AI & spawning problems with higher ugrids?

[Necrokat]

I’ve been trying for couple hundred hours to get ugridstoload=9 to work stably on my system, and I think I finally have it. My specs are…

 

I7 3770k CPU

Z77 ASUS Sabertooth mobo

GTX 670 4gb gpu

16gb corsair vengeance 1600 ram

850txpsu

 

I’m using these inis. I don’t know what most of it actually does lol. Just pieced together from others I’ve found and then chaged parts to test…

 

 

[General]

sLanguage=ENGLISH

 

uGridsToLoad=7

uExterior Cell Buffer=82

uInterior Cell Buffer=18

fMasterFilePreLoadMB=82.0000

iPreloadSizeLimit=262144000

SIntroSequence=

 iNumHWThreads=8

 iHWThread6=7

 iHWThread5=6

 iHWThread4=5

 iHWThread3=4

 iRenderingThread2HWThread=3

 iRenderingThread2HWThread=2

 iRenderingThread2HWThread=1

 iRenderingThread1HWThread=0

 iAIThread2HWThread=3

 iAIThread1HWThread=2

 bMultiThreadMovement=1

 bUseThreadedParticleSystem=1

 bUseThreadedBlood=1

 bUseThreadedMorpher=1

 bUseThreadedTempEffects=1

 bUseThreadedTextures=1

 bUseThreadedMeshes=1

 bUseThreadedLOD=1

 bUseThreadedAI=1

 bUseHardDriveCache=1

 iLargeIntRefCount=999999

fFlickeringLightDistance=8192

[HAVOK]

 iNumThreads=4

 

 [backgroundLoad]

 bUseBackgroundFileLoader=1

 bUseMultiThreadedFaceGen=1

 bBackgroundCellLoads=1

 bUseMultiThreadedTrees=1

 bBackgroundLoadLipFiles=1

 

 

[Display]

fShadowLODMaxStartFade=1000.0

fSpecularLODMaxStartFade=2000.0

fLightLODMaxStartFade=3500.0

iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048

bAllowScreenshot=1

 

[Audio]

fMusicDuckingSeconds=6.0

fMusicUnDuckingSeconds=8.0

fMenuModeFadeOutTime=3.0

fMenuModeFadeInTime=1.0

 

[Grass]

bAllowCreateGrass=1

bAllowLoadGrass=0

 

[GeneralWarnings]

SGeneralMasterMismatchWarning=One or more plugins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on. Errors may occur during load or game play. Check the "Warnings.txt" file for more information.

 

[Archive]

sResourceArchiveList=Skyrim - Misc.bsa, Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Skyrim - Textures.bsa, Skyrim - Interface.bsa, Skyrim - Animations.bsa, Skyrim - Meshes.bsa, Skyrim - Sounds.bsa

sResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Voices.bsa, Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa, HighResTexturePack01.bsa, HighResTexturePack02.bsa, HighResTexturePackFix.bsa,

 

[Combat]

fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0

fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0

 

[Papyrus]

iMaxMemoryPageSize=16384

iMinMemoryPageSize=4096

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0

bEnableLogging=1

bEnableTrace=1

bLoadDebugInformation=1

 

[budgetCaps]

uActorMemoryBudgetCap=20971520

uLoadedAreaNonActorMemoryBudgetCap=371195904

uWaterMemoryInterior=20971520

uTextureMemoryInterior=20971520

uGeometryMemoryInterior=20971520

uWaterMemory=10485760

uTextureMemory=20971520

uGeometryMemory=10485760

 

[Water]

bReflectLODObjects=1

bReflectLODLand=1

bReflectSky=0

bReflectLODTrees=1

 

 

