Active

Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp Active

Lock Overhaul.esp Active

DeadlyDragons.esp Active

SkyRe_Main.esp Active

SkyRe_Main_Fix.esp Active

SkyRe_Combat.esp Active

SkyRe_EncounterZones.esp Active

SkyRe_EnemyAI.esp Active

SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp Active

SkyRe_EnemyScaling_Fix.esp Active

SkyRe_StandingStones.esp Active

SkyRe_StandingStones_Fix.esp Active

SkyRe_Survivalism.esp Active

Unique Uniques.esp Version 1.5 Active

CCO_WAFTrueWeapons_Patch.esp

CCO_Frostfall_Patch.esp Active

CCO_SIC_Patch.esp Active

SkyRe_SIC Crossbowfix.esp Version v6.1.2

AdalMatar.esp Active

Note: V1.1+: This file contains 3 deleted NavMesh records that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically, and which are reported by the mod author to be harmless artifacts from Creation Kit export.

quest_andtherealmsofdaedra.esp Active

Apple garden.esp Active

BetterDGEntrance.esp Version 1.0 Active

CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp Active

Warning: Enhanced Lights and FX alters some lighting in the College of Winterhold which is incompatible with this mod. Please see Immersive College of Winterhold's Readme for how to alter Enhanced Lights and FX yourself to make it compatible.

CWIDawnDragonPatch.esp Active

Daggercross_Alley.esp Active

DragonmournInn.esp Active

Warning: This file contains 4 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.

Gildergreen Regrown.esp Version 1.2.6 Active

tos_granitehall.esp Active

Hebrock_Der Schatten von Meresis - EV.esp Active

high hrothgar overhaul.esp Active

Immersive Orc Strongholds.esp Version 0.54 Active

Inconsequential NPCs.esp Active

Inconsequential NPCs - Enhancement.esp Active

Inns and Taverns.esp Active

Warning: This file contains 1 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.

moonpath_questdata.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.

MzarkWonders.esp Active

DawnofRiften.esp Active

Nightingale Hall.esp Active

quest_nomercy.esp Active

ORS_ChaptersLinker.esp Active

ORS_DremoraUpdate.esp Active

quest_pitfighter.esp Active

quest_pitfighter_dlc01.esp Active

Run For Your Lives.esp Version 1.2.4 Active

When Vampires Attack.esp Version 1.1.1 Active

quest_seaofghosts.esp Active

Sky Haven Temple M&M3.esp Active

Snowbound Acres.esp Active

TheDomain.esp Active

Warning: This file contains 1 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp Version 1.2.7 Active

SkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.esp Active

Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp Active

Book Covers Skyrim.esp Active

BlockSparkles.esp Active

Civil War Overhaul.esp Active

Distant DetailHF.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 694 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.

FireAndIceOverhaul.esp Active

Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp Active

SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp Version 3.0.esp Active

Paralysis.esp Active

Rebirth Monster.esp Active

Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp Version v1 Active

Convenient Horses.esp Version 14950 Active

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp Active

dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp Active

EnhancedBlood-ImprovedCombatSounds.esp Active

Soul Gems Differ - E.esp Active

TheChoiceIsYours.esp Active

TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp Active

Thieves Guild Requirements.esp Active

aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp Active

Nausicaa's Tweaker.esp Active

REGS - Better Docks.esp Active

Drinking Fountains of Skyrim.esp Active

ETaC - Complete.esp Active

ETaC - Complete LoS Patch.esp Active

ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp Active

ETaC - Complete EWDR Patch.esp Active

Helgen Reborn.esp Version 105.3 Active

RavenRockExpanded.esp Active

tos_amber_guard.esp Active

tos_laintardale_hf.esp Active

HearthfireChimneys.esp Active

Understone Keep Repair.esp Active

REGS - Better City Entrances.esp Active

Oblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp Active

UniqueBorderGates-All.esp Active

UniqueBorderGates-All-PointTheWay.esp Active

UniqueBorderGates-All-BetterDGEntrance.esp Active

Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp Version 2.3 Active

DawnofWindhelm.esp Active

BFT Ships and Carriages - HF.esp Active

Contains dirty edits: 64 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.

ETaC - BFT Patch.esp Active

Provincial Courier Service.esp Version 1.2.2 Active

RealisticRoomRental.esp Active

Warning: This file contains 1 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.

BetterQuestObjectives-DB-HF-PDP-SRP-DBFM-CIY-TGR-PRR.esp Active

REGS - Cities.esp Active

ETaC - Complete NSutR Patch.esp Active

REGS Patch - CRF.esp Active

REGS Patch - NSutR + RRR.esp Active

REGS Patch - STEP Extended.esp Active

EnhancedLightsandFX.esp Active

ELFX - Moonpath.esp Active

ELFX - NoTaverns.esp Active

ELFX - Dawnguard.esp Active

ELFX - Dragonborn.esp Active

ELE-Interior Lighting.esp Active

ELE DG-Interior Lighting.esp Active

ELE HF-Interior Lighting.esp Active

ELE DB-Interior Lighting.esp Active

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp Version 3.1

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp Version 3.1

Supreme Storms - Cot Version.esp Active

CoT-WeatherPatch.esp Active

CoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.esp Active

CoT-WeatherPatch_ESS.esp Active

Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp Active

BFSEffects.esp Version 3.6 Active

DeadlySpellImpacts.esp Active

Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp Active

Note: Use only one Dual Wield Parrying*.esp.

