Thanks i'm currently doing a clean install of SSE right now just in case. No worries, treelods= is the only one touched so I can confirm TreeFullFallBack= is currently the default TreeFullFallBack=1. thanks again I'll be testing just dyndolod and border-gates again and post my papyrus log if the issue persists after and said and done. Also I realized i had a few other things checked in the left plane of mo2. kind of feel silly forgetting to uncheck those mods... ill go ahead and uncheck those as it could be one of those. usually I can find the issue myself in xEdit so naturally i was pretty boggled when it started a CTD frenzy in the previously mentioned location even when xedit showed no changes in that cell between them only change i found was some height data but it appeared to be overwritten without conflict and no errors so... derp?