[General]

fBrightLightColorB=1.0000

fBrightLightColorG=1.0000

fBrightLightColorR=1.0000

iStoryManagerLoggingEvent=-1

bEnableStoryManagerLogging=0

[imagespace]

bDoDepthOfField=1

iRadialBlurLevel=1

[Display]

iBlurDeferredShadowMask=3

fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000

fShadowDistance=8000.0000

iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024

iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048

iShadowSplitCount=2

iMaxAnisotropy=1

fLeafAnimDampenDistEnd=4600.0000

fLeafAnimDampenDistStart=3600.0000

fTreesMidLODSwitchDist=10000000.0000

fGamma=1.0800

fDecalLOD2=1500.0000

fDecalLOD1=1000.0000

fSpecularLODStartFade=2000.0000

fShadowLODStartFade=200.0000

fLightLODStartFade=3500.0000

iTexMipMapMinimum=0

iTexMipMapSkip=0

iWaterMultiSamples=0

iMultiSample=2

iShadowMode=3

bTreesReceiveShadows=0

bDrawLandShadows=0

bFull Screen=1

iSize H=1080

iSize W=1920

fMeshLODFadePercentDefault=1.2000

fMeshLODFadeBoundDefault=256.0000

fMeshLODLevel2FadeTreeDistance=2048.0000

fMeshLODLevel1FadeTreeDistance=2844.0000

fMeshLODLevel2FadeDist=10000000.0000

fMeshLODLevel1FadeDist=10000000.0000

iScreenShotIndex=2

bShadowMaskZPrepass=0

bMainZPrepass=0

iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=25

iMaxDecalsPerFrame=100

bFloatPointRenderTarget=0

sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670"

bFXAAEnabled=0

iShadowMapResolution=4096

fShadowBiasScale=0.1500

iShadowMaskQuarter=4

iAdapter=0

iPresentInterval=1

iShadowFilter=3

bShadowsOnGrass=1

bTransparencyMultisampling=0

bDeferredShadows=1

bDrawShadows=1

[Grass]

b30GrassVS=1

fGrassStartFadeDistance=7000.0000

fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=7000.0000

fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000

[MAIN]

bGamepadEnable=1

bCrosshairEnabled=1

fHUDOpacity=1.0000

bSaveOnPause=1

bSaveOnTravel=1

bSaveOnWait=1

bSaveOnRest=1

fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=150000.0000

[GamePlay]

bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1

bShowQuestMarkers=1

iDifficulty=2

[interface]

bDialogueSubtitles=0

bGeneralSubtitles=0

fMouseCursorSpeed=1.0000

bShowCompass=1

[Controls]

fGamepadHeadingSensitivity=1.0000

fMouseHeadingSensitivity=0.0125

bAlwaysRunByDefault=1

bInvertYValues=0

bGamePadRumble=1

bMouseAcceleration=1

bUseKinect=0

[Particles]

iMaxDesired=750

[saveGame]

fAutosaveEveryXMins=15.0000

[AudioMenu]

fAudioMasterVolume=1.0000

fVal7=1.0000

uID7=0

fVal6=1.0000

uID6=0

fVal5=1.0000

uID5=0

fVal4=1.0000

uID4=0

fVal3=1.0000

uID3=94881

fVal2=0.4000

uID2=466532

fVal1=1.0000

uID1=554685

fVal0=0.8000

uID0=1007612

[Clouds]

fCloudLevel2Distance=262144.0000

fCloudLevel1Distance=32768.0000

fCloudLevel0Distance=16384.0000

fCloudNearFadeDistance=9000.0000

[TerrainManager]

fTreeLoadDistance=75000.0000

fBlockMaximumDistance=250000.0000

fBlockLevel1Distance=70000.0000

fBlockLevel0Distance=35000.0000

fSplitDistanceMult=1.5000

bShowLODInEditor=0

[NavMesh]

fObstacleAlpha=0.5000

fCoverSideHighAlpha=0.8000

fCoverSideLowAlpha=0.6500

fEdgeFullAlpha=1.0000

fEdgeHighAlpha=0.7500

fEdgeLowAlpha=0.5000

fTriangleFullAlpha=0.7000

fTriangleHighAlpha=0.3500

fTriangleLowAlpha=0.2000

fLedgeBoxHalfHeight=25.0000

fEdgeDistFromVert=10.0000

fEdgeThickness=10.0000

fPointSize=2.5000

[Trees]

