CTD at 3.1GB

[viking]

Some key posts on this and related threads (experts feel free to note any errors or insights):

• Post #11
• Post #27
• Post #40 (this is where the 500/430 ratio seems to have originated.)
• Post #66
• Post#278
• Post #313
• Post #1 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #64 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #68 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #70 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)

Wiki article (draft)

 

Thanks,

STEP

 

OP follows

---

First of all I wanted to thank you all for the great work you have done with STEP. Skyrim is the first game I installed on this computer and you guys have made it an AMAZING game. That being said, I have an issue that I hope you can help me solve.

 

My setup:

Vanilla Skyrim

gtx670 w/ 4GB @1080p w/ latest driver

16GB Memory

3770K at about 4GHz

Windows 8 64bit

ENB 149

Ultra settings

Highest available texture/quality

Mod Organizer

Step 2.2.1 + Skyrim Revisited + others

 

I have noticed a post here and there saying that Skyrim can't really address more than about 3.1GB of memory without issues. This seems to jive with my experience, meaning I CTD every time my memory hits that mark, but I couldn't really find anything definitive on the topic. The issue with googling the topic is the pre 1.3 skyrim that couldn't address more than 2gb of memory.

 

My mod list is mostly based on STEP which is why I came here for help, with about ten mods added onto the end (Interesting NPCs, Detailed Cities, Economics, COT, and a couple others). The reason I haven't included my mod list is that it doesn't seem to matter. As long as I keep the memory usage below 3GB I can have pretty much any combination of mods.

 

What I have tried so far (in no particular order):

• resetting ini files
• removing enb
• not using attklt
• only using a new game
• removing all mods and adding one by one until issue crops up
• running as admin
• watching the papyrus log - it seems relatively clean, no obvious errors right before CTD

Yes, I can run STEP just fine without any issues, but I also never get near 3GB of memory. I have tracked VRAM usage as well and have seen a max of 2.7GB/4GB.

 

As an example of where I might run into issues: I start a new character with Alternate Start. I start with Breezehome. Run out of Whiterun, past the Brewry, up the hill to the bandits. Enter the cave (watching memory usage with Elys MemInfo), and it dies right after I see 3GB. I have this same issue not using AS, sitting through the intro, and then running over to whiterun.

 

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place. I have spent more than a week trying to solve this issue, and the only solution I have found is to reduce memory usage. I have got to the point where I can exchange two texture packs and get into the cave without a CTD, but with both I get a CTD. I didn't even think texture packs should even affect CTDs, but I'm relatively new to Skyrim on the PC, so I could be wrong. I also found I could get a bit further with ENB turned off, but would still crash once I got above 3GB of memory. Finally, if I reload a game after a CTD, I can play just fine...until I reach 3GB of memory.

 

I really hope you guys can help. I more than willing to try anything at this point, besides just disabling all of the mods.

[Bael]

I've noticed that my game almost always runs more stable without the ENB I can run a greater mixture of the 4k textures without it. But I like the way it looks. I've since moved to the lowest textures I can snag throughout STEP even skipping some of the packs and added the realism ENB and the game looks great still and is stable. I still have problems with certain areas, White Run, Riften. Mostly Whiterun though.

[EssArrBee]

I think it is very evident that there is a problem with the buffer that Skyrim uses. With DirectX there is something like vertexbuffer() (at least I think thats what it is) that can allocate memory in VAS without it being overwritten until a parameter is met. It looks like some of that memory that is not being flagged to overwrite for whatever reason and it stacks until a crash or freeze. I'd say that a memory leak is not what Skyrim has though that is something that people have said, but a memory leak is more that you are loosing assets that are going to be called over and over. This seems to be keeping assets in memory past their usefulness.

[SkyrimeisterSam]

Hello, I've been told to post here to help you guys with your research, so I'll post all the relevant info of my setup.

