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mindw0rk

There is brick wall at around 400 mods for FPS stability

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After many many hours of testing trying to improve FPS in my heavily modded Skyrim, I realised there is brick wall at some point crossing which will lead to constant stutters and FPS drops. I cant say exact number of mods, but its at about 400. Before hitting this brick wall, game will run well with no severe FPS issues (maybe in very populated areas). If you try to install any mods after reaching the wall, it doesnt matter which mods you add - small patches or new dungeon or follower - even if its just 2 of those it turns from very fluent to almost unplayable due to stutters and FPS drops.

 

I know it doesnt make sence that few tiny innocent mods could suddenly turn stable game into framerate hell, I didnt want to believe it also. But tests showed exactly that. Looks like there is something similar to memory segments that were fixed by Shensen patch, but related to FPS too. 

 

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I guess it would REALLY help out if you actually had your list in spoiler tags, as well as showing which mods you are adding which is the proverbial drops. 

 

In general you cannot say it like you do however... Even one very extensive 4k texture mod will be able to cause all kinds of stutter on just about all systems and still be the only mod you ever installed. 

The number of mods does not matter... it is what you install that does. Also if you merge your texture mods your mod number most likely go from 400 to 40. 

 

So just to stress it... number of mods is an extremely irrelevant number.. just like saying how big your mod folder is! Since the entire mod folder is never loaded at once! 

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Did you ever tested Skyrim with more then 400 mods? Since I was thinking just like you before I went through alot of testing.

 

Few facts:

-When at brick wall, next mods you install wont matter. Any of them start causing stutter and FPS drops.

-Mods inside merged files are counted. So merged file with 50 mods doesnt equal 1 mod, it equals 50 separate mods. And merging everything wont help to improve FPS (in fact I already have like 300 mods merged in few files).

-If you remove merged file, it frees space for alot of non merged mods. Hitting brick wall I removed merged file with like 40 new places and dungeons and could install dozens of mods that didnt cause FPS drops anymore.

-As for your remark about one extensive mod that could cause stutter. I have very stable and fast running game right before brick wall. Add few more mods (i added very different in many combinations) = its now disaster. It also doesnt matter with what mods you reach brick wall. I tried to hit it with very different load orders, its always like that - fluent before wall, stutters after.

Edited by mindw0rk

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The STEP team takes a pretty rigorous approach to verifying claims like this.  You'll want to post your mod list for them to get started.

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Ok. Although not all mods in this load order are turned on (about 70 are off). Im still experimenting.

About 250 more mods are inside files with MERGED tag.

This is NOT Step or any other guide installation.

Textures are 4k/2k/1k (all normals are 1k, only armors and weapons are 4k) handpicked from different texture packs.

 

 

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
SMPC.esp
Dawnguard.esm
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
SMPC_DG.esp
HearthFires.esm
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
SMPC_HF.esp
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
SMPC_DB.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
ETaC - RESOURCES.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairMales.esm
DynamicLoot.esm
WinterholdDestruction.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
RSkyrimChildren.esm
Solstheim Climate Overhaul.esm
SkyMoMod.esm
mannyDragonhead.esm
Dustbound.esm
moonpath.esm
TravellersOfSkyrim.esm
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esm
EFFCore.esm
SMPC Overwrite Fixes.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
UnlimitedBookshelves.esp
WheelsOfLull.esp
Mrissi.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
BFSEffects.esp
Crafting300.esp
BetterRiften.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
HelmetToggle2.02b.esp
FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp
auto unequip ammo.esp
moonpath_questdata.esp
SkyUI.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
Dovahkiin prayer.esp
DeadlyDragons.esp
FireAndIceOverhaul.esp
Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp
UltimateDragons.esp
ImmediateDragons.esp
Hunterborn.esp
BWS.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
iHUD.esp
Lock Overhaul.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
Reanimate FX.esp
Ghosu - Weapon Pack 1.esp
SleepTight.esp
TimingIsEverything.esp
TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp
WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp
WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp
You Hunger.esp
BetterDGEntrance.esp
UniqueBorderGates-All.esp
Piratelords Loot Adjustments.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
Inconsequential NPCs.esp
DeadlyCombat.esp
SeaPointSettlement.esp
Serenity.esp
konahrik_accoutrements.esp
konahrik_accoutrements_db.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Rebirth Monster.esp
ImmersiveSpells.esp
OBIS.esp
OBISDB.esp
Cloaks.esp
Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
Chesko_Frostfall.esp
SkyRe_Main.esp
Animated Weapon Enchants.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
EnchantingAwakened.esp
EnchantingAwakenedSkyRePatch.esp
MERGED_MISC.esp
AOS.esp
AOS2_SkyRe Patch.esp
WetandCold.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
DF127CaranthirTowerMod.esp
MarkarthReachExpEnv-SkyrimBridgeCompatible.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp
CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
TTYM - Think to Yourself Messages.esp
Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp
Better Dynamic Snow.esp
3DNPC.esp
KDC - kevinsterable - Deadly Stronger Poisons.esp
Book Covers Skyrim.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueOrcish&DaedricWeapons.esp
PrinceandPauper.esp
aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp
ImmersiveQuesting.esp
Real Wildlife Skyrim 0.1.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
Undeath.esp
1nivWICCloaks.esp
ForgottenMagic_Redone.esp
TTYM - Frostfall Module.esp
Apocalypse - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp
Lore Weapon Expansion.esp
Reaper's Landscape - The Dead Forest.esp
AOFoodoverhaul_AllDLC.esp
CookingExpanded.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
MERGED_Encounters.esp
Hunting in Skyrim - No Perks.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
xylozi_tougher_traps.esp
aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp
Inconsequential NPCs - Enhancement.esp
Better Vampires.esp
High Level Enemies - SIC.esp
TradeBarter.esp
Dogs-of-Skyrim.esp
quest_thebiggertheyare.esp
WindstadMine.esp
HeljarchenFarm.esp
quest_nomercy.esp
Grimoire.esp
RealisticRoomRental.esp
Tame Beast.esp
TheChoiceIsYours.esp
SummonFollowers.esp
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
Weapons & Armor_DragonPriestMasks.esp
Immersive Sounds - Aural Assortment.esp
EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
EMViljaInSolstheimAddOn.esp
quest_seaofghosts.esp
tos_laintardale_hf.esp
Daggercross_Alley.esp
DoV.esp
Inigo.esp
SkyRe_Survivalism.esp
Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp
WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp
CommonClothes.esp
SkyRe_StandingStones.esp
EFPbandits-noclothes.esp
DisembarkersDen.esp
EA Skyre Perk Merge.esp
quest_pitfighter.esp
SkyRe_Races.esp
MERGED_Places.esp
MERGED_CCO_Patches.esp
MERGED_DynamicLoot_Patches.esp
Third Era - Dwemer.esp
Altar and Amulets Redone DG+DB.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
skyforgedShields.esp
quest_sorcery.esp
quest_andtherealmsofdaedra.esp
CompanionArissa.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
lpbards.esp
ReadingTakesTime.esp
lpbardsanduniel.esp
specializedfollowers.esp
More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
AK- Buyable Paintings and Pictures.esp
FishingInSkyrim.esp
EFFDialogue.esp
UIExtensions.esp
Painting In Skyrim.esp
Dual Sheath Redux.esp
MzarkWonders.esp
Dwemerverse - Dwarven Magic Package.esp
The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp
Tougher Traps.esp
quest_pitfighter_dlc01.esp
ScottishBanneredMare.esp
iomaungandr rising.esp
BlackHorseCourier.esp
ElisShackPro.esp
My Home Is Your Home.esp
RavenNest_1.2.esp
Immersive Solstheim.esp
Unique Grasses.esp
ETaC - Complete.esp
ETaC - Dragon Bridge South.esp
Purewaters.esp
Skyrim Bridges.esp
Farm Animals_HF.esp
SkyCompleteFull.esp
AH Hotkeys.esp
Serenity SeaPoint DLC Patch.esp
BFT Ships and Carriages.esp
MERGED_BIG.esp
MERGED_PATCHES_ETAC_RND.esp
MERGED_PATCHES_BIG.esp
Tes Vernim Wood.esp
Tes Heralchen Creek.esp
BHTNF_Eli.esp
Expanded Skyrim Weather.esp
DawnofSolitude.esp
ERSO 06 - Wait More Time Dragon Encounter x2.5.esp
ERSO 14.03 - Vendor Soul Gems Only Empty And Very Rare.esp
ERSO 14.05 - Vendor Without Minerals.esp
1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp
SkyRe_SIC Crossbowfix.esp
iDeathDropWeaponChance.esp
konahrik_accoutrements_SkyRe.esp
Skyrim Radioactive.esp
Animallica.esp
Animallica - Real Wildlife Loot.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Pre ReProccer WAFR IA7 IW UU aMidianSS Content Addon Patch.esp
ReProccer.esp
ScrollProccer.esp
SUM.esp
EA Skyre Perk Merge Post Reproccer Patch.esp
qotsafans LeveledLists Patch.esp
Dead_Is_Dead.esp
MERGED_DEC.esp
SkyTweak.esp
NPC_Overhaul_V_1_.esp
MERGED_LAST.esp
MERGED_NPCs.esp
skooma.esp
DeadlyCombat_GiantsAIFix.esp
Skysan_ELFX_SMIM_Fix.esp
stranger_danger.esp
RSChildren_PatchStrangerDanger.esp

Edited by mindw0rk

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Again.. please try to come with some concrete information. Also a mod list, not a load order. The load order is by definition capped at 255.. so you would have to merge at least some of all those mods. So info on what is inside your merged patches would also be appreciated.

 

I am sure there are plenty of other people who will find this really interesting. Not many people care to go about and try to actually do lists that large. 

 

Also it would matter if a mod is just a texture mod or an .esp mod. 

 

I refuse to believe that you can produce a list where if you just add ONE more texture replacement that it will suddenly all go to hell (again assuming you do not add like a 4k pack of doom or even a 2k one... in general I assume your memory useage is within limits)... if you add one more .esp then yes I might be inclined to believe that there is perhaps a sort of upper limit to just how complex you can make your list. 

 

Btw. If that entire list can run stable then hats off to you... I would love to see the video of the stress test on that badboy! Also the amount of time it would most likely take to even load and startup a game and wait for all the scripts to settle down. 

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I didnt say anything about texture replacement, its all about esp/esm. I think at some point when engine is overloaded with specific amount of mods something breaks there. Just like it was with memory before Shensen released memory patch. I wanted to hear, maybe someone also has big compilation and experienced this.

 

I have SSD so game loads fast and I optimized scripts turning off some stuff in MCM and removing mods like Footsteps, so there isnt much lag.

There is old video btw. I made it last summer, so its pretty outdated and it was way beyond brick wall, so its stuttering like crazy outdoors. I now have different ENB, grass and cities look different and load list changed abit. Still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qppc4J9xcNQ

Edited by mindw0rk

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I think there is a language barrier or a misuse of definitions happening here.

 

400 plugins active in a game! I don't think so.

 

You say 250 mods are "inside files with MERGED tag". Presumably you are talking about records that are now cared for in your bashed patch or even a merged patch. Again, doing this does not mean you have those 250 plugins loaded there is now just the one bashed/merged patch. So the original 400 now is 151. 400 original plugins minus those merged equals 150, plus the bashed/merged patch equals 151.

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Well makes sense that eventually there is just too much stuff in individual cells for the engine to handle. Even if you merged everything back down into the main .esm you would most likely still have so many new additions that it is just too much. 

 

Funny if it is any .esp that cause it and not specific ones however. 

 

Again I am sure someone else here is equally crazy with large builds, but it would help with more detailed information, like what is inside your merges etc. 

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