bRenderSkinnedTrees=1

uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=20

[Decals]

uMaxDecals=1000

bDecals=1

bSkinnedDecals=1

uMaxSkinDecals=100

uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=60

[LOD]

fLODFadeOutMultObjects=15.0000

fLODFadeOutMultItems=15.0000

fLODFadeOutMultActors=15.0000

fLODFadeOutMultSkyCell=1.0000

[Launcher]

bEnableFileSelection=1

bShowAllResolutions=1

uLastAspectRatio=3

[blurShaderHDR]

bDoHighDynamicRange=1

[blurShader]

bUseBlurShader=0

[Water]

iWaterReflectHeight=512

iWaterReflectWidth=512

bUseWaterDisplacements=1

bUseWaterRefractions=1

bUseWaterReflections=1

bUseWaterDepth=1

[backgroundLoad]

bSelectivePurgeUnusedOnFastTravel=1

 

 

 

 

I’m using AO at Performance and AA x4 forced thru Nvidia Inspector.

Game is all Ultra (except radial blur medium and no sky reflection on water) and 1920x1080 res on 55†hdtv

.MODS used: Project ENB,  Monster Mod,  complete Texture Pack Combiner using STEP recommendations. So mostly medium/low res. Except ULTRA TREESHD.

 

Think that’s most of the pertinent info. I’ve been all over the map NUMEROUS times, making sure not to go inside interiors. And when there’s a crash I’d reload from way back out of that area to try it again. I’ve had most of my troubles in the steamy hot springs tundra area south of Windhelm. Around Steamcrag camp. I would crash close to Steamcrag or up the path going towards Fort Amol. There’s an area there where the path is close to a huge drop off on the right and has a massive vista view. I’d crash in these places if I had both MOMOD and TPC active. Take one away and I’d be fine. Tweaked inis more and now I can run both mods and get through those areas most of the time. Crashes (actually mainly freezes) maybe 1 outta 6 times now. I’d be fine with that, and feel that this is playable…EXCEPT for weird AI or spawn occurrences I’ve seen while testing. These mostly occurred without MONSTER mod so don't think that's it. i want to make sure this won't nerf my game before i proceed. HERE THEY ARE…

---------------------------------------------------------------------

• START OF GAME LEAVING Riverwood for Whiterun. Down the path will encounter the 3 imperial soldiers escorting bound stormcloak prisoner. With ugrids =5 they spawn close to me. Ugrids 9 (or even 7) they spawn much farther away from my position. 200 yards maybe.
• the 3 nobles going to wedding. Instead of the smooth single file walk, they’d be moving 1 at a time and running to catch up.
• the 2 Stenddar warriors. Same as above^. Running all around yet no hostiles-
• Khajit thieves that demand money when I’m on foot. Won’t speak when I’m on horse and won’t attack if I hit them. Will move spastcally
• teleporting or abruptly appearing objects. Those small carts appearing suddenly. There’s one on the way to Anga’s mill from Whiterun. It’s on my left as I approach it but instantly ports to my right and up a ways. Barrels suddenly appear and actually damage my horse
• the weirdest tho was on way to Markarth. Saw a chicken running wildly across bridge past me. Followed it where it stopped close to Blind Cliff Cave and started pecking. Then a mudcrab comes across same bridge. Not hostile. I follow it to in front of Blind cliff cave, it goes in water, hunkers down, and eventually becomes hostile. Another crab does same thing soon after. It’s like all 3 were going to where they were supposed to have spawned at, so they could resume normal behavior.