 

I'm using 32x SSAA through nVidia's Control Panel, 16x AF, all 8k / 4k / 2k textures and using nVidia Inspector to cap it at 40fps, I was having freezing problems however the combination of running the textures through Texture Optimiser, using CleanMem, Razer Game Booster and the Performance Optimiser I've managed to drop VRAM usage to 1-1.5GB and the game still looks crystal clear, granted I'm running 720p so that does help but you get the point.

 

Before optimising my VRAM was at about 2.3GB usage and system RAM got to about 2.5-26GB before locking up, so it is possible to get it running stable, but it requires a hell of a lot of work.

 

Earlier on I had just started the Discerning the Transmundane quest and upon arriving at a snow field near Alftand, I was attacked by 2 Dwarven Mechanical Dragons, 2 Cave Giants and a group of 4-5 bandits and the game didn't skip a beat, I'm extremely surprised myself as all the way through I was expecting the inevitable lockup or CTD (I had so many problems when I tried adding so many mods the last time) and the game was rock solid, butter smooth too due to the FPS cap of 40FPS.

 

My setup is as follows:

i7 3770k

GTX 680 4GB

8GB 1600mhz RAM

Samsung 840 Pro 128gb SSD

ASUS Sabertooth Z77 motherboard

 

I have cleaned NONE of the mods I have with TES5Edit as I'm not having any problems at the moment so I'm not going to try and fix something that's not broken, they have all been arranged by BOSS apart from 1 or 2 unrecognized that needed to be manually ordered and they have all been Bash Patched, here's a list of my mods:

 

 

 

Update.esm

Dawnguard.esm

Skyrim Project Optimization.esm

Skyrim Project Optimization - Dawnguard.esm

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm

SPIKE.esm

Brawl Bugs CE.esp

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Dawnguard.esp

ExpandedSnowSystems-CoT.esp

Better Dynamic Snow.esp

Rainbows.esp

BWS.esp

Clanking Armor.esp

Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp

LIAT - Sounds.esp

randomthunder.esp

Thundering Shouts.esp

realrainCoT.esp

mintylightningmod.esp

MintyLightningMod_COT_Patch.esp

Supreme Storms - Cot Version.esp

PersonalizedMusic_v5.0.esp

StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp

83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes.esp

Birdsclean.esp

Birdsofskyrim.esp

BLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.esp

BooksBooksBooks.esp

Bring Out Your Dead.esp

Catsofskyrim.esp

ClamsDropPearls.esp

CookingExpanded.esp

Disease Descriptions.esp

DD_Dawnguard Additions.esp

Dogsofskyrim.esp

Immersive Battles.esp

Immersive Brigands.esp

Immersive Dawnguard.esp

Immersive Factions.esp

Immersive Mercenaries.esp

Immersive Patrols.esp

Immersive Travelers.esp

Immersive Werewolves.esp

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Climates of Tamriel - default.esp

