noobzor

I do use FNIS, and it just occurred to me that I did not rebuild behavior files after re-doing my load order this last round...thank you for the reminder! I will have to see if that clears up the creepiness.

So, I have noticed an interesting behavior from random NPC's lately that I have never seen in previous Skyrim play-throughs before... When I am walking through a city, sometimes I will see some random NPC (a guard, or one of the townsfolk, or something) standing with their arms stretched out in front of them, palms upwards, like they would look if they were worshipping at an altar or something. I can still interact with them normally in every way, and if I wait a while they will eventually stop and wander off, so it doesn't seem like anything is broken. It is just a little bit creepy. Like I said, I have never seen this behavior before on any playthrough, but now I am seeing it in pretty much every city. I am asking here because the only mods I am using now that I haven't used on any previous playthrough are some of the things in the REGS guide. Has anyone else seen this before, or have any idea where it might come from?

I will, but I wanted to give a heads-up here because it is listed in the REGS pack.

A quick note...I ended up removing "Lost Wonders of Mzark" because I discovered that it just kept accumulating instances of the "_lw_finalboss1" script in my savegame. I don't know if it actually caused any issues, or if anyone else would have the same problem. I keep a tight control over my script lag, and measure it occasionally to make sure it stays in a good range (average less than 75ms), so I know I was not having any script lag issues. I felt it was just better to be safe, though, and nix it early rather than wait until an issue does come up. I have plenty of other things to keep me occupied anyway.

I have come to the conclusion that it is better to leave all BSA's alone in MO, and not unpack any of them. The way MO handles BSA's is not the same as how the game normally handles them. MO handles the BSA's to have exactly the same priority as if you had unpacked them. As far as the game is concerned, everything resolves exactly in your MO mod order regardless of whether you unpack the BSA or not. The cool thing is, even when you don't unpack, you can still see all of the individual file conflicts between the mods. The only thing you can't do is hide specific files from the BSA...you have to unpack in order to do that. I just found all this out recently (there is a big long thread about it in the MO forum here)...previously I was unpacking everything. So, as an experiment I re-installed all my mods, leaving all of the BSA's packed, and noticed a significant improvement in loading time and fewer stutters when loading cells with a lot of stuff. Now, I don't unpack any BSA's unless I need to hide specific files (which is very rare). As for the ASIS stuff, NPC's don't really need a lot of potions. If you give them too many, they won't use all of them and you just end up handing out more potions for the player. The followers should all be taken care of already in the "Improved ASIS ini's"...I think it has something to do with some follower faction settings somewhere, but I never messed with that. As for the spell exclusions, you are supposed to put the EditorID in the list. You don't have to put the whole EDID, you can just put part of it and it will match it, so "00" would match all spells where the editorId starts with 00. Those vanilla spells, that actually is the EditorID, it just looks the same as the name in some cases.

That seems like it should be okay. I am not sure what that mod does with the esp's and bsa's that are different from the USP files, but it seems like it should probably work that way. I missed that...was it the question about ASIS-Dependency.esp and ASIS.esp in the load order? Those should always be at the very end, after all of your various other patches. The same goes with any other SkyProc patches. The only thing that should ever go after them are things specifically intended to go after them, like the Post-Reproccer patches for SkyRe. I've been seeing this with a lot of files over the past few days. I don't know what is going on with the Nexus.

Yeah...if someone asked me whether they should renumber or not, I would say, "Yes, renumber." But, I am willing to take the risk of not renumbering and I know how to find and fix issues that come up from that, and it makes it easier for me to maintain my "whole load order super-compatibility patch" if I update and re-merge esp's at some point later on. CJ has said that you should not renumber when merging the ETaC esp's. Aside from that, it is probably a good idea to go ahead and renumber the majority of the time.

Yes, Lonewolf and dreadflopp are correct. This is weird, and the USKP team debated about this for a long time, but that is how it should be now. The reasoning is that anything in "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" assumes that you have no DLC installed and so it should come before any of the DLC. If Dawnguard makes a change to one of those records, for example, it should override Unofficial Skyrim Patch, and if that change needed to be carried forward it will also be in Unofficial Dawnguard Patch, and so on.

I think the only ones I actually renumbered the FormID's was "WeaponsArmor Merged.esp" and "Character Customization Merged.esp", but I can't remember for sure. I know for sure I did not renumber FormID's on anything related to ETaC, or any of them that were just merging compatibility patches either into the main mod or with each other. I almost always try to merge without renumbering first, if it can be.

