There is brick wall at around 400 mods for FPS stability

[mindw0rk]

After many many hours of testing trying to improve FPS in my heavily modded Skyrim, I realised there is brick wall at some point crossing which will lead to constant stutters and FPS drops. I cant say exact number of mods, but its at about 400. Before hitting this brick wall, game will run well with no severe FPS issues (maybe in very populated areas). If you try to install any mods after reaching the wall, it doesnt matter which mods you add - small patches or new dungeon or follower - even if its just 2 of those it turns from very fluent to almost unplayable due to stutters and FPS drops.

 

I know it doesnt make sence that few tiny innocent mods could suddenly turn stable game into framerate hell, I didnt want to believe it also. But tests showed exactly that. Looks like there is something similar to memory segments that were fixed by Shensen patch, but related to FPS too. 

 

[Aiyen]

I guess it would REALLY help out if you actually had your list in spoiler tags, as well as showing which mods you are adding which is the proverbial drops. 

 

In general you cannot say it like you do however... Even one very extensive 4k texture mod will be able to cause all kinds of stutter on just about all systems and still be the only mod you ever installed. 

The number of mods does not matter... it is what you install that does. Also if you merge your texture mods your mod number most likely go from 400 to 40. 

 

So just to stress it... number of mods is an extremely irrelevant number.. just like saying how big your mod folder is! Since the entire mod folder is never loaded at once! 

[mindw0rk]

Did you ever tested Skyrim with more then 400 mods? Since I was thinking just like you before I went through alot of testing.

 

Few facts:

-When at brick wall, next mods you install wont matter. Any of them start causing stutter and FPS drops.

-Mods inside merged files are counted. So merged file with 50 mods doesnt equal 1 mod, it equals 50 separate mods. And merging everything wont help to improve FPS (in fact I already have like 300 mods merged in few files).

-If you remove merged file, it frees space for alot of non merged mods. Hitting brick wall I removed merged file with like 40 new places and dungeons and could install dozens of mods that didnt cause FPS drops anymore.

-As for your remark about one extensive mod that could cause stutter. I have very stable and fast running game right before brick wall. Add few more mods (i added very different in many combinations) = its now disaster. It also doesnt matter with what mods you reach brick wall. I tried to hit it with very different load orders, its always like that - fluent before wall, stutters after.

Edited March 5, 2015 by mindw0rk

[Gyro]

The STEP team takes a pretty rigorous approach to verifying claims like this.  You'll want to post your mod list for them to get started.

[mindw0rk]

Ok. Although not all mods in this load order are turned on (about 70 are off). Im still experimenting.

About 250 more mods are inside files with MERGED tag.

This is NOT Step or any other guide installation.

Textures are 4k/2k/1k (all normals are 1k, only armors and weapons are 4k) handpicked from different texture packs.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