LIAT - NPCs.esp

Book Covers Skyrim.esp

Book Covers Dawnguard.esp

MVABasic.esp

MVAIvarstead.esp

MVARorikstead.esp

Oblivion Gates v3 - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp

Oblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp

ORM-Arvak.esp

PilgrimsDelight.esp

Point The Way.esp

RabbitsPlus.esp

Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp

Real Wildlife Skyrim 0.1.esp

ShootingStars.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp

SkyrimImprovedPuddles-Dawnguard.esp

Training Dummies XP.esp

Training Dummies XP Dawnguard.esp

Convenient Horses.esp

Auto Unequip Ammo.esp

Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp

Footprints.esp

WetandCold.esp

SkyUI.esp

AMB Glass Variants Lore.esp

Cloaks.esp

Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp

1nivWICCloaks.esp

1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp

Elemental Staves.esp

hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp

imp_helm.esp

imp_helm_dawn.esp

DeadlyDragons.esp

ERSO 03 - Slighty Mighty Dragons DD.esp

ERSO 03.3 - Slighty Mighty Dawnguard Dragons.esp

DeadlyDragonsArmory.esp

ERSO 03.5 - New Dragon Loots.esp

ERSO 04 - Mighty Odahviing.esp

ERSO 04.2 - Mighty Durnehviir.esp

ERSO 07 - Slighty Mighty Dragon Priests.esp

ERSO 09 - Vendor Trainer Quest-giver protected USKP.esp

Gildergreen Regrown.esp

Immersive Events.esp

Run For Your Lives.esp

When Vampires Attack.esp

SkyrimChimneysRW.esp

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp

Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp

BlockSparkles.esp

Bounty Gold.esp

Distant Detail.esp

DiversePriests.esp

DiversePriests_BringOutYourDeadPatch.esp

dynamic fires.esp

Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp

Headtracking.esp

Immersive Weapons.esp

masser Size x0.5.esp

More Salt Please.esp

dD-No Twitching Dragon Death Animation.esp

NonEssentialChildren.esp

secunda Size x0.5.esp

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp

Thieves Guild Requirements.esp

aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp

AIMP - Antz in my Pantz.esp

SoS - The Dungeons.esp

SoS - The Wilds.esp

SoS - Civilization.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Sound.esp

skyBirds - Airborne Perching Birds.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Hardcore.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-Level-2.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-WinterEdition.esp

SoS - The Dungeons-PatchCoTHardcore.esp

SoS - The Wilds-PatchCoTSoundsWinterEdition.esp

SoS - Civilization -PatchCoTSoundsWinterEdition.esp

CoT ESS SoSciv patch.esp

DG CoT ESS SoSw Patch.esp

BFSEffects.esp

DragonCombatOverhaul.esp

dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp

Beards.esp

Brows.esp

SPTConsistentOlderPeople.esp

BloodyFacials.esp

Animated Weapon Enchants.esp

DawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.esp

WATER.esp

WATER Plants.esp

DiversePriests_ConsistentOlderPeoplePatch.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

 

The really weird thing is I tried this last month, VRAM usage was at 2.8GB constantly and I'd freeze every 10 minutes / constantly CTD (every 30 seconds in Whiterun), so I have no idea why I've managed to get a stable game this time round, I hope this info helps.

 

Apologies for the wall of text, I don't know how to use spoilers :(

[exploiteddna]

I'd say that a memory leak is not what Skyrim has though that is something that people have said but a memory leak is more that you are loosing assets that are going to be called over and over. This seems to be keeping assets in memory past their usefulness.

haha yeah, storing x y or z in memory isnt very useful at all if its just going to make you crash

[phazer11]

Out of curiousity what are the textures for your interiors? I have a feeling you're using overly large interior textures likely a big mix of 4k and 2k and that is likely why you keep hitting the ceiling as it were.

[EssArrBee]

Edited Sam's post, use {spoiler} in front of text and {/spoiler} after text replace { with [ to get it to work.

[exploiteddna]

Out of curiousity what are the textures for your interiors? I have a feeling you're using overly large interior textures likely a big mix of 4k and 2k and that is likely why you keep hitting the ceiling as it were.

are you directing that at me? No, i do not use any 4k textures. Most of my interiors are comprised of 2k color maps, 1k normals.  All of my exterior landscape textures are 1k color and 1k normals.  But yes, textures alone can be considered the cause of reaching the ceiling. I mean, if we all ran nothing but vanilla textures, we probably wouldnt be in this mess. Its about finding a balance so you dont hit the ceiling, or finding a way to increase/remove the ceiling.

[tvec]

Hi folks

 

 

I saw the link to this forum on Nexus. I feel your pain. I feel obliged to let you all know the only thing that ever helped me with CTDs related to high VRAM.

I use mostly 2K textures....a few 4K for some armors and weapons but not much. I would CTD ALL THE TIME...changing cells, exterior to interior cell changes.... even with my specs (below). It got so bad I was scared to enter Keeps or walk into Falkreath for fear of crashes. I was making 30 saves an hour at times to protect progress.