No, the script lag from ASIS is negligible. The scripts are attached to NPC's and thus will take up some space in your save file, but they only fire off when the NPC spawns, and never again. This is far more lightweight than pretty much anything that uses cloak spells (like Wet and Cold) or even the combat scripts from Duel (which fire off whenever anything happens in combat).

Yes, that is correct.

Don't look at the Level Lists at all, level lists have nothing to do with it. You only need to look for new NPC's in the "Non-player Character" category, aka the actor list. The same goes for NPC's to get perks, spells, increased spawns, or whatever. The way the increased spawns works (very simplified explanation) is that it adds a small script to NPC's so that whenever they spawn, this script fires off and has a chance to spawn additional copies. The leveled list doesn't matter at all...ASIS doesn't look at or care about level lists. Randomized spawns is basically the same, except instead of a chance to spawn additional copies, it is a chance to spawn different stuff.

That has not been my experience with the perk distribution of ASIS. For the most part, the majority of the perks are just adding various bonuses to whatever the NPC's already do. It does affect some of their decision-making to a certain extent, but not to the point that I have seen anything stop using their special abilities. I would guess that you would still see vampires do all those kinds of things at about the same frequency regardless of what vanilla perks they get...no way to know without trying it, though. I will say that giving perks to dragons has in no way discouraged any dragons from using all the ass-whuppery added by Dragon Combat Overhaul.

Adding a mod to the exclusion list only excludes NPCs added by that mod, it has no effect on NPC's edited by that mod. So, if you want to include most vanilla NPC's, but exclude specific vanilla npc's that were edited by RoE, for example, then you have to add those specific NPC's to the "NpcExclusions" instead of just adding RoE to the "NpcModExclusions". If these are vanilla NPC's that were edited by RoE, then adding RoE to the exclusions will have no effect on them. You would have to exclude them specifically in the NpcExclusions. However, you could just not exclude them and let them get perks. :D Now, for my two bits... RoE makes a whole lot of really crazy changes to a lot of enemies, and in my opinion does a lot more damage than it does good. It is played off as improving enemy AI, but it hardly even touches the AI at all. Instead, it boosts enemy stats a whole bunch and raises level caps a lot. In my opinion, it makes way too many changes to accomplish something that could be done in a much simpler fashion. I believe that you can achieve as good, or better, results simply by using "high level enemies", a decent enemy AI mod that doesn't actually edit the NPC's themselves, and letting ASIS assign perks/spells.

Yes, definitely do this! There is a particularly insidious issue when you merge esp's that are not contiguous in your load order in TES5Edit (e.g. there are other esp's in between them that are not being merged), and it very commonly causes the merged esp to not save the master references correctly and you end up with all kinds of unresolved references. It can save you a lot of headache (and seriously cut down on the number of issues that come up after save, reopen, check for errors) if you make sure all of the esp's to be merged are right next to each other at the bottom of the list in TES5Edit before merging.

As far as the inclusions/exclusions goes, ASIS is only concerned about the esp/esm that first adds the NPC/Perk/Spell to the game, but once it figures out whether to include/exclude it then uses the entire load order to determine the correct version to use. So let's say you have an NPC called Bob that is added by mod A. Then you have a mod B that adds a series of Whupass perks and also makes a couple of edits to Bob. If nothing is excluded, Bob will show up in the game with the Whupass perks (assuming he qualifies). If B is in the NpcModExclusions, nothing will change...Bob will still show up in game with the Whupass perks because Bob came from A, and it will be the B version of Bob because that was the latest version in the load order. If A is in the NpcModExclusions instead, then Bob will not get any of the Whupass perks (or any other perks) via ASIS. If B is in the PerkModExclusions, then nobody will get the Whupass perks via ASIS. Does that make sense? To be honest, I had never heard of YASH until you mentioned it. It looks similar to SkyRe, but not quite the same...a different take on similar concepts. It will probably work okay with ASIS regardless, but you may have to mess with it to find the balance that is right for you.

Automatic Perks and Increased Spawns are the two biggest difficulty-increasing parts of ASIS, to be sure, but it's just a matter of setting them up to your liking. Also, do not underestimate the power of Automatic Spells. Combined with Apocalypse Spells, there are some casters in the game that go from laughably easy to forces of apocalyptic destruction that will make you want to find the nearest bed and cower under it. Also, you will find that a lot of enemies who did not previously cast any spells, but had points in caster skills, will now start casting at you. With Automatic Perks, just add all of your perk-adding mods to the "PerkModExclusions", and add any already difficult creature-adding mods to "NpcModExclusions", then you are left with just distributing perks to the stuff that was easy. At the very least, vanilla enemies need perks to be interesting. ASIS will never give out perks that someone already has, so the only weird stacking comes from mods that add perks that might stack with vanilla perks in a weird way (like from SkyRe or SPERG). That's why I just exclude all perk-adding mods and let it only distribute the vanilla perks. With Increased Spawns, you can add all of your enemy-adding mods to the "ModExclusions", then you are left with only increasing the vanilla spawns, which isn't that bad, and never get a bunch of spriggan matrons or anything like that. Fair enough :) I don't recommend making changes to ASIS settings in a running game, but I know that some of them are safe. I just don't know which ones aren't.