SMPC.esp

Dawnguard.esm

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp

SMPC_DG.esp

HearthFires.esm

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp

SMPC_HF.esp

Dragonborn.esm

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp

SMPC_DB.esp

Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm

Falskaar.esm

Wyrmstooth.esp

ETaC - RESOURCES.esm

ApachiiHairFemales.esm

ApachiiHair.esm

ApachiiHairMales.esm

DynamicLoot.esm

WinterholdDestruction.esm

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm

RSkyrimChildren.esm

Solstheim Climate Overhaul.esm

SkyMoMod.esm

mannyDragonhead.esm

Dustbound.esm

moonpath.esm

TravellersOfSkyrim.esm

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esm

EFFCore.esm

SMPC Overwrite Fixes.esp

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

UnlimitedBookshelves.esp

WheelsOfLull.esp

Mrissi.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp

BFSEffects.esp

Crafting300.esp

BetterRiften.esp

Cutting Room Floor.esp

HelmetToggle2.02b.esp

FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp

auto unequip ammo.esp

moonpath_questdata.esp

SkyUI.esp

Convenient Horses.esp

Dovahkiin prayer.esp

DeadlyDragons.esp

FireAndIceOverhaul.esp

Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp

UltimateDragons.esp

ImmediateDragons.esp

Hunterborn.esp

BWS.esp

Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp

mintylightningmod.esp

iHUD.esp

Lock Overhaul.esp

Chesko_WearableLantern.esp

Reanimate FX.esp

Ghosu - Weapon Pack 1.esp

SleepTight.esp

TimingIsEverything.esp

TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp

WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp

WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp

You Hunger.esp

BetterDGEntrance.esp

UniqueBorderGates-All.esp

Piratelords Loot Adjustments.esp

Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp

Inconsequential NPCs.esp

DeadlyCombat.esp

SeaPointSettlement.esp

Serenity.esp

konahrik_accoutrements.esp

konahrik_accoutrements_db.esp

Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp

Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp

Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp

Rebirth Monster.esp

ImmersiveSpells.esp

OBIS.esp

OBISDB.esp

Cloaks.esp

Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp

Chesko_Frostfall.esp

SkyRe_Main.esp

Animated Weapon Enchants.esp

Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp

EnchantingAwakened.esp

EnchantingAwakenedSkyRePatch.esp

MERGED_MISC.esp

AOS.esp

AOS2_SkyRe Patch.esp

WetandCold.esp

WetandCold - Ashes.esp

DF127CaranthirTowerMod.esp

MarkarthReachExpEnv-SkyrimBridgeCompatible.esp

EnhancedLightsandFX.esp

ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp

CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp

TTYM - Think to Yourself Messages.esp

Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp

Better Dynamic Snow.esp

3DNPC.esp

KDC - kevinsterable - Deadly Stronger Poisons.esp

Book Covers Skyrim.esp

Weapons & Armor_TrueOrcish&DaedricWeapons.esp

PrinceandPauper.esp

aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp

ImmersiveQuesting.esp

Real Wildlife Skyrim 0.1.esp

SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.esp

Immersive Weapons.esp

SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp

Unique Uniques.esp

Undeath.esp

1nivWICCloaks.esp

ForgottenMagic_Redone.esp

TTYM - Frostfall Module.esp

Apocalypse - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp

Lore Weapon Expansion.esp

Reaper's Landscape - The Dead Forest.esp

AOFoodoverhaul_AllDLC.esp

CookingExpanded.esp

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp

MERGED_Encounters.esp

Hunting in Skyrim - No Perks.esp

Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp

xylozi_tougher_traps.esp

aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp

Inconsequential NPCs - Enhancement.esp

Better Vampires.esp

High Level Enemies - SIC.esp

TradeBarter.esp

Dogs-of-Skyrim.esp

quest_thebiggertheyare.esp

WindstadMine.esp

HeljarchenFarm.esp

quest_nomercy.esp

Grimoire.esp

RealisticRoomRental.esp

Tame Beast.esp

TheChoiceIsYours.esp

SummonFollowers.esp

SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp

Weapons & Armor_DragonPriestMasks.esp

Immersive Sounds - Aural Assortment.esp

EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp

EMViljaInSolstheimAddOn.esp

quest_seaofghosts.esp

tos_laintardale_hf.esp

Daggercross_Alley.esp

DoV.esp

Inigo.esp

SkyRe_Survivalism.esp

Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp

WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp

CommonClothes.esp

SkyRe_StandingStones.esp

EFPbandits-noclothes.esp

DisembarkersDen.esp

EA Skyre Perk Merge.esp

quest_pitfighter.esp

SkyRe_Races.esp

MERGED_Places.esp

MERGED_CCO_Patches.esp

MERGED_DynamicLoot_Patches.esp

Third Era - Dwemer.esp

Altar and Amulets Redone DG+DB.esp

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp

skyforgedShields.esp

quest_sorcery.esp

quest_andtherealmsofdaedra.esp

CompanionArissa.esp

RaceMenu.esp

RaceMenuPlugin.esp

lpbards.esp

ReadingTakesTime.esp

lpbardsanduniel.esp

specializedfollowers.esp

More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp

AK- Buyable Paintings and Pictures.esp

FishingInSkyrim.esp

EFFDialogue.esp

UIExtensions.esp

Painting In Skyrim.esp

Dual Sheath Redux.esp

MzarkWonders.esp

Dwemerverse - Dwarven Magic Package.esp

The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp

Tougher Traps.esp

quest_pitfighter_dlc01.esp

ScottishBanneredMare.esp

iomaungandr rising.esp

BlackHorseCourier.esp

ElisShackPro.esp

My Home Is Your Home.esp

RavenNest_1.2.esp

Immersive Solstheim.esp

Unique Grasses.esp

ETaC - Complete.esp

ETaC - Dragon Bridge South.esp

Purewaters.esp

Skyrim Bridges.esp

Farm Animals_HF.esp

SkyCompleteFull.esp

AH Hotkeys.esp

Serenity SeaPoint DLC Patch.esp

BFT Ships and Carriages.esp

MERGED_BIG.esp

MERGED_PATCHES_ETAC_RND.esp

MERGED_PATCHES_BIG.esp

Tes Vernim Wood.esp

Tes Heralchen Creek.esp

BHTNF_Eli.esp

Expanded Skyrim Weather.esp

DawnofSolitude.esp

ERSO 06 - Wait More Time Dragon Encounter x2.5.esp

ERSO 14.03 - Vendor Soul Gems Only Empty And Very Rare.esp

ERSO 14.05 - Vendor Without Minerals.esp

1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp

SkyRe_SIC Crossbowfix.esp

iDeathDropWeaponChance.esp

konahrik_accoutrements_SkyRe.esp

Skyrim Radioactive.esp

Animallica.esp

Animallica - Real Wildlife Loot.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Pre ReProccer WAFR IA7 IW UU aMidianSS Content Addon Patch.esp

ReProccer.esp

ScrollProccer.esp

SUM.esp

EA Skyre Perk Merge Post Reproccer Patch.esp

qotsafans LeveledLists Patch.esp

Dead_Is_Dead.esp

MERGED_DEC.esp

SkyTweak.esp

NPC_Overhaul_V_1_.esp

MERGED_LAST.esp

MERGED_NPCs.esp

skooma.esp

DeadlyCombat_GiantsAIFix.esp

Skysan_ELFX_SMIM_Fix.esp

stranger_danger.esp

RSChildren_PatchStrangerDanger.esp

Edited March 5, 2015 by mindw0rk

[Aiyen]

Again.. please try to come with some concrete information. Also a mod list, not a load order. The load order is by definition capped at 255.. so you would have to merge at least some of all those mods. So info on what is inside your merged patches would also be appreciated.

 

I am sure there are plenty of other people who will find this really interesting. Not many people care to go about and try to actually do lists that large. 

 

Also it would matter if a mod is just a texture mod or an .esp mod. 

 

I refuse to believe that you can produce a list where if you just add ONE more texture replacement that it will suddenly all go to hell (again assuming you do not add like a 4k pack of doom or even a 2k one... in general I assume your memory useage is within limits)... if you add one more .esp then yes I might be inclined to believe that there is perhaps a sort of upper limit to just how complex you can make your list. 

 

Btw. If that entire list can run stable then hats off to you... I would love to see the video of the stress test on that badboy! Also the amount of time it would most likely take to even load and startup a game and wait for all the scripts to settle down. 

[mindw0rk]

I didnt say anything about texture replacement, its all about esp/esm. I think at some point when engine is overloaded with specific amount of mods something breaks there. Just like it was with memory before Shensen released memory patch. I wanted to hear, maybe someone also has big compilation and experienced this.

 

I have SSD so game loads fast and I optimized scripts turning off some stuff in MCM and removing mods like Footsteps, so there isnt much lag.

There is old video btw. I made it last summer, so its pretty outdated and it was way beyond brick wall, so its stuttering like crazy outdoors. I now have different ENB, grass and cities look different and load list changed abit. Still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qppc4J9xcNQ

Edited March 5, 2015 by mindw0rk

[DoubleYou]

Um... yes... 400 esps is going to kill it... :confused:

[GrantSP]

I think there is a language barrier or a misuse of definitions happening here.

 

400 plugins active in a game! I don't think so.

 

You say 250 mods are "inside files with MERGED tag". Presumably you are talking about records that are now cared for in your bashed patch or even a merged patch. Again, doing this does not mean you have those 250 plugins loaded there is now just the one bashed/merged patch. So the original 400 now is 151. 400 original plugins minus those merged equals 150, plus the bashed/merged patch equals 151.

[Aiyen]

Well makes sense that eventually there is just too much stuff in individual cells for the engine to handle. Even if you merged everything back down into the main .esm you would most likely still have so many new additions that it is just too much. 

 

Funny if it is any .esp that cause it and not specific ones however. 

 

Again I am sure someone else here is equally crazy with large builds, but it would help with more detailed information, like what is inside your merges etc.