DragonCombatOverhaulDragonborn.esp Active

The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp Version 1.8 Active

Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.

dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp Active

Beards.esp Version 28363 Active

Brows.esp Version 30411 Active

3DNPC.esp Active

MoonAndStar_MAS.esp Active

REGS Patch - 3DNPC.esp Active

REGS Patch - Riften NavFull.esp Active

RRR_3DNPC-Patch.esp Active

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp Active

Requires: RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp

Requires: RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp

Requires: RND_USKP-Patch.esp

RND_DrinkingFountains-Patch.esp Active

RND_ETaC-Patch.esp Active

SPTConsistentOlderPeople.esp Version 1.8 Active

NonEssentialChildren.esp Active

dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp Active

SkyRe_Races.esp Active

SkyRe_Races_Fix.esp Active

ETaC - Complete ELFX Patch.esp Active

Animated Weapon Enchants.esp Active

DawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.esp Active

RealisticWaterTwo.esp Version 1.11 Active

RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp Active

Watercolor_for_ENB_RWT.esp Active

CWIELnFXPatch.esp Active

ETaC - Complete 3DNPC Patch.esp Active

ETaC - Complete ORS Patch.esp Active

ETaC - Complete Fountains Patch.esp Active

RRR_ELFX-Patch.esp Active

AOS2-CoT-RW2-SR-FIO-GDO-EBT-WC.esp Active

Bashed Patch, 0.esp Version 5/2/2014 2:31:08 AM Active

Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp Active

ReProccer.esp Active

 

AOS2-CoT-RW2-SR-FIO-GDO-EBT-WC.esp is merge of

AOS_WetandCold Patch.esp

AOS_EBT Patch.esp

AOS-GDO Patch.esp

AOS_FIO Patch.esp

AOS_SkyRe Patch.esp

AOS_RealisticWater2 patch.esp

AOS2_DGDB_USKP Patch.esp

AOS2_CoT3_1_patch.esp

 

BetterQuestObjectives-DB-HF-PDP-SRP-DBFM-CIY-TGR-PRR.esp is a merge of

BetterQuestObjectives-PersidRRentalPatch.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-ThievesGuildRequirementsPatch.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-DBForevertoMisc.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-SkyRePatch.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp

BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp

BetterQuestObjectives.esp

 

[phryxolydian]

Well, first, good look running all those mods at the beginning of the game. I suggest you activate them after the intro sequence. Second, there are various warnings from BOSS which you should definitely take care of. Also what mod manager are you using? You could trim your load order further by merging stuff like the SMIM esps and Beards, Brows, that sort of stuff. Also, and this is a mod I cannot possibly play without: Automatic Variants! I admit I cannot run around Skyrim if all wolves look the same since I first installed AV. 

 

Again, good luck!

[Kelmych]

Automatic Variants adds a fair amount of script load. Some users may have problems when it is included depending on how many other script-intensive mods are also being used and the capabilities of the PC (CPU, RAM, GPU, VRAM).

[Eplebit]

Well, first, good look running all those mods at the beginning of the game. I suggest you activate them after the intro sequence. Second, there are various warnings from BOSS which you should definitely take care of. Also what mod manager are you using? You could trim your load order further by merging stuff like the SMIM esps and Beards, Brows, that sort of stuff. Also, and this is a mod I cannot possibly play without: Automatic Variants! I admit I cannot run around Skyrim if all wolves look the same since I first installed AV. 

 

Again, good luck!

I'm using MO as was recommended in the STEP guide, and was pretty amazed by how awesome it is. The virtual directory stuff is a gift from God (yes, I guess Tannin42 is now my God) and something I really missed in my Oblivion days. But if you have any more tips on what I could merge and such it would be great.

 

I looked at Automatic Variants because it looks pretty cool, but I found some people arguing against it, like Kelmych warned about, so I didn't dare test it. I'm not sure which other mods I run that are considered script heavy so I'm not sure if it would work or not...

 

I see that I have a few more mods in the list I should probably clean. But the other warnings are on mods I found through this site (mostly the explorer pack), so I guess they are ok even if BOSS is giving warnings? Maybe I should ask in the explorer thread...

 

Another question (maybe also for that thread...) is that as I haven't played much Skyrim yet I'm not sure I really need all those extra quests and lands and such stuff found in the explorer pack, but I'm unsure how the patches would work if I start removing too much?