The improved ini's will work fine right out of the box, even with Deadly Dragons. There is a link on the Deadly Dragons page with some recommended ASIS settings that don't quite match up with what is in those ini's, and you can tweak it to match, but it isn't necessary. ASIS gets all perks in your load order that have a skill requirement and is not excluded in the AutomaticPerks.ini. SIC should already be "PerkModExclusions" section so the perks added by that mod shouldn't get handed out to anything else. If you think those enemies are too powerful with the other perks, you can also add SIC to the "NPCModExclusions" section and that will keep the enemies added by SIC from getting any additional perks, while still allowing other stuff to get the perks.

What you describe (holes in the terrain) would come from landscape record edits, not navmesh edits, but the two often go hand-in-hand (landscape defines the geometry of the land, navmesh defines how NPC's navigate it). I have not experienced any issues like this that came up only after merging and were not present with mods in the same order before merging. But, it is possible...Skyrim is a complex system and even Arthmoor isn't 100% sure how everything works. If there is anything that gets lost from merging, and it isn't as simple as the last one winning, that would mean that something has to be autoforwarded from the records that are overridden. I don't see anything related to landscape or navmesh records in Arthmoor's list of records that get auto-forwarded. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though. Definitely, anything that gets merged needs to be tested. Anything related to navmesh or landscape edits coming from different mods in the same general area should at least get a good run-through with some companions in tow (to see them traverse the navmesh).

Sorry, you asked me for some input on this, and it took me a while to get around over here. Automatic Perks will make enemies stronger, but so does Automatic Spells (though only for enemies with spellcasting skills). I prefer to leave automatic perks on and dial things down elsewhere if necessary...perks make things more interesting in the same way that spells do, in my opinion. One nifty thing with both Increased Spawns and NPC Potions is that if you run the patcher with those enabled, you can adjust the actual numbers in-game via MCM. So, if you want to try it out with those enabled you can, and if you don't like it set all the numbers to 0 in MCM to effectively disable them. The NPC Potions option does work, in so far as it will put the potions in NPC inventory, but the problem with is that getting NPC's to actually drink the potions is unreliable. The intent of the feature was to make NPC's harder, not to just hand out more potions for the player to loot. But, sometimes the NPC's just don't drink them so it has kind of the opposite effect on difficulty from time to time. NPC Enchant Fix is a gimme...there is no reason not to use that one. Automatic Spells, Automatic Perks, and Increased Spawns, NPC Potions are all entirely up to you...they will all work well with your setup, it's just a matter of how difficult you want it to be. But, if you use Increased Spawns, you may want to exclude SIC and OBIS since they have their own increased spawns built-in. I personally do not care for or recommend the "Random Spawns" feature...it leads to some weird things in places that just don't make sense. The GMST's you may or may not want to use...I personally use it just to set the combat/non-combat AI actor max settings (instead of doing this via wrye). Enemy AI just should not be used...by anybody. This feature was added way back when there were very few mods that did any kind of improvement on enemy AI. The ASIS implementation is very rudimentary...all it does is set a few GMST's that affect how enemies make decisions. Just about every other enemy AI mod is a better implementation. Dienes will even say as much himself. I personally think it would be better if he just removed the feature from ASIS, but that's not up to me. As far as what to put as inclusions/exclusions, I recommend just grabbing EggOver1979's improved ini files (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53047/?), and maybe tweak it a little bit to suit. He has done a great job of adding support for just about everything that works well with ASIS, and excluding almost all of the things that will cause issues. His philosophy was to include everything possible that won't cause issues (though I think he does blanket-exclude all perks from SPERG and SkyRe). Those files are a much better starting point than the ones that come with ASIS.

I have asked Mator if he could put in a check for overlapping FormID's when you merge without renumbering for the upcoming 1.7 version. He said he would see if he had time to get to it, so we'll see. I have seen a lot of mentions that you can't or shouldn't merge mods with navmesh edits, but I disagree. Navmeshes in general were a problem with older versions of the merge script, but as of 1.6 those problems are gone. Merging mods with navmesh edits is no different than letting one of them override the other in the load order...the last one will win. As long as you have the mods in the correct order, there is no problem with merging mods with navmesh edits that wouldn't already pop up from general navmesh incompatibility between the unmerged mods.

