CTD at 3.1GB

[viking]

Some key posts on this and related threads (experts feel free to note any errors or insights):

• Post #11
• Post #27
• Post #40 (this is where the 500/430 ratio seems to have originated.)
• Post #66
• Post#278
• Post #313
• Post #1 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #64 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #68 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)
• Post #70 (adjacent thread: Caution about memory optimisers)

Wiki article (draft)

 

Thanks,

STEP

 

OP follows

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First of all I wanted to thank you all for the great work you have done with STEP. Skyrim is the first game I installed on this computer and you guys have made it an AMAZING game. That being said, I have an issue that I hope you can help me solve.

 

My setup:

Vanilla Skyrim

gtx670 w/ 4GB @1080p w/ latest driver

16GB Memory

3770K at about 4GHz

Windows 8 64bit

ENB 149

Ultra settings

Highest available texture/quality

Mod Organizer

Step 2.2.1 + Skyrim Revisited + others

 

I have noticed a post here and there saying that Skyrim can't really address more than about 3.1GB of memory without issues. This seems to jive with my experience, meaning I CTD every time my memory hits that mark, but I couldn't really find anything definitive on the topic. The issue with googling the topic is the pre 1.3 skyrim that couldn't address more than 2gb of memory.

 

My mod list is mostly based on STEP which is why I came here for help, with about ten mods added onto the end (Interesting NPCs, Detailed Cities, Economics, COT, and a couple others). The reason I haven't included my mod list is that it doesn't seem to matter. As long as I keep the memory usage below 3GB I can have pretty much any combination of mods.

 

What I have tried so far (in no particular order):

• resetting ini files
• removing enb
• not using attklt
• only using a new game
• removing all mods and adding one by one until issue crops up
• running as admin
• watching the papyrus log - it seems relatively clean, no obvious errors right before CTD

Yes, I can run STEP just fine without any issues, but I also never get near 3GB of memory. I have tracked VRAM usage as well and have seen a max of 2.7GB/4GB.

 

As an example of where I might run into issues: I start a new character with Alternate Start. I start with Breezehome. Run out of Whiterun, past the Brewry, up the hill to the bandits. Enter the cave (watching memory usage with Elys MemInfo), and it dies right after I see 3GB. I have this same issue not using AS, sitting through the intro, and then running over to whiterun.

 

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place. I have spent more than a week trying to solve this issue, and the only solution I have found is to reduce memory usage. I have got to the point where I can exchange two texture packs and get into the cave without a CTD, but with both I get a CTD. I didn't even think texture packs should even affect CTDs, but I'm relatively new to Skyrim on the PC, so I could be wrong. I also found I could get a bit further with ENB turned off, but would still crash once I got above 3GB of memory. Finally, if I reload a game after a CTD, I can play just fine...until I reach 3GB of memory.

 

I really hope you guys can help. I more than willing to try anything at this point, besides just disabling all of the mods.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[WilliamImm]

I'm pretty sure they have a "report a bug" feature on their site - don't remember exactly where it was, but you could Google it.

[JVorn]

 

So let me share my experience.  I have full STEP 2.2.3+ extreme max everything.  After finishing that install I started crashing all the effin time to the point where I gave up for a bit.  I then posted this thread and took Flytraps advice.  As you can see in my screenshots in that thread, every time my RAM hit 3.1+, insta crash.  I downloaded Optimizer Textures as per Flytraps advice and the ONLY option I checked was to resize if size was > 2k, and ran it on my whole Mod Organizer mod folder.  After it was done I have yet to crash, and the visual trade off was almost unnoticeable for me, it still looks great.  Here are my last two skyrim runs after texture resize, each is several hours of play with no crashes.

 

    

 

As you can see I never hit 3.1 GB RAM, and even though my VRAM is maxed out the whole time... no crash.  I think STEP is gonna have to start recommending only 2k textures after a certain point because everyone is gonna start crashing like this, and as others have said, its a Skyrim being 32 bit limitation, not a PC hardware limitation (I have 16 GB RAM, SSD, 8 core CPU, the works)

Did you install any of the HD DLC Optimized mod options? So you aren't running ANY 4x textures at all? Can you give me a quick tutorial on how to do this in TO?

 

Yes, I did HD DLC Optimized Hybrid (1024 + 2048) option.  Currently, I am not running any 4k textures, though as Flytrap said you can have a select few (I think only 4k texture he has is the HD Vurts Pines cause he likes them).  I would also like to note that both Flytrap and I initially downloaded the largest/best textures each mod had to offer and THEN resized them to 2k, and we have both noticed that a 4k texture resized to 2k looks better than some of the native 2k option downloads some mods offer.  Here's how I did the resizing:

 

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[WilliamImm]

Can you or somebody on here who is the most knowledgeable take care of that? We should bring this to their knowledge as soon as possible if there is even a slight chance that they could do something about it. I would do it but I am not technical enough to explain it correctly. 