======================================================================

 

Thing is, I haven’t played enough vanilla skyrim to know if these things are normal game bugs or anamolies caused by changing ugrids. I’m afraid if stuff is spawning out of place, it could possibly mess things up badly. The above example don’t bother me but I’d be miffed if a quest giver was spawned off a cliff or something lol.

 

So if you folks might know if some of those things are just normal AI bugs your thoughts would be appreciated! Also if you have any advice on getting ugrids=9 to work more stable I’d love to hear it. I tried 7 and it’s okay, but it ain’t 9! Not sure 7 is worth the risk. Thanks!

[Necrokat]

geez. so sorry folks. that didn't post like i thought it would. the spoilers tags aren't hiding anything and my lists didn't come out in list form. sorry. if a mod wants to clean that mess up it'd be great

[Korentin]

Far as I know, doesn't matter how good your system is. The Skyrim engine isn't build for higher Ugrids so sooner or later your game is screwed. Weird AI behaviour is part of that.

[frihyland]

Ugrids 7 is the most that the skyrim engine can handle without breaking itself apart. Think of it like severely overclocking your cpu without adding any way to cool off the extra heat generated, guaranteed meltdown in due time. Same with skyrim, you are exceeding the intended specs without accounting for the collateral damage.

[torminater]

Absolutely, fri. Also, don't you ever "piece together" your ini. Just don't. It might work or it might not work but if you ever want a real playthrough of Skyrim, don't use ini-tweaks which you haven't analyzed and tested for yourself, or which are widely recommended and analyzed by e.g. STEP or the Skyrim Tweaking Guide by nVidia.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you have any problems with z-fighting, have you used z-fighting tweaks? If so, which did you use? Have you tried to zone in and out of interiors? Have you encountered exceptionally long loading times? Are you using Open Cities?

[Necrokat]

Absolutely, fri. Also, don't you ever "piece together" your ini. Just don't. It might work or it might not work but if you ever want a real playthrough of Skyrim, don't use ini-tweaks which you haven't analyzed and tested for yourself, or which are widely recommended and analyzed by e.g. STEP or the Skyrim Tweaking Guide by nVidia.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you have any problems with z-fighting, have you used z-fighting tweaks? If so, which did you use? Have you tried to zone in and out of interiors? Have you encountered exceptionally long loading times? Are you using Open Cities?

i tried your z-fighting fix and it worked well, but hit fps hard. but your skycell setting of 500000 really helped cover the flickering w/ clouds so that was great!

funny you mention Open Cities. that mod corrupted my saves and ruined my last game. but to be fair i may've reloaded an older save that had it active. but i literally only used the mod less than 10 minutes lol

 

i think i've found 1 big problem w/ my ugrids 9. i can't seem to use more than like 2.4gb of RAM. whenever memory gets above that i crash. as u can see from my specs in 1st post, i have plenty of ram. vram never gets about 2600 mb. i have screenshots of testing done with Skyrim Performance Monitor and VMMAP if anyone would take a look. i even finally used the 4gb patch on my TESV.exe and it still won't use more than about 2.3-2.4gb of memory before crashing. my Skyrim should be patched up to date as i just installed it on this new computer a month ago, and have even reinstalled it off STEAM a week ago. i've changed my inis some but they're mainly still like the ones posted above in spoilers. is there an ini setting that's keeping me from using a full 4gb of ram?

 

also was really wanting to hear more on AI and spawn glitches from folks who've used higher ugrids. is there a thread or forum that might have a collection of experiences from people who've used higher ugrids? thanks!

[frihyland]

There is no reason for skyrim to ever use more than around 2GB of RAM unmodded (It was written for 2GB consoles after all), that's like asking why you car doesn't use all your gas to drive a few miles.

 

If you soup up the engine it will use a bit more, and the same with the modifications we are making to the skyrim engine, but there is no reason it should use it all, I would be very worried if it did.  The real question is why would you want to?