 

Also, why should I run them after the intro? Does that mean like after I create the character in Helgen or after I've escaped?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Eplebit

[phryxolydian]

So, is this your first playthrough? I'll say this: quest mods are awesome, they will definitely make your Skyrim more varied, etc but really, Skyrim is already huge, I've done several playthroughs and I've still yet to finish some factions and I don't even know how many side quests.. I think revamp the combat and that sort of thing to get a better experience. Add the CORE and Extended STEP recommendations, and you'll have already massively improved the vanilla game. Frostfall is absolutely essential if you're into immersion, etc. (I know you already have installed it) and add the other quests later on, once you are absolutely sure you have a stable game.

 

If you run into a problem early on with so many mods and very script heavy and unpredictable ones such as CWO, how are you going to know where to begin troubleshooting? This is assuming you are not an expert modder, of course. I'm just saying it could be daunting, looking at your load order.

 

@Kelmych: You really think AV, is script heavy? From my experience mods like Wet n' Cold, Birds of Skyrim, Footprints, etc all create much more script lag.This, I repeat, has been my own experience. WnC, is quite awesome, but Frostfall already borrows some of its features, so I had to let that one go.. It's a matter of preference as well, as I say, I just can't stand walking into a pack of 4-6 exact replicas of the same wolf. 

[phazer11]

Automatic Variants is resource intensive, it may not necessarily be script heavy per se but it taxes the engine something fierce especially if you have a lot of mods already. Think about it, you have multiple textures for any given type of animal/creature/humonoid which eats up VRAM, then it also has to apply said textures. This number increases exponentially with uGrids setting.

[phryxolydian]

Yeah, makes perfect sense, phazer. However, I would underline the point about having too many mods and running AV together potentially being too much, which would apply to your case, Eplebit.  I have currently 140 esps, I think, and I'm merging a few "simple" ones to trim it down a little and I run AV without any issues. But I would recommend you listen to these guys, Eplebit, they are much wiser than I am. Still, I rather love AV too much not to use it (or recommend it). 

Edited May 4, 2014 by phryxolydian

[Glanzer]

Wow, that is a great mix of mods and I laud your choices.  In fact I have pretty much the same mix of mods myself with these major exceptions:

 

• Instead of ELFX I use RLO (Realistic Lighting Overhaul) mostly because I like really dark interiors.  So I use the Wearable Lanterns mod for that.
• Instead of SkyRe I use a combination of other mods including ACE, Deadly Combat, and Stealth Skills Rebalanced.
• Instead of including a ton of mods that just add more creatures and people to the game, I've been more selective.  For example, I use Immersive Patrols and Immersive Travelers, but none of the other Immersive esps.  And instead of using both Interesting NPCs (3DNPC) and Inconsequential NPCs, I only use Interesting NPCs along with a couple follower mods (Vilja and Inigo).

You should consider what the people above say.  I do think you have too many script heavy mods, and that can cause problems.  So think about getting rid of Footprints and Enhanced Blood unless you really can't play without them.  If you are playing 1st person then Footprints won't be that noticable anyway.  And consider turning off some of the features of Wet and Cold.  For example, I use Wet and Cold and I turned off all the shader stuff like drips and steam because I can do without those (that reduces the scripts that run).

 

Also, be sure to check the cleaning on EVERY plugin not just the ones reported by BOSS.  BOSS only knows about the ones that have already been reported, it does NOT actually check them when it runs, it just looks in its database and compares the checksum of the esp against its database.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Glanzer

[Eplebit]

Thanks for all the answers! But ok, sounds like I have to drop AV for now :(

 

As for the answers from Glanzer:

• I chose ELFX over RLO pretty randomly. Just looked a bit nicer in a video I watched. But RLO is better?
• Hmm, I mostly picked SkyRe because Gopher uses it and did a favorable review. But I'm not sure exactly what parts he uses. If you have a combination of ACE, DC and SSR to recommend that's better than SkyRe I'd be more than happy to check it out.
• I added all of Immersive Patrols because I didn't know what to pick. If there are some parts that are better left out than I have no problems doing that. I'll look over them again and maybe remove the other modules as well. Inconsequential NPCs was added because it was in the STEP Explorer pack and I followed that. Not a good idea? I was thinking of using Inigo because I read some good stuff about him. I used Vilja in Oblivion, but had to remove her because I had problems with the voice acting. I think it's because she's Swedish, and because I'm from Norway it's just painfully clear that it's not some nice fantasy dialect or something but a Swedish girl trying (kind of badly) to speak English. It's too bad, because it really seemed like a great mod :(

 

I'll look into turning off some of those things in the modules you mentioned, and thanks for telling me I have to clean all mods. I actually wasn't sure how BOSS did that. Didn't think of just using checksum.

 

I'll also remove the quest mods, as phryxolydian mentioned, as I have so much content to see already. Guess I'll have to check if those patches works without them... I also thought about removing Civil War Overhual, as I'm a n00b and you said it could cause problems. And I've read that the Fire and Ice improvement is script heavy as well, so I guess it should be removed?

 

Also, I have another question... I've seen in the ENB thread that some people here really really do not like CoT. Is it that bad and it's better to play without it?

 

It's complicated getting this game right. So much stuff that sounds cool but hard to get it all to work together...