I'll go ahead and report this to Bethsoft. Will see what happens...

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[WilliamImm]

The support has been emailed -I will post a link if it's not against the rules when it's ready.

[z929669]

 

 

So let me share my experience.  I have full STEP 2.2.3+ extreme max everything.  After finishing that install' date=' I started crashing all the effin time to the point where I gave up for a bit.  I then posted this thread and took Flytraps advice.  As you can see in my screenshots in that thread, every time my RAM hit 3.1+, insta crash.  I downloaded Optimizer Textures as per Flytraps advice and the ONLY option I checked was to resize if size was > 2k, and ran it on my whole Mod Organizer mod folder.  After it was done I have yet to crash, and the visual trade off was almost unnoticeable for me, it still looks great.  Here are my last two skyrim runs after texture resize, each is several hours of play with no crashes.

 

    

 

As you can see I never hit 3.1 GB RAM, and even though my VRAM is maxed out the whole time... no crash.  I think STEP is gonna have to start recommending only 2k textures after a certain point because everyone is gonna start crashing like this, and as others have said, its a Skyrim being 32 bit limitation, not a PC hardware limitation (I have 16 GB RAM, SSD, 8 core CPU, the works)

Did you install any of the HD DLC Optimized mod options? So you aren't running ANY 4x textures at all? Can you give me a quick tutorial on how to do this in TO?

Yes, I did HD DLC Optimized Hybrid (1024 + 2048) option.  Currently, I am not running any 4k textures, though as Flytrap said you can have a select few (I think only 4k texture he has is the HD Vurts Pines cause he likes them).  I would also like to note that both Flytrap and I initially downloaded the largest/best textures each mod had to offer and THEN resized them to 2k, and we have both noticed that a 4k texture resized to 2k looks better than some of the native 2k option downloads some mods offer.  Here's how I did the resizing:

 

If I wanted to keep some mods as 4k, would I just do what you did, resize the ENTIRE textures folder down to 2k, then just re install the 4k/8k mods in wrye bash to get those res textures back?

Just resize all and manually copy over the interiors 4K (or use DDSopt and the built-in filter, that app also has  % reduction or clamped reduction options)

[MontyMM]

I think the bug report is well worth doing. Of course, it's perhaps unlikely that they'll see the needs of extreme modders as a priority, but it's the modding community that helps provide an enduring life and benefit to the TES franchise, and they would do well to acknowledge that.

 

I strongly suspect that this is a fixable problem, and if we're very lucky it could even be a fairly trivial bug of which they are unaware, because only the relatively small hardcore of people will have encountered and identified this ceiling.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

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[z929669]

We should be pointing them to the key posts on this thread that outline the problem and the theory behind its cause as well as the simplest way to reproduce ... e.g., what is an easy way to max out RAM using only vanilla assets?

 

This would be a good confirmatory test to verify that it is not mod related.

[JVorn]

We should be pointing them to the key posts on this thread that outline the problem and the theory behind its cause as well as the simplest way to reproduce ... e.g., what is an easy way to max out RAM using only vanilla assets?

 

This would be a good confirmatory test to verify that it is not mod related.

Depends on how often the engine garbage collects... if its not often then maybe something as simple as entering/exiting whiterun as fast as you can could do it.

[Flytrap]

I don't think that will do it. I'm guessing that the resources are probably stored in RAM once as they are encountered to be used as they repeat within a cell or in case PC returns to that cell, and are cleared when the cell buffer is, like on travel if that is enabled. Also, it seems like a relatively small number of recent cells are stored because the RAM usage stays relatively steady as you move through the world unless there are several cells entered within close proximity/time. For example, when I was building test scenarios to start testing RAM reduction techniques, running in and out of the same house in Riverwood wouldn't work; I had to run into 5-6 buildings in the immediate area in order to build up enough resources in RAM to induce a crash.

 

It seems like quite a challenge to induce a 3 GB crash with vanilla resources. I never hit 2 that I can remember, even in the most easily crashed modded scenarios (Anga's Mill to Windhelm gate, for example). I am sure someone more clever than I can come up with something, though.

[z929669]

I am talking about something like spawning 100 werewolves in the middle of Riverwood or something like that. Creating that save game with a bit of instruction on houses to enter and exit in Riverwood to achieve the cap and induce the crash.

 

EDIT: Well, maybe something more benign that werewolves :P