 

Then I read an article (which I now cannot find) which explained that it is the "revving up" that causes the CTDs...a sudden increase in VRAM will make even a good system stumble. Crashes usually occurred for me when the VRAM increased to around 3.1 or 3.2 from under 2.4

I had used the "Optimizer Texture" program found here:

 

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/12801/?tab=2&navtag=%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D12801&pUp=1

 

It worked okay but with limited success. It reduced the number of CTDs but they still occurred. When I was revisiting the Optimizer Texture program for updates I found this by Thorne67:

 

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/36124/?

 

It is a modified .ini and new instructions for Optimizer Textures which did an AMAZING JOB for me of completely stopping CTDs. And I really mean that. I have not had a single CTD since using it 5 days ago. Before running it my textures folder was nearly 11 GB. Now it is 6.3 GB. I only optimized the loose files, not the textures in any .bsa's

 

THE ONLY issue was that some textures, like grass, some vegetation, and things like SMIM's new fence textures came out with aliased edges. No big deal, I just reinstalled those textures.

 

You will need both the original Optimizer and Thorne67's file. Simply follow the instructions to the letter in Thorne67's how-to guide. Back up your textures folder to be safe. I hope this helps because being able to enjoy Skyrim without fear of crashing actually makes it fun again!

 

 

ONE MORE THING!

 

For folks with Intel CPUs I Highly recommend Skyrim Project Stability found here:

 

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/32363/?

 

This is a collection of guides, links, and info on how to optimize your whole systems for all games. You will learn how to unpark your CPU, HPET, TES5EDIT Cleaning/Merging, using cleanmem, and more. WARNING! IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO UNPARK AN AMD CPU! That said, there are still other things SPS can do for AMD users.

 

I did not do everything recommended in Skyrim Project Stability but what I did do worked for me, I have zero freezes and a bit better performance as well.

 

 

i5-2500K @ 4.2 Ghz

4GB HD 7950 @ 950/1385

8GB Ripjaw RAM 2133mhz

game on 60GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD

[WilliamImm]

STEP does not officially endorse Project Stability, due to it advocating a placebo application. It is also recommended to use DDSopt instead of Optimizer Textures, as it is more comprehensive than OT.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[tvec]

STEP does not officially endorse Project Stability, due to it advocating a placebo application. It is also recommended to use DDSopt instead of Optimizer Textures, as it is more comprehensive than OT.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Well I was only adding my 2 cents hoping it may help someone. All systems are different. In my experience, it's more important to find a fix that works regardless if it is endorsed by another set of protocols or not. It is not wise to keep adhering to one and only one one set of rules if it does not fix the problem.

 

Also the number of endorsements for Optimzer Textures, over 2,000, indicated to me that more people had success with it compared to DDSopt, which only has under 300 endorsements. The new ini for Optimizer definitely made a difference.

[Aiyen]

OT or DDSopt it makes little difference, they all do the same thing (when setup properly). The only reason DDSopt is "better" is that it has more features, however it requires a bit more setup and knowledge to work. However this also means that less people are going to use it... since it requires that you actually work a bit.

Heck you could make a script and make GIMP do it for all textures as well if you wanted.

 

As we have covered in a previous post, then Project stability has some good points in it. However it is advocating a 3rd party program with highly dubious functions, that just do not stand up to testing. Several testers here have used it and reported issues with it. As you say then it is vital to find a fix... however when the fix only works less then 100% of the time, then it is not really a fix.

[Slinkusss]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks for all the work the folks at STEP have and are doing. And thanks for all the detailed sleuthing that is going on in this thread.

 

I joined just to post my two cents. After the explosion on nexus when gopher announced the problem I installed Performance monitor and checked out what was happening with my crashes. True enough it was guaranteed reproduce-able crash. I had many textures installed and I always get the biggest textures available for a mod. Since realizing this, the only change I made was switching Skyrim 2k hd textures by Nebula, from FULL to LITE. And now the crashes are.... less. I am still crashing after a sudden spike, even though I don't ever go over 3gb in ram now.

 

Example: If I use the carriage to fast travel from whiterun to markarth with FULL textures, it goes from around 2.4, then there is a steep dip to under 2GB (probably the loading screen with some flushing right?), and then in a matter of 5 'samples' as measured by Performance Monitor, there is a huge spike which ends at between 3.1-3.3GB of RAM and... crash. Now that I have the lesser textures installed, I can witness the same pattern at lower levels. So from whiterun to Markarth with lower textures it goes from around 2.1GB, dips to just over 1GB and then spikes to around 2.8GB and then... crash. Looking at the graph on performance monitor it follows the same pattern, but at lower numerical values. Flat, dip, spike above the original flat line, crash...

 

Could it be the spike alone and how the program and the PC handle it together?

 

The crash with the lesser textures is harder to reproduce and happens less frequently. My numbers are approximate, and if this information is useful I can get more detailed information from the monitor.

 

I did not alter anything in my 224 mod setup (Unreal ENB included) other than changing the textures mentioned above, but my performance monitor results are consistent with what is being reported here and smaller textures does appear to have helped.

 

Specs:

Intel i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz

16GB RAM

Nvidia GTX680 4GB

Nvidia drivers 314.22WHQL

 

Thanks!

[jimhsu]

Hi, new here, also from the Nexus forums. Definitely now new in general, since I've been modding (and fixing problems) since the good old days of Morrowind (when these issues were much less complicated).

 

Has anyone tried, in lieu of "pcb", setting exterior/interior cell buffers to absurdly low values (say "4" or "1") and rely on streaming from a fast SSD? I've been experiencing many of the issues in this thread with a modded ENB 1440p setup, though I haven't been monitoring my memory (non-VRAM) usage closely. If the cell buffer is simply smaller, that could give quite a bit more headroom. Alternatively, writing a simple script attached to OnLoad that just calls pcb periodically... Or does bPreemptivelyUnloadCells=1 do essentially the same thing? Needs more testing.

 

This in fact reminds me of another (completely unrelated) game, the whole X series (X3 Reunion/TC/AP) that also had memory issues improved, but not fixed by LAA. Same goes for, say, The Sims. (I'm on all of those modding communities, BTW). I just hope that the new generation of consoles is going to relegate 32-bit to the dustbin, and then we can move on.

[exploiteddna]

Hi, new here, also from the Nexus forums. Definitely now new in general, since I've been modding (and fixing problems) since the good old days of Morrowind (when these issues were much less complicated).

 

Has anyone tried, in lieu of "pcb", setting exterior/interior cell buffers to absurdly low values (say "4" or "1") and rely on streaming from a fast SSD? I've been experiencing many of the issues in this thread with a modded ENB 1440p setup, though I haven't been monitoring my memory (non-VRAM) usage closely. If the cell buffer is simply smaller, that could give quite a bit more headroom. Alternatively, writing a simple script attached to OnLoad that just calls pcb periodically... Or does bPreemptivelyUnloadCells=1 do essentially the same thing? Needs more testing.

 

This in fact reminds me of another (completely unrelated) game, the whole X series (X3 Reunion/TC/AP) that also had memory issues improved, but not fixed by LAA. Same goes for, say, The Sims. (I'm on all of those modding communities, BTW). I just hope that the new generation of consoles is going to relegate 32-bit to the dustbin, and then we can move on.

Ive actually thought about messing with the cell buffer settings in the INIs but havent gotten around to doing it yet. If anyone is thinking about testing it out, just remember you should use a power of 2, i.e. 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36

 

i forgot about the bpreemptivelyunloadcells setting.. i remember seeing that a few weeks back but never did anything with it. thanks for the input 

[EssArrBee]

This testing would probably be a good thing to try and at different sizes. We would then have an idea if the game crashes because of the LAA limit or something else in the engine that causes it. My money is on the engine seeing that you are going to approach the 4GB limit and then it just shuts down before loading anymore assets into the VAS.