That's only because LOOT doesn't know the difference between the original and the REGS versions. There are no deleted navmeshes in the REGS version.

Sure. I actually keep a record of all these, so that I can remember...well, most of them. Here is my most recent list. It should be pretty much up-to-date:

I do use the SIC version of HLE, I just failed to mention it. I also use ACE with Duel. Deadly Combat is good, but a little too fast paced for me...Duel is more my speed. :) I was also using AV until just recently, and I cut it for performance gains, but I might add it back in...haven't decided yet. This is fine. This should be corrected in the REGS patch version, but because it is the same filename, LOOT is thinking it is the original version. MM is Skyrim Monster Mod. I am kind of on the fence on this one...I keep adding it and removing it. The problem is that the full version has some monsters that aren't quite lore friendly. There is a lore-friendly version that removes some of those, but the esp for the lore friendly version is a mess and has all kinds of unresolved references in the level lists which causes them to not merge correctly in either the TES5Edit merge patch or the Bashed patch. Even the latest update to the lore friendly version didn't fix it. Anyway, right now I am using the full, non-lore-friendly version to see how it goes...I might cut it, though, if it is too ridiculous.

I do still use Wet and Cold, because I really like Wet and Cold - Holidays (holidays are fun :) ), and I am also still using Footprints. But, those are the next two on the chopping block if I need to squeeze out any more script performance. Here is my current load order. I tend to merge compatibility patches, and make my own compatibility patches, and merge a lot of minor things together, so you may not recognize some of these. Those things are pretty inconsequential to the loadout, though...mostly just flavor: [spoiler=Load Order] # This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.Skyrim.esmUpdate.esmUnofficial Skyrim Patch.espDawnguard.esmUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.espHearthFires.esmUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.espDragonborn.esmUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.espSkyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esmFalskaar.esmWyrmstooth.espApachiiHairMales.esmApachiiHair.esm3rdEraWeaponsMoS.esmSGHairPackBase.esmLootification.esmApachiiHairFemales.esmETaC - RESOURCES.esmLanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esmREGS - Resources.esmWinterholdDestruction.esmInn Girls Resources.esmSkyMoMod.esmXvision Children.esmmannyBlackRock.esmdaymoyl.esmHighResTexturePack01.espHighResTexturePack02.espHighResTexturePack03.espUnofficial High Resolution Patch.espCutting Room Floor.espgetSnowy.espBetter Dynamic Snow.espAtlas Compass Tweaks.espBetter Stealth AI for Followers.espDynamicPotions.espCollege of Winterhold Entry Requirements.espDeadlyMonsters.espChesko_WearableLantern.espChesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.espConvenient Horses.espAHZmoreHUD.espFISS.espDual Wield Parrying_SKSE.espThieves Guild Requirements.espFSS-No pause between lines.espGuard Dialogue Overhaul.espRaceMenu.espTraps Are Dangerous.espImmersive NPC in the dark.espImportantInformationOverhaul.espLanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - RCRN Classic.espLock Overhaul.espNPCWaterAIScripted.espOmegared99-GalleryOfArmor.espSkyrim bigger trees.espPrometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp3DNPC.espExpandedWinterholdRuins.espRealisticRoomRental-Basic.espFNISSexyMove.espSkyUI.espMinimalHUD.espSkyTweak.espDual Sheath Redux.espStartingLoadouts.espCharacter Customization.espdonorcollegejoin.espUnreadBooksGlow.espWeapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.espClothing & Clutter Fixes.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures.espReal Wildlife Skyrim 0.1.espHelgen Reborn.espSkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.espRealisticWaterTwo.espBook Covers Skyrim.espHearthfireChimneysFalskaar.espREGS - Cities.espUndeath.espEpic Music Overhaul.espSkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.espSkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators-Merged.espHarvestOverhaul.espPS_StandingStones.espRavenRockExpanded.espThunderchild - Epic Shout Package Merged.espWetandCold.espWhen Vampires Attack.espiHUD.esprcrnShaders.espEnhancedLightsandFX.espELFX - Dawnguard.espInconsequential NPCs.espNPCs Protected Redux - Merged.espClothing & Clutter_3DNPC_Patch.espELFX - Dragonborn.espvAutosaveManager.espwinterhold_improvements.espCollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.espCWI Merged Patch.espMighty Magick - Merged.espHothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.espCloaks.espOBIS.espCivil War Overhaul.espBring Out Your Dead.espMaster of weapons - All In One.espSPTConsistentOlderPeople.espDiversePriests.espDeadlyDragons.espREGS - Better Docks.espFireAndIceOverhaul.espSkyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.espComplete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.espMoonAndStar_MAS.espSky Haven Temple M&M3.espInns and Taverns.espDawnofWindhelm.espBetterDGEntrance.espSigns Merged.espimmersive wenches.espWetandCold - Holidays.espHebrock_Der Schatten von Meresis - EV.espEMCompViljaSkyrim.espWhiterunAlivePiano.espACE Merged.espOblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.espBFT Ships and Carriages.espACE Archery.espSolitude Docks Merged.espWeaponsArmor Merged.espDawnofRiften.espNightingale Hall.espStealth Skills Rebalanced_COMPLETE.espBetter Vampires.espDuel - Combat Realism.espTheChoiceIsYours.espUnderstone Keep Repair.espImmersive Orc Strongholds.espSkyrim Flora Overhaul.espDragonmournInn.espFixes Merged.espHarvestOverhaulCreatures.espGrass_On_Steroids_SFO.espImmersive Patrols Merged All.espStavesofSkyrim.espDead Body Collision.espTheDomain.espPopulated Lands Roads Paths.espAtlas Legendary.espAdalMatar.espPopulated Cities Towns Villages.espSleeping Innkeepers.esptos_laintardale_hf.esptpos_whiterun.espBrevi_MoonlightTales.espESFCompanions.espDaggercross_Alley.espInigo.espAmazingFollowerTweaks.espAFT_ManagedFollowerBoost.espImmersive Weapons.espHigh Level Enemies - SIC Merged.esp3rdEraWeapMoS-lvlList.espNPO Module - Crossbows.espNPO Crossbows - ACE.espPrvtI_HeavyArmory.esp1nivWICCloaks.espHeight Adjusted Races with True Giants.espNonEssentialChildren.espChildren Merged.espTradeBarter.espTradeRoutes.espRACISM.espRCRNdgdb.espWetandCold - Ashes.esptos_amber_guard.espDungeonQuestAwareness.esptos_granitehall.espProvincial Courier Service.espquest_pitfighter.espBetter City Entrances - All in one.espSofiaFollower.espSnowbound Acres.espREGS Patch - Riften NavFull.espCompanionArissa.espDragonCombatOverhaulDragonborn.espAOS.espaMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.espImproved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.espSmithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.espKonnektorDragonborn.espThe Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.espCombatDramaOverhaul.espFollowerLivePackage.espFollowerLivePackage-AFT.espThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.espMagic of the Magna-Ge.espReal Traders.espicefloes.espACE Speech.espMzarkWonders.espRun For Your Lives.espTimingIsEverything.espAethernautics.espPP_OgmundsTomb.espETaC - Complete.espPopulated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esphigh hrothgar overhaul.espOblivion Gates in Cities.espImpeREAL Empire - Unique Cities - Falkreath.espETaC - Complete Merged Patch.espVisitors Merged.espdaymoyl_DawnguardAddon.espEquipping Overhaul.espApocalypse - The Spell Package.espApple garden.espPP_WindcallerPass.espMy Home Is Your Home.espPP_EngelmannRest.espTravellersOfSkyrim - Merged.espRCRNvolumetric.espquest_pitfighter_dlc01.espAlternate Start - Live Another Life.espBetterQuestObjectives-Merged.espUltimate Merged Patch.espMonsters Merged Patch.espVividian - AllinOne Presets.espASIS-Dependency.espASIS.espThe Staff Machine.espLLI.espDual Sheath Redux Patch.esp As far as combat, I basically just have a few mods that add baddies to the game (OBIS, SIC, MM), a few things that make some enemies things harder (DCO, DD), and then Duel. The real kicker is ASIS to crank up the spawns and distribute perks and spells. I am also currently playing on Adept difficulty and using SkyTweak and Deadly Monsters to make things more difficult, because I don't like the way difficulty level scaling works by default. It can definitely get a lot more intense than this...but this is about as much as I can handle at my age. :) I'm not a young gamer anymore. I tried Sands of Time and also Revenge of the Enemies, and I didn't care for them. Revenge of the Enemies made way too many edits to NPC records to accomplish what could be done in a much simpler manner, and Sands of Time changed the nature of the game too much for my tastes (by adding all kinds of crazy random encounters all over the place). Deadly Monsters just gives you an MCM with some sliders to tweak the difficulty of existing monsters without actually changing what spawns or where. SkyTweak has a lot of similar options as well.