 

If it allows you to achieve a tangible goal than you could write your own memory injector for skyrim to use as much as is installed on your board, but skyrim would still function exactly the same way even using 32GB of RAM, unless you rewrote the whole engine.  What are you trying to achieve by using more RAM?  If you're looking for more stability, using all of a certain resource is always a bad idea, you always need a good chunk in reserve to handle unusual events.

[JudgmentJay]

There is no reason for skyrim to ever use more than around 2GB of RAM

Are you talking about unmodded Skyrim? Because modded, Skyrim typically sits anywhere between 2.5-3.2gb of physical RAM usage for me. Textures mods + uGrids=7 alone puts it at about 2.2gb when first loaded. Interface, sound, and gameplay mods bring it up about 300mb more.

[frihyland]

Unmodded, the next paragraph covers modded.

[Necrokat]

i had just read of others who would crash at around 2.3gb ram is why i asked...

https://www.google.com/search?q=skyrim+crash+2.3+ram&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

but it appears it may've been a coincidence. because i nixed those souped up inis and regenerated new Ultra ones w/ no tweaks. and running the same mods (Texture pack Combiner and Monster mod)  i'd still crash at the same spots. except this time i'd only use 1.7-1.8gb ram. guess those super inis were making me use more memory.

i'm positive now my problem is Monster Mod. ugrids=9 just can't handle it. i've had at least 6-7 tests of just running the exterior map for 2+ hours, and no crashes when just using texture combiner and other texture mods. but add Monster mod to the mix and i crash. it's still only that one damnable area tho. the hot springs tundra area south of Windhelm and going up towards Fort Amol. there's 2 spots in that region i usually  crash at. about 8 outta 10 times. the Papyrus logs usually show somethin about "predator.script" so guess it's Momod.

 

i'm thinking of keeping Monster mod and just saving before that area. if i save inside the area, seems i can usually get through it. that or nix Momod. oooor, ugrids=7 can handle both mods. again, i've done numerous whole map runs w/ no crashes at 7. but going to 7 makes me saaad :(

[Necrokat]

Absolutely, fri. Also, don't you ever "piece together" your ini. Just don't. It might work or it might not work but if you ever want a real playthrough of Skyrim, don't use ini-tweaks which you haven't analyzed and tested for yourself, or which are widely recommended and analyzed by e.g. STEP or the Skyrim Tweaking Guide by nVidia.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you have any problems with z-fighting, have you used z-fighting tweaks? If so, which did you use? Have you tried to zone in and out of interiors? Have you encountered exceptionally long loading times? Are you using Open Cities?

hey Torm, as for z-fighting, i've found that this works really well and only 1 setting change...

https://www.gameskyrim.com/lod-understanding-what-see-t225037.html

 

they're wrong tho about no FPS loss. i get a bit of a loss when looking at far away distances, but not as much of a hit as when using your z-fighting tweaks. i use Texture filtering - LOD bias(DX9) set to -1

[torminater]

Are you sure you're talking about z-fighting and not about texture shimmering/aliasing?

[torminater]

Just because this post caught my attention: I tested every possible setting and combination for lod-bias and actual z-fighting was NOT affected at all. It was quite funny to play skyrim with an LOD-Bias set to +3.00

I can recommend to try it. It's 100% anti-step, but very funny.

Edit: If anybody cares enough, I added a video of my testing

[video=youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAVG5JXKoDY

[Valamyr]

Ugrids 7 is the most that the skyrim engine can handle without breaking itself apart. Think of it like severely overclocking your cpu without adding any way to cool off the extra heat generated guaranteed meltdown in due time. Same with skyrim, you are exceeding the intended specs without accounting for the collateral damage.

Is Ugrids 7 still relatively safe, though? To keep using your analogy, I CAN OC my CPU without extra cooling as long as its only a couple hundred Mhz, after all.

[frihyland]

I wouldn't want to associate the words "safe or stable" with any setting other than ugrids=5. That said, if you have a beast of a machine Ugrids=7 should be playable with relatively few ctd's and it does give a significant